How loud should everything be in db?

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n777l

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Hey guys,

I got this problem that when I mix and master, and complete my song I compare it to the big commercial ones (house, dubstep, trapstep etc.)
and I always find that my kick is either to low or too loud in db - and when I look at the most big tracks out there, it's almost like they got a universal/common thingy, when it comes to keep certain stuff (like kick, bass etc) at a certain loudness.

Is there some sort of universal list of how loud everything in the mix should be at after mastering? Or am I wrong, are they only using their ears for these stuff? =/

But I still wonder... If the mastered song is at 0 db - then how loud should the bass, and the kick etc. be at?


~Thanks for answers
 
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Thing is, mixing by numbers is a mugs game.

You can achieve what you are looking for by applying multi-band compression/limiting/maximising, i.e. different bands of frequency being given different amounts of the mentioned dynamic processors to achieve a full, leveled mix. The numbers that you apply will be different for every mix, as every mix will have different levels in each band to begin with and thus require different degrees of dynamic mastering; giving you numbers won't help achieve the outcome as the field is continually moving.
 
Probably your songs won't be as loud (and still keep the dynamics) as commercial ones, because normally the song is mastered by a engineer, not the musician him/herself. It take years and years of practicing and knowledge.
 
The only way to know is to use your ears. This is difficult in a typical bedroom setup because of the acoustics which will play tricks with what you hear, particularly in the low end. The number are MEANINGLESS because it depends on what the kick sounds like and what everything else sounds like. I could not tell you the 'volume' of the kick of ANY record I've mixed - because it's meaningless.

Although others might disagree, I would avoid multi-band compression like the plague. It's a horrible band-aid for the wrong problem.
 
kick should be around -3db but if it's around there but too too loud... compress.... percussion wise you can look at the db levels.. but everything else should go by ears..
 
SwagProductionz said:
kick should be around -3db but if it's around there but too too loud... compress.... percussion wise you can look at the db levels.. but everything else should go by ears..
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No, I'm sorry. I'm sure you mean well, but this is wrong information. There is no such thing as a good dB level for kick. Such a thing does not exist. Even if it did, -3dBFS is WAY TOO LOUD for proper gain structuring.

Back to the OP. If you want a shortcut to balancing levels, take a commercial record from your favorite artist in a similar genre and put that in your session. Depending on your DAW you will need to rout that track so that you can hear it without any 2buss processing at all. This can be done in a multitude of ways depending on your DAW. Now turn that favorite song down 12 to 15dB (you are new to mixing, so probably safer to go with -15dB). Now when you start mixing your kick and all the rest of your music, shoot for the same sounding volume. No numbers! Just shoot for what sounds about the same as that reference song (which you've turned down). This will set you up for proper gain structuring and ultimately your mix will sound better - and it takes some of the initial guess work out of where to start with your levels.
 
chris carter said:
No, I'm sorry. I'm sure you mean well, but this is wrong information. There is no such thing as a good dB level for kick. Such a thing does not exist. Even if it did, -3dBFS is WAY TOO LOUD for proper gain structuring.

Back to the OP. If you want a shortcut to balancing levels, take a commercial record from your favorite artist in a similar genre and put that in your session. Depending on your DAW you will need to rout that track so that you can hear it without any 2buss processing at all. This can be done in a multitude of ways depending on your DAW. Now turn that favorite song down 12 to 15dB (you are new to mixing, so probably safer to go with -15dB). Now when you start mixing your kick and all the rest of your music, shoot for the same sounding volume. No numbers! Just shoot for what sounds about the same as that reference song (which you've turned down). This will set you up for proper gain structuring and ultimately your mix will sound better - and it takes some of the initial guess work out of where to start with your levels.
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Thanks I'll go ahead and try that! Problem is that I don't know how to import a track to Fruity Loops and let it stay there without getting affected by the stuff on the master =/ .. But I'll do my research.
 
Complex question. One thing to think about is:
How to achieve loudness within the mix. Think about this every step of the way if you are concerned about a loud master. Look into saturation, compression (sidechain and parallel), EQing, and level (kick should prob be loudest).

Sound choice. Less is more.
 
First, you should always peak low when mixing/recording. My mixes might peak -12dbfs but usually a little bit lower. There's more to a mix than just volume. The technical things such as phase issues, build-up (checking for mono/stereo differences), stereo imaging, mixing in a non-treated environment/not knowing the room, mixing with the speakers up too loud (I mix at low volumes.)
 
chris carter said:
No, I'm sorry. I'm sure you mean well, but this is wrong information. There is no such thing as a good dB level for kick. Such a thing does not exist. Even if it did, -3dBFS is WAY TOO LOUD for proper gain structuring.

Back to the OP. If you want a shortcut to balancing levels, take a commercial record from your favorite artist in a similar genre and put that in your session. Depending on your DAW you will need to rout that track so that you can hear it without any 2buss processing at all. This can be done in a multitude of ways depending on your DAW. Now turn that favorite song down 12 to 15dB (you are new to mixing, so probably safer to go with -15dB). Now when you start mixing your kick and all the rest of your music, shoot for the same sounding volume. No numbers! Just shoot for what sounds about the same as that reference song (which you've turned down). This will set you up for proper gain structuring and ultimately your mix will sound better - and it takes some of the initial guess work out of where to start with your levels.
Click to expand...

Well I agree to disagree.
 
Well a song isn't supposed to be as loud as possible the entire time. In general you should find your climax areas and fill out the space. Essentially as loud as possible without clipping, there is no universal answer because you could always turn something down to make space for another sound. Or mess with the EQ to make your kick more bass friendly and what not.
 
Man just mix by ear. Find a commercial song similar to the effect your trying to achieve and emulate it. Then take note off the volume for each instrument and make that your personal preference. Don't always stick to the rules exactly once you make them. Bend them to fit each individual track. Where the bass might hit right in one might saturate the track in another.
 
You have to know the following facts:
  • Peak dB values displayed by the DAW meters are irrelevant to evaluate the perceived loudness.
  • The RMS values are closer to the perceived loudness but they don't take count of the hearing system non-linearities.
  • Broadcasters have developed a relevant unit to measure the loudness which is called LU. (just google R 128)
I don't know any professional using the LU to drive their mix simply because it isn't relevant enough when dealing with music.

So, my advice is using your ears and invest in a serious monitoring calibrated according the K-system (google is your friend). No number can help you to mix.
 
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First - compress the sound on the master bus to give it something that's often called "glue" (unless you're making a whole album, if so, you need to wait until you have every track finished for mastering). As soon as you do it apply a limiter (but first be sure to know how it works).

The compression will give a good amount of glue to your tracks, they will not sound as if they were separate instruments fighting for attention.

The limiter will give your song a big volume level boost. Just BE CAREFUL. You can turn a nice piece of music into a big piece of shit if you limit it too strictly. For example - giving your song only 3dB of dynamics will make it extremely loud, but at the same time extremely annoying to listen to.
 
Please don't use any limiter on your master buss if you plan to have some mastering. The limiter MUST be the very last element in the production chain.
 
That's why I said that you need to wait for the mastering if you're planning to put that song on an album. If that's just a single song that you want to publish on youtube then you can use the limiter.
 
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