How do I make my kicks and snares less aggressive?????

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dphlatproductions

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Hello all!! Im mostly a Hip Hop/R&B/Dubstep beat maker and alot of the time my mixes sound good and clean. But it seems like my snares and kicks take over the track!!! When I mix doun i dont get much volume out of my tracks, And the waves look weird instead of everything looking even i can tell very well just by looking at the waveform where the kicks and snares are. and the rest of it is very thin. And I've mixed it over and over. ive tried compressors limiters everything. They seem to suck the life out of the track. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!
 
Less compression, turn things down and turn your speakers up.
 
ObiK said:
Less compression, turn things down and turn your speakers up.
Click to expand...

NOOOOOOO!!! Don't do that no!

What you just described is the "mastering" process of your beats. This is usually done with compression / limiting (to keep it short) on your master bus.
You see you sound like you described that your track is all under 0db even with the kicks and stuff so your beat is quiet, but when you bring up the volume it goes above 0db. Is that correct? Without the mastering process of your beats, it won't sound loud at all and your peaks jump everywhere. Show you some examples.

This is a track of mine I did a few months back. This is what you're concerned about. Your percussion stick out of the mix and gives your waveform this spikey look. I knew what mastering was back then but I never really played around with it. So this is how it looks.


This is another track of mine. More recent.
I'm not claiming to be a pro in any way shape or form since I am literally still learning but this would be how a mastered track should look.


On this track there's a lot less spikes jumping out of the general waveform, and despite the power of the kicks and snares, there is no (or maybe very little in this example) "breathing" of the compressor (where every time a kick or snare hits, the general volume of the track goes down and struggles back up again).

So you need to read up on "Mastering". Be aware tho that this will take away from the power of your kicks / snares and there are ways to recover some of the punch without clipping and ducking in volume.

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

Urgh, hold on let me edit that post. I don't quite know how to embed yet.
 
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What about EQ? i do just that with snares and hi hats if they are to loud and pingy, just mess around with the high's and low's as well as the compressor
Do you use reverb on your snares at all? that too can be handy for taking some of the sting out.
 
heres an example
http://soundcloud.com/darius-bynum/way-back-when

---------- Post added at 02:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 AM ----------

Cool I've been reading about mastering and stuff and trying it. I think i just need to practice a little more!!! Thanks for the tips and examples!!!!! Im glad to hear that I'm not doing to much wrong Ive just gotta complete the process!!!!

---------- Post added at 02:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 AM ----------

Yeah i eq and still get the same result. Same with reverb. and they still seem over powering not so much in the mix but as far as the clipping!
 
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dvsjay said:
NOOOOOOO!!! Don't do that no!

What you just described is the "mastering" process of your beats. This is usually done with compression / limiting (to keep it short) on your master bus.
You see you sound like you described that your track is all under 0db even with the kicks and stuff so your beat is quiet, but when you bring up the volume it goes above 0db. Is that correct? Without the mastering process of your beats, it won't sound loud at all and your peaks jump everywhere. Show you some examples.

This is a track of mine I did a few months back. This is what you're concerned about. Your percussion stick out of the mix and gives your waveform this spikey look. I knew what mastering was back then but I never really played around with it. So this is how it looks.


This is another track of mine. More recent.
I'm not claiming to be a pro in any way shape or form since I am literally still learning but this would be how a mastered track should look.


On this track there's a lot less spikes jumping out of the general waveform, and despite the power of the kicks and snares, there is no (or maybe very little in this example) "breathing" of the compressor (where every time a kick or snare hits, the general volume of the track goes down and struggles back up again).

So you need to read up on "Mastering". Be aware tho that this will take away from the power of your kicks / snares and there are ways to recover some of the punch without clipping and ducking in volume.

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

Urgh, hold on let me edit that post. I don't quite know how to embed yet.
Click to expand...
I think you are confusing mixing and mastering. From the sounds of it this issue needs to be fixed in the mixing process. I agree with Obi less compression and turn stuff down. Mixes are not meant to be loud they are meant to be even. Mastering can help with overall volume.
 
Id say use the compression and limiters wisley on ur mixes because yes they deff can take the life out of ur track, u can EQ ur kicks and snares and that should do the trick much better than compression i have learned. or u can turn down the snare and kick if you like but idk bout that i havent done that much just learn about some good EQing and everything should be fine.
 
Xabiton said:
I think you are confusing mixing and mastering. From the sounds of it this issue needs to be fixed in the mixing process. I agree with Obi less compression and turn stuff down. Mixes are not meant to be loud they are meant to be even. Mastering can help with overall volume.
Click to expand...

Am not confusing the two. If you read what he says, he describes a pre-mastered track with low volume levels and very spiky waveforms. If you mix in your percussion to around the same level as your instruments then you won't get the punch from them. Sounds dead and muffled in the mix. Read again this part

dphlatproductions said:
When I mix doun i dont get much volume out of my tracks, And the waves look weird instead of everything looking even i can tell very well just by looking at the waveform where the kicks and snares are. and the rest of it is very thin. And I've mixed it over and over. ive tried compressors limiters everything.
Click to expand...

And in mastering a beat, you loose some dynamic rage of the audio which is why you will loose some power in your percussion when you master. It's not an assumption but fact.

