Low end frequency cutting. Is it good or bad?

[mouthpieceprod]

I have read allot of forums about mixing and mastering. Ive even seen some that said that cutting the low end frequency is essential. But my question is just how essential is cutting the low end? I hear lots of songs with everything in the low end range cut from vocals to the bass in the track and it makes the mix sound flat to me. But I would like some thoughts and insights on the ranges for low end frequency range cutting. what are the dos and don't from the experts!

 

[bandcoach]

it has its place in the grand scheme

however, you have to understand what a hi-pass filter (aka low-cut) will actually do and understand what you should select as your corner frequency (frequency at which it begins to act) so as to address your needs

as an example setting your corner frequency at 150Hz for a guitar is short-sighted as this is almost an octave above the lowest note on a standard tuned six string guitar (82Hz more or less), better to set the freq at 100Hz and have little affect on the bottom 3 notes (F#/Gb, F, E)

to use a 150Hz corner freq on a bass guitar would be doubly short-sighted as a 4 string goes down to 41Hz, on 5 and 6 string basses it can go down to 31Hz or even 24.5Hz

Vocalists have their root note range as follows

Voice type	Root note range	Notes
Bass	98Hz - 293Hz	G[sub]1[/sub] - D[sub]3[/sub]
Tenor	130Hz - 392Hz	C[sub]1[/sub] - G[sub]3[/sub]
Alto	196Hz - 586Hz	G[sub]2[/sub] - D[sub]4[/sub]
Soprano	260Hz - 784Hz	C[sub]3[/sub] - G[sub]4[/sub]

their overtones (harmonics) can go up to 8kHz and beyond

what i am suggesting is that you carefully balance the need to eliminate unwanted material (frequencies that will not be present whatsoever in the signal) with maintaining the frequencies that define a particular instruments sound qualities

note on octave ranges
Middle C = MIDI note number 60 = C[sub]3[/sub] in most daws = C[sub]5[/sub] in BiaB and FL

 

[Yumid]

There are multiple scenarios for cutting the low end but the main on, and the one you're probably referring to, is just to reduce muddiness. If you look at a sound on a spectrum analyzer you will clearly see the first fundamental. But before that youll see some waveforms lower down in the low end that are still on the spectrum analyzer even though you cant hear anything below the first fundamental tone(the first peak from left to right on the spectrum analyzer). So even though you cant hear all that low frequency information, its still there. As you add more tracks it'll build up and create a muddy sound in your low end. So if you high pass all your track at either 150hz+ or the first fundamental, it'll cut all that low stuff out so it cant build up.

Long story short, the point of doing it is basically to solve a problem before it becomes a problem.

The only things I DONT cut at 150+ or the first fundamental are kick and bass. For Kick Ill cut it at about 40-60hz depending on the kick, then leave below that all for Sub bass. Then for bass you can just do whatever you need to do for the bass. Maybe youll Split it up so one bass is 50-150, then maybe have a sub bass below 50 and have that the only thing below 50..then maybe you have a character bass thats goes from 150-400. Or maybe you just have one bass spanning all the way from 20-30hz to 500 side chained to your kick.

Either way general guidelines are. anything thats not kick and bass can be high passed at 150+ because not much else has any point in being down there anyway.

Some sound can even be cut a lot higher, at 400-500. Lots of problems come up in the 300-500 range too so if you can get away with high passing stuff at 500, go for it. Lots of sounds will trick you when they are soloed, they will sound a lot better with the 200-500 left in. But then when you listen to the sound in the mix with everything else playing, you really cant even tell if 200-500 is there or not, so just take it out. 200-500 gets built up very easily so if something doesn't have to be there IN CONTEXT WITH THE WHOLE MIX, take it out.

 

[bandcoach]

150Hz may be a good rule of thumb but it barely acknowledges what frequency content is actually present in some instruments: the following table lists the lowest sounding note for each instrument given (untuned percussion - most drums and cymbals - are not included)

