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Jersey8five6
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http://www.pmpworldwide.com/articles.cfm?contentID=33D83797-9C2A-7956-2024A69473014305
Shalik Berry/Roc-A-Fella/Def Jam - Director of A&R
Thanks to recent advances in digital technology the power once again is in the hands of the music consumer. Success in the entertainment business requires a near perfect marriage between the content creator's ability to consistently make hit sonic expressions and their desire to enrich the lives of listeners. In 2007 it's all about the interactive experience! With that in mind let us focus on an industry vet who values the "grind" over the "shine" while mastering the tight rope act of maintaining artistic integrity and meeting commercial expectations. Take a few notes from Shalik Berry, Director of A&R at Roc-A-Fella/Def Jam as we talk about family, rivalries and success.
Introduce yourself to the PMP community and run down some of the artists that are currently under your watch?
What's good PMP this is Shalik Berry, Director of A&R over at Roc-A-Fella/Def Jam. I've been with Def Jam officially for about three years. I was at Roc-A-Fella for about 3 years prior to that working in the same building. Right now on my plate I got Freeway, Juelz Santana, Mannie Fresh and I recently finished up Chrisette Michele.
Where are you from originally and how did you get your feet wet in the business?
I was born and raised in Harlem. I got introduced to the game from my older brother Kareem "Biggs" Burke who helped start Roc-A-Fella Records along with Jay Z and Dame Dash while I was in high school. He showed me how it was possible to succeed in the game by starting your own business and doing your thing.
I started managing artists when I was around 19, 20 with another partner. We had Juelz Santana back in the days when he was in a group that was signed to Priority Records. I also used to work with a group name Screwball, Kamikaze who were on Warner Bros and Bathgate who had a deal at Virgin. Even though I had a brother working in the business I didn't really understand how things worked until I took a crash course by going out on my own.
So despite the break up of Roc-a-Fella which resulted in Biggs and Dame leaving the label you still stayed with the Roc
Yea when Jay got the position at Def Jam he asked me to come over with him.
Was there any conflict between you and your brother due to you working with Jay?
No not at all because when it comes down to it my brother is always going to be my brother so he understood and respected my decision in regards to my career. There wasn't much of an elevator over at Roc-A-Fella so after a couple of years so it was a natural progression to move on to Def Jam.
Now, on top of that, you have Juelz Santana who is down with Dip Set, a brand that is known to have their differences with Jay Z. From the outside looking in one may view your position as a difficult one
It may look like that from the outsider's perspective but when it comes to putting in work as an A&R it's all about dealing with someone you can trust, someone who respects your opinion which Juelz does. At the end of the day I do work for Island/Def Jam and he is an artist under Island/Def Jam and he felt that I was the best person for his project.
As far as Jay he's a businessman so he wants whatever is right to be right. So whatever issues he may have with Cam or Jim Jones he will handle it the best way he see fits while my job is to continue working with Juelz and making sure the project comes out tight. Right now it's all pretty much water under the bridge, I'm from Harlem so I know those dudes and that plays a factor as well.
What separates the fans of the music, who will always believe they know what's hot, from the professional A&R who is paid to know that very thing? There are quite a few armchair A&Rs out there nowadays.
It's all about balance. To be a good A&R you have to keep the fan aspect in tact. I'm still a fan and I purchase everybody's CD. After I leave the office I'll go check out some independent acts because it's important not to lose that experience. You have to understand there are different levels to an artist's career and you have to be able to attack all of them to be effective.
The other day I was having a conversation with Juelz and I told him "man this is your third album...this one gets you the 4th and 5th, so its more than just finding a hot beat or worrying about everybody that's currently on the radio because that doesn't represent you as an artist". You have to hit that certain "nerve" in your audience to make them fall in love with your work and wonder what would you (the artist) do if you were in a certain situation, one that they may be going through at the moment. So the 1st album they'll give to you, the 2nd album you'll get off the 1st one unless you completely bomb out and the 3rd is the growth.
Every producer and/or artist at one time or another throws a dart at the A&R, whether justified or not. What's your take on the criticism often aimed at the A&R's.