So since he said he tried mixing it over, using compressors and limiters etc. Sounds like the track needs to be mastered. If after it's mastered if the kicks and snares are still too loud then he needs to revisit his mix and ease up on the compression of them.
 
dphlatproductions said:
heres an example
Way Back When!!!!! by Darius Bynum on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

---------- Post added at 02:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 AM ----------

Cool I've been reading about mastering and stuff and trying it. I think i just need to practice a little more!!! Thanks for the tips and examples!!!!! Im glad to hear that I'm not doing to much wrong Ive just gotta complete the process!!!!

---------- Post added at 02:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 AM ----------

Yeah i eq and still get the same result. Same with reverb. and they still seem over powering not so much in the mix but as far as the clipping!
Click to expand...

track is cool... i dont hear an issue with the kick overpowering the music (the kick sounds a bit dead/clobbered itself but idk if that was the sound you were going for) but there is definitely an issue with the overall level of the track and the instrument levels...

so what you have here is a mixing and a mastering issue... xabiton is correct in that you need to remix to bring the chorus levels us in relation to the kick, possibly eq the kick (or use new sample) if you arent happy with the sound.. and then add compression/limiting on the master to bring the overall level up...
 
I stand by what I said. If you can't get it right in the mix, mastering is not going to save it.
 
dvsjay said:
Am not confusing the two. If you read what he says, he describes a pre-mastered track with low volume levels and very spiky waveforms. If you mix in your percussion to around the same level as your instruments then you won't get the punch from them. Sounds dead and muffled in the mix. Read again this part



And in mastering a beat, you loose some dynamic rage of the audio which is why you will loose some power in your percussion when you master. It's not an assumption but fact.

So since he said he tried mixing it over, using compressors and limiters etc. Sounds like the track needs to be mastered. If after it's mastered if the kicks and snares are still too loud then he needs to revisit his mix and ease up on the compression of them.
Click to expand...
I see where u are coming from but the thing is if he turned the stuff down and used less compression during the mix he wouldn't need to fix it in mastering. He is trying to get it loud and mastering can help the overall level. Mixes are supposed to be even. Now of course even varies from genre to genre example drums in hip hop are upfront and Guitars are up front in Metal but one has to take that into account also. In order to not lose so much power in the master he should use minimal compression in the mix stage. That is if he is mastering beats I generally think that's a bad idea since he will probably sell the beat to an artist and the artist will likely want the version he heard and then master his song and lose even more power.

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 AM ----------
ObiK said:
I stand by what I said. If you can't get it right in the mix, mastering is not going to save it.
Click to expand...
exactly in many cases mastering might make the problem worse!
 
It's great that question got asked. So many different perspectives being shared in here.

Anyways, that's the main reason I googled a forum like this in the first place and I must say it's nice to be here although it's only been a couple days. The other forum I was in wasn't like this.

Anyways, if you do find a (or some) solution(s) to the issue please post the outcome.

Jay_
 
Well... if something is too loud and aggresive, i would say compress it... and just don't turn the gain up. (Obi... i just by "less compression"... you really mean less gain on the compressor... and a lower ratio.... is that what you're getting at?)




To answer the original question.... I have this EXACT same issues at times, but moreso with the vocals and my snares. They always seem to be too pronounced... too sharp/harsh... and standout too much. It's like they are separated. A great bus compressor has been fixing this problem for me.It really sounds like you need to glue your tracks together. The kicks/snares probably have the right character, which is why it slips by your radar... but then they are just too damn "present" in the mix.

GLUE THAT THING TOGETHER!!!! lol

I like moses' TDR Feedback compressor for this. It's so freakin clear... and compresses the right parts that need taming.

gluing it should make your waveform nice and pretty too haha. Of course you can fix this ahead of time in the mix like Obi and Xabition said.... but, if you don't feel like doing all of that work... a good bus compressor may be your answer.
 
Everything ObiK has said in this thread has been on the money. I don't know why there has been any disagreement. :4theloveofgod:
 
Thanks you guy for all the feedback!!!! You all have been very helpful!!!!
 
Levels, levels, levels. Put work into making your percussion sound fine without any compression at all. Don't use compressors, limiters, or maximizers to cover up poor leveling and EQ'ing. Set your percussion to the proper levels, and use EQ cuts if it sounds too sharp. The big issue people have is making their bass kicks WAY too loud because they don't understand how to make it "stick out" in the mix. One trick you can do is use two kicks and layer them. What I do sometimes is combine a sub-kick(super bassy) with a normal kick(higher end frequencies) and EQ them so that I cut the lower EQ bass frequencies from the normal kick, and cut the higher frequencies from the sub-kick. You can even adjust the Attack of the Sub-kick so that it doesn't overpower your normal kick. This will give you a good, powerful kick that sticks out and doesn't have to be really loud.
 
im having this problem. if i turn the snare and kick down, its lost its presence. if i keep it up, its not loud but it sounds good. it just takes all the headroom away and i have less room to work with on the limiter. my tracks look like the first one in the comparison that was made. people have told me it sounds good, but volume wise its lacking. what can i do in the mix to fix this? i dont use a compressor on my drums. all i do is eq.
 
Bring down the rest of your mix. You should be seeing -6 or -7 peaks in your project before you send to mastering. Then when you limit and compress everything will come out.

Compression is a good idea on your drum tracks though, but not heavy, just to tighten them up... then create a send fx with reverb on it and give a some of all your drums to the same verb. Voila... presence.

ps: don't forget to stereo image your beats.
 
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