Note Name	Frequency	MIDI Note number	Singers	Strings Fretless	Strings Fretted	Woodwind	Brass	Tuned percussion	Keyboards
D[sub]4[/sub]	587.33	74				Piccolo
C[sub]4[/sub]	523.25	72						Crotales
G[sub]3[/sub]	392.00	67						Glockenspiel
F[sub]3[/sub]	349.23	65							Accordian
E[sub]3[/sub]	329.63	64					Piccolo Trumpet Bb
C#/Db[sub]3[/sub]	277.18	61				Sopranino Saxophone
C[sub]3[/sub]	261.63	60	Soprano						Celeste
B[sub]2[/sub]	246.94	59				Flute/Oboe
G#/Ab[sub]2[/sub]	207.65	56				Soprano Saxophone	Trumpet D
G[sub]2[/sub]	196.00	55	Alto	Violin	Mandolin	Eb Clarinet
F#/Gb[sub]2[/sub]	185.00	54					Trumpet C
F[sub]2[/sub]	174.61	53				Cor Anglais	FlugelHorn	Tubular Bells/Vibraphone
E[sub]2[/sub]	164.81	52					Trumpet Bb
D#/Eb[sub]2[/sub]	155.56	51				Alto Saxophone
D[sub]2[/sub]	146.83	50			Banjo	Clarinet Bb
C#/Db[sub]2[/sub]	138.59	49				Clarinet A
C[sub]2[/sub]	130.81	48	Tenor	Viola
A[sub]1[/sub]	110.00	45					Alto Trombone	Marimba
G#/Ab[sub]1[/sub]	103.83	44				Tenor Saxophone
F[sub]1[/sub]	87.31	41				Basset Horn
E[sub]1[/sub]	82.41	40	Bass		Guitar		Tenor Trombone
C[sub]1[/sub]	65.41	36		Cello		Baritone Saxophone
B[sub]0[/sub]	61.74	35					Wagner Tuba	Timpani
A#/Bb[sub]0[/sub]	58.27	34				Bass Clarinet/Bassoon	Horn
A[sub]0[/sub]	55.00	33					Bass Trombone/Euphonium
G#/Ab[sub]0[/sub]	51.91	32				Bass Saxophone
G[sub]0[/sub]	49.00	31	Russian Bass
F[sub]0[/sub]	43.65	30							Harpsichord
E[sub]0[/sub]	41.20	29		Bass	Bass (4 string)
C[sub]0[/sub]	32.70	24		Bass (Extension/5 string)					Harp
B[sub]-1[/sub]	30.87	23			Bass (6 string/5 string)
A#/Bb[sub]-1[/sub]	29.14	22				ContraBass Clarinet
A[sub]-1[/sub]	27.50	21				Contrabassoon			Piano
D[sub]-1[/sub]	18.35	15					Tuba
C[sub]-1[/sub]	16.35	12							Organ

 

[Yumid]

150Hz may be a good rule of thumb but it barely acknowledges what frequency content is actually present in some instruments: the following table lists the lowest sounding note for each instrument given (untuned percussion - most drums and cymbals - are not included)

Note Name	Frequency	MIDI Note number	Singers	Strings Fretless	Strings Fretted	Woodwind	Brass	Tuned percussion	Keyboards
D[SUB]4[/SUB]	587.33	74				Piccolo
C[SUB]4[/SUB]	523.25	72						Crotales
G[SUB]3[/SUB]	392.00	67						Glockenspiel
F[SUB]3[/SUB]	349.23	65							Accordian
E[SUB]3[/SUB]	329.63	64					Piccolo Trumpet Bb
C#/Db[SUB]3[/SUB]	277.18	61				Sopranino Saxophone
C[SUB]3[/SUB]	261.63	60	Soprano						Celeste
B[SUB]2[/SUB]	246.94	59				Flute/Oboe
G#/Ab[SUB]2[/SUB]	207.65	56				Soprano Saxophone	Trumpet D
G[SUB]2[/SUB]	196.00	55	Alto	Violin	Mandolin	Eb Clarinet
F#/Gb[SUB]2[/SUB]	185.00	54					Trumpet C
F[SUB]2[/SUB]	174.61	53				Cor Anglais	FlugelHorn	Tubular Bells/Vibraphone
E[SUB]2[/SUB]	164.81	52					Trumpet Bb
D#/Eb[SUB]2[/SUB]	155.56	51				Alto Saxophone
D[SUB]2[/SUB]	146.83	50			Banjo	Clarinet Bb
C#/Db[SUB]2[/SUB]	138.59	49				Clarinet A
C[SUB]2[/SUB]	130.81	48	Tenor	Viola
A[SUB]1[/SUB]	110.00	45					Alto Trombone	Marimba
G#/Ab[SUB]1[/SUB]	103.83	44				Tenor Saxophone
F[SUB]1[/SUB]	87.31	41				Basset Horn
E[SUB]1[/SUB]	82.41	40	Bass		Guitar		Tenor Trombone
C[SUB]1[/SUB]	65.41	36		Cello		Baritone Saxophone
B[SUB]0[/SUB]	61.74	35					Wagner Tuba	Timpani
A#/Bb[SUB]0[/SUB]	58.27	34				Bass Clarinet/Bassoon	Horn
A[SUB]0[/SUB]	55.00	33					Bass Trombone/Euphonium
G#/Ab[SUB]0[/SUB]	51.91	32				Bass Saxophone
G[SUB]0[/SUB]	49.00	31	Russian Bass
F[SUB]0[/SUB]	43.65	30							Harpsichord
E[SUB]0[/SUB]	41.20	29		Bass	Bass (4 string)
C[SUB]0[/SUB]	32.70	24		Bass (Extension/5 string)					Harp
B[SUB]-1[/SUB]	30.87	23			Bass (6 string/5 string)
A#/Bb[SUB]-1[/SUB]	29.14	22				ContraBass Clarinet
A[SUB]-1[/SUB]	27.50	21				Contrabassoon			Piano
D[SUB]-1[/SUB]	18.35	15					Tuba
C[SUB]-1[/SUB]	16.35	12							Organ