Man there's a lot of pressure! You may have a record that a certain demographic can relate to but your objective is to go beyond the core in order to have the success you want, and that's the difficult part. Then you have the business side... those L.A. Reid meetings are brutal! You go in there and play some wack sh*t you'll be getting attacked immediately! At the end of the day everybody thinks they're hot and that's simply not the truth.
On top of that everybody has an opinion. Sometimes you have to take a real look at yourself and ask the question "am I really hot and the A&R just doesn't get it, or am I just trying to get one over on the A&R".
Talk about budget considerations is the modern era
Yeah getting your budget from the Legal Department and trying to work within your allocated means doesn't always happen. If I don't then I'm going to get slack from certain departments which makes a project more difficult to manage. If you get 800,000 as your budget your goal is to come under that. If however you go for a reforecast and ask for additional bread you better have some real sh*t on your hands as far as single material.
Do you feel pressured to come up with a "ringtone hit" since, for some artist, the ringtone winds up being the biggest revenue source for their project?
I just try to come with great music. There's only a certain demographic that buys ringtones aggressively, so in my opinion its better to make records with substance that can help get people through their day because that's the larger audience. If I do hear something that's catchy and I think it may work as a ringtone I'll make sure to point it out to the Ringtone Department, but I'm not going into the creative process with the intention of creating a song that can work as a ringtone. I believe ringtones are more of a fad than a long term solution.
A lot of people are getting laid off at the labels right now and, unlike let's say 15 years ago, there aren't as many open couches where you can land a seat. How does this climate effect of your approach?
It only takes a couple of wrong moves to get your head chopped off, it's not like the video game industry where you lose a little energy and then you gain it back. There is a certain formula to putting together a great album and I try to attack that formula rather than attempt to pile up a gang of hits. On top of that I try to keep up with the latest, as far as music the fans like, because ultimately it's up to them.
Talk about the new Freeway track "Big Spender" featuring Jay-Z
It was a type of track that had a lot of energy to it which I felt would allow Freeway to have some fun but at the same time still be within his means. When Hov came to the studio he started mumbling, and when he starts doing that you know to get the mic ready because its about to go down. So Jay laid his verse down and it was the perfect compliment because who does more big spending than that dude? That track represents what Roc-A-Fella was built on, from the champagne bottle in the logo to when Dame and Biggs was with the Roc back in the days with the money and girls. So that's why I picked that track, shout to Dame Grease on the production.
With Jay Z being your boss as well as an artist that you work with in the studio how does the relationship work?
As a business man he's real open minded as far as the music we have here at Def Jam because he understands it's not only about his opinion and that's it. He gives us leeway as far as telling him what's really popping out there so you have to respect him for that.
What advice would you give to the producers in terms of pricing?
For new producers I feel they should try to get on as much **** as possible so people can notice them and they can build a reputation for putting out hot music. I've dealt with certain new producers that ask for 20k out the gate and it's like "what have you done to demand this amount?" You're going to get your royalty points off the record and all that so instead of focusing on the big money, focus on getting hot in the game and then you will be in better position to ask for what you think you deserve.
In this day and age the artists don't have much of a preference on who produces the track. Juelz for example doesn't really care, he just wants the heat so my job is to get as many tracks as possible that are fire and try to give the album a certain unique sound to it. As a producer you have to build a reputation so when someone needs that heat your name comes to mind.
Would you recommend to a new artist to get a veteran to feature on their track?
If you're an established artist and you have built in relationships and you put, for example, Lil Wayne on your record and it fits then I'm good with that. If, however, you're just using Lil Wayne in hopes of getting attention drawn to you then that's not the smartest move. Even if the record is hot people are going to give the credit to Lil Wayne not you. This may only work if the follow up record is some incredible sh*t but if you don't have that in your arsenal then your impact will be limited. In my opinion it's better to keep the focus on you and what you have to offer as an artist. A lot artist don't have enough confidence in themselves nowadays.
Is success more than just a "hit" record?
Having a great record is half the battle. You need the personality, the ability to sell it, image, just the whole aura. I can't just listen to one record and come to the conclusion that "alright this dude right here is the ONE!". I'll go visit the artist and see if they got the complete package. It might be a thing where the image is right but they don't have any star power about themselves. You don't have to be a star but then that means you're going to have to bomb me with a bunch of hot records, not just one.
Some people just freeze up. They'll call me all day asking me what's good and I'll ask them to send me some more records and they'll be like "alright cool". A week later they'll call back again asking to meet up and I'll ask for some records and they never come through because they're afraid they can't top the first one they let me hear. You have to make me a believer.
How do you detox from the business side and remain a fan of the music?
That's a great question. Let me first say I don't think a lot of A&R's are fans of the music and that's just me keeping it 100% real. For me I don't get too caught up in the hype of the game, I just try to do my job, go to a few parties here and there, shake a few hands and then keep it moving.
But to get back to the question yes it's hard because as soon as you hear a record you always dissect it trying to figure out why you like the record so much. Is it the melody or the chorus? Why is the high hats so loud, etc...? There's always a "why" attached to it but I credit my other brother Hip Hop (head of Urban Music/Columbia Records) for showing me how to stay a fan of the music. He'll play me some underground **** like MF Doom all day. In his office he got MF Doom dolls and sneakers and that's just him being fan despite his executive position. You have to allow the creative process to flow without always thinking about how you can make money off the sound.
In your opinion where should the focus be in regards to the future of the music business?
I think people need to bring the focus back to the actual music. How do people find out about dope new music nowadays? Radio stations play the same songs over and over. The video outlets don't play nearly as much hip hop music as they used to play. We don't have The Box anymore so we need to put our minds together and come up with better way for the fans to get exposed to new hot music.
What's in the future for Shalik Berry?
I'm going to come up with as many hits and good ideas as possible. I went to school for marketing so since I already understand a lot on the music side I will like to help out more on the marketing side and create a marketing consulting company that can bridge some of the gaps. I also have a couple of artists I'm working with and in the future I want to put some more attention on that as well.
We'll end the interview with 3 yes or no questions.
#1 does an artist need to come to the door with radio spins in order to get your co-sign?
No
#2 does a producer need to have a proper mix down on a track they present to you?
It should be but no, not mandatory
#3 will we ever see a hip hop record sell 3 million copies again?
Yes definitely!
Any guidance for the producers submitting to the Juelz project?
Don't bring a beat to an A&R that sounds like something that's already out in the market because the A&R can easily get it from the producer that originated that sound. Come with originality and character at all times and you will be good.
Thanks to recent advances in digital technology the power once again is in the hands of the music consumer. Success in the entertainment business requires a near perfect marriage between the content creator's ability to consistently make hit sonic expressions and their desire to enrich the lives of listeners. In 2007 it's all about the interactive experience! With that in mind let us focus on an industry vet who values the "grind" over the "shine" while mastering the tight rope act of maintaining artistic integrity and meeting commercial expectations. Take a few notes from Shalik Berry, Director of A&R at Roc-A-Fella/Def Jam as we talk about family, rivalries and success.
Introduce yourself to the PMP community and run down some of the artists that are currently under your watch?
What's good PMP this is Shalik Berry, Director of A&R over at Roc-A-Fella/Def Jam. I've been with Def Jam officially for about three years. I was at Roc-A-Fella for about 3 years prior to that working in the same building. Right now on my plate I got Freeway, Juelz Santana, Mannie Fresh and I recently finished up Chrisette Michele.
Where are you from originally and how did you get your feet wet in the business?
I was born and raised in Harlem. I got introduced to the game from my older brother Kareem "Biggs" Burke who helped start Roc-A-Fella Records along with Jay Z and Dame Dash while I was in high school. He showed me how it was possible to succeed in the game by starting your own business and doing your thing.
I started managing artists when I was around 19, 20 with another partner. We had Juelz Santana back in the days when he was in a group that was signed to Priority Records. I also used to work with a group name Screwball, Kamikaze who were on Warner Bros and Bathgate who had a deal at Virgin. Even though I had a brother working in the business I didn't really understand how things worked until I took a crash course by going out on my own.
So despite the break up of Roc-a-Fella which resulted in Biggs and Dame leaving the label you still stayed with the Roc
Yea when Jay got the position at Def Jam he asked me to come over with him.
Was there any conflict between you and your brother due to you working with Jay?
No not at all because when it comes down to it my brother is always going to be my brother so he understood and respected my decision in regards to my career. There wasn't much of an elevator over at Roc-A-Fella so after a couple of years so it was a natural progression to move on to Def Jam.