Yah i was just using 150 as a rough guideline because thats technically where it switches from lows to low mids. Or is it bass to lows? Either way thats where the 'frequency region' switches and below that is where a lot of mud comes from, which is why we low cut. As far as instrument specific frequency content, thats why I was mentioning the fundamental tone. Either 150hz ish or the fundamental tone, aka the lowest frequency being played...

BUT as I just finished typing the above, I think I just clued into what you meant. I was interpreting it wrong. Are you saying that on a Bassoon, for example, since the lowest frequency is 58hz we should cut at 58hz instead of 150 or the fundamental to keep the realism in tact? Even if we aren't using those frequencies and the fundamental tone may be higher? I never thought of it like that but it makes sense, if thats what you're talking about.
Might need to start abandoning that logic as you add more instruments to the mix but it would definitely makes more sense for a more organic song, or just avoid having to worry about it and pick all the right instruments right off the bat. Nice chart, I need to save that.

 

[rickpolo]

@ BandCoach I could not have said it better. To the OP your most valuable assets is your ears and a good source to monitor from. I personally and this is just me and what works for my sound all instrumentation not including drum work or my bassline sis typically cut by 100hz by default when I'm mixing. Now vocals it really depends because I like a phat bottom end on the vocals so usually cut the vocals in the 45 to 70 hz it all depends. I have recently picked up the habit to also cutting 20hz on the 2 buss. It's really not needed because I cut everything individually but I do it anyway.

 

[bandcoach]

Yah i was just using 150 as a rough guideline because thats technically where it switches from lows to low mids. Or is it bass to lows? Either way thats where the 'frequency region' switches and below that is where a lot of mud comes from, which is why we low cut. As far as instrument specific frequency content, thats why I was mentioning the fundamental tone. Either 150hz ish or the fundamental tone, aka the lowest frequency being played...

it's cool I had the same figure quoted to me the other day by two of bc juniors lecturers - a broad sweeping statement that does not hold up under scrutiny from a musical perspective

BUT as I just finished typing the above, I think I just clued into what you meant. I was interpreting it wrong. Are you saying that on a Bassoon, for example, since the lowest frequency is 58hz we should cut at 58hz instead of 150 or the fundamental to keep the realism in tact? Even if we aren't using those frequencies and the fundamental tone may be higher? I never thought of it like that but it makes sense, if thats what you're talking about.
Might need to start abandoning that logic as you add more instruments to the mix but it would definitely makes more sense for a more organic song, or just avoid having to worry about it and pick all the right instruments right off the bat. Nice chart, I need to save that.

eq should always be responsive to the musical situation as much as it should be to a broad view of what does and doesn't work: that said if the part does not go below certain notes then you may well prefer to cut at or just above that notes freq; i.e. responsive rather than reflexive or reactive

@ BandCoach I could not have said it better. To the OP your most valuable assets is your ears and a good source to monitor from. I personally and this is just me and what works for my sound all instrumentation not including drum work or my bassline sis typically cut by 100hz by default when I'm mixing. Now vocals it really depends because I like a phat bottom end on the vocals so usually cut the vocals in the 45 to 70 hz it all depends. I have recently picked up the habit to also cutting 20hz on the 2 buss. It's really not needed because I cut everything individually but I do it anyway.

if we cascade filters we effectively increase the steepness of the curve at the cutoff freq so a low cut at 20Hz on the 2 channel master ensures that any accrued crud during the mix phase not already eliminated by earlier cuts is dealt with