Now, on top of that, you have Juelz Santana who is down with Dip Set, a brand that is known to have their differences with Jay Z. From the outside looking in one may view your position as a difficult one
It may look like that from the outsider's perspective but when it comes to putting in work as an A&R it's all about dealing with someone you can trust, someone who respects your opinion which Juelz does. At the end of the day I do work for Island/Def Jam and he is an artist under Island/Def Jam and he felt that I was the best person for his project.
As far as Jay he's a businessman so he wants whatever is right to be right. So whatever issues he may have with Cam or Jim Jones he will handle it the best way he see fits while my job is to continue working with Juelz and making sure the project comes out tight. Right now it's all pretty much water under the bridge, I'm from Harlem so I know those dudes and that plays a factor as well.
What separates the fans of the music, who will always believe they know what's hot, from the professional A&R who is paid to know that very thing? There are quite a few armchair A&Rs out there nowadays.
It's all about balance. To be a good A&R you have to keep the fan aspect in tact. I'm still a fan and I purchase everybody's CD. After I leave the office I'll go check out some independent acts because it's important not to lose that experience. You have to understand there are different levels to an artist's career and you have to be able to attack all of them to be effective.
The other day I was having a conversation with Juelz and I told him "man this is your third album...this one gets you the 4th and 5th, so its more than just finding a hot beat or worrying about everybody that's currently on the radio because that doesn't represent you as an artist". You have to hit that certain "nerve" in your audience to make them fall in love with your work and wonder what would you (the artist) do if you were in a certain situation, one that they may be going through at the moment. So the 1st album they'll give to you, the 2nd album you'll get off the 1st one unless you completely bomb out and the 3rd is the growth.
Every producer and/or artist at one time or another throws a dart at the A&R, whether justified or not. What's your take on the criticism often aimed at the A&R's.
Man there's a lot of pressure! You may have a record that a certain demographic can relate to but your objective is to go beyond the core in order to have the success you want, and that's the difficult part. Then you have the business side... those L.A. Reid meetings are brutal! You go in there and play some wack sh*t you'll be getting attacked immediately! At the end of the day everybody thinks they're hot and that's simply not the truth.
On top of that everybody has an opinion. Sometimes you have to take a real look at yourself and ask the question "am I really hot and the A&R just doesn't get it, or am I just trying to get one over on the A&R".
Talk about budget considerations is the modern era
Yeah getting your budget from the Legal Department and trying to work within your allocated means doesn't always happen. If I don't then I'm going to get slack from certain departments which makes a project more difficult to manage. If you get 800,000 as your budget your goal is to come under that. If however you go for a reforecast and ask for additional bread you better have some real sh*t on your hands as far as single material.
Do you feel pressured to come up with a "ringtone hit" since, for some artist, the ringtone winds up being the biggest revenue source for their project?
I just try to come with great music. There's only a certain demographic that buys ringtones aggressively, so in my opinion its better to make records with substance that can help get people through their day because that's the larger audience. If I do hear something that's catchy and I think it may work as a ringtone I'll make sure to point it out to the Ringtone Department, but I'm not going into the creative process with the intention of creating a song that can work as a ringtone. I believe ringtones are more of a fad than a long term solution.
A lot of people are getting laid off at the labels right now and, unlike let's say 15 years ago, there aren't as many open couches where you can land a seat. How does this climate effect of your approach?
It only takes a couple of wrong moves to get your head chopped off, it's not like the video game industry where you lose a little energy and then you gain it back. There is a certain formula to putting together a great album and I try to attack that formula rather than attempt to pile up a gang of hits. On top of that I try to keep up with the latest, as far as music the fans like, because ultimately it's up to them.
Talk about the new Freeway track "Big Spender" featuring Jay-Z
It was a type of track that had a lot of energy to it which I felt would allow Freeway to have some fun but at the same time still be within his means. When Hov came to the studio he started mumbling, and when he starts doing that you know to get the mic ready because its about to go down. So Jay laid his verse down and it was the perfect compliment because who does more big spending than that dude? That track represents what Roc-A-Fella was built on, from the champagne bottle in the logo to when Dame and Biggs was with the Roc back in the days with the money and girls. So that's why I picked that track, shout to Dame Grease on the production.
With Jay Z being your boss as well as an artist that you work with in the studio how does the relationship work?
As a business man he's real open minded as far as the music we have here at Def Jam because he understands it's not only about his opinion and that's it. He gives us leeway as far as telling him what's really popping out there so you have to respect him for that.
What advice would you give to the producers in terms of pricing?
For new producers I feel they should try to get on as much **** as possible so people can notice them and they can build a reputation for putting out hot music. I've dealt with certain new producers that ask for 20k out the gate and it's like "what have you done to demand this amount?" You're going to get your royalty points off the record and all that so instead of focusing on the big money, focus on getting hot in the game and then you will be in better position to ask for what you think you deserve.
In this day and age the artists don't have much of a preference on who produces the track. Juelz for example doesn't really care, he just wants the heat so my job is to get as many tracks as possible that are fire and try to give the album a certain unique sound to it. As a producer you have to build a reputation so when someone needs that heat your name comes to mind.
Would you recommend to a new artist to get a veteran to feature on their track?
If you're an established artist and you have built in relationships and you put, for example, Lil Wayne on your record and it fits then I'm good with that. If, however, you're just using Lil Wayne in hopes of getting attention drawn to you then that's not the smartest move. Even if the record is hot people are going to give the credit to Lil Wayne not you. This may only work if the follow up record is some incredible sh*t but if you don't have that in your arsenal then your impact will be limited. In my opinion it's better to keep the focus on you and what you have to offer as an artist. A lot artist don't have enough confidence in themselves nowadays.
Is success more than just a "hit" record?
Having a great record is half the battle. You need the personality, the ability to sell it, image, just the whole aura. I can't just listen to one record and come to the conclusion that "alright this dude right here is the ONE!". I'll go visit the artist and see if they got the complete package. It might be a thing where the image is right but they don't have any star power about themselves. You don't have to be a star but then that means you're going to have to bomb me with a bunch of hot records, not just one.
Some people just freeze up. They'll call me all day asking me what's good and I'll ask them to send me some more records and they'll be like "alright cool". A week later they'll call back again asking to meet up and I'll ask for some records and they never come through because they're afraid they can't top the first one they let me hear. You have to make me a believer.
How do you detox from the business side and remain a fan of the music?
That's a great question. Let me first say I don't think a lot of A&R's are fans of the music and that's just me keeping it 100% real. For me I don't get too caught up in the hype of the game, I just try to do my job, go to a few parties here and there, shake a few hands and then keep it moving.
But to get back to the question yes it's hard because as soon as you hear a record you always dissect it trying to figure out why you like the record so much. Is it the melody or the chorus? Why is the high hats so loud, etc...? There's always a "why" attached to it but I credit my other brother Hip Hop (head of Urban Music/Columbia Records) for showing me how to stay a fan of the music. He'll play me some underground **** like MF Doom all day. In his office he got MF Doom dolls and sneakers and that's just him being fan despite his executive position. You have to allow the creative process to flow without always thinking about how you can make money off the sound.
In your opinion where should the focus be in regards to the future of the music business?
I think people need to bring the focus back to the actual music. How do people find out about dope new music nowadays? Radio stations play the same songs over and over. The video outlets don't play nearly as much hip hop music as they used to play. We don't have The Box anymore so we need to put our minds together and come up with better way for the fans to get exposed to new hot music.
What's in the future for Shalik Berry?
I'm going to come up with as many hits and good ideas as possible. I went to school for marketing so since I already understand a lot on the music side I will like to help out more on the marketing side and create a marketing consulting company that can bridge some of the gaps. I also have a couple of artists I'm working with and in the future I want to put some more attention on that as well.
We'll end the interview with 3 yes or no questions.
#1 does an artist need to come to the door with radio spins in order to get your co-sign?
No
#2 does a producer need to have a proper mix down on a track they present to you?
It should be but no, not mandatory
#3 will we ever see a hip hop record sell 3 million copies again?
Yes definitely!
Any guidance for the producers submitting to the Juelz project?
Don't bring a beat to an A&R that sounds like something that's already out in the market because the A&R can easily get it from the producer that originated that sound. Come with originality and character at all times and you will be good.
