Hip-Hop and Racism

Kal X

New member
Ok so after reading the comments in the "Paul Mooney on Hip-Hop" thread (https://www.futureproducers.com/for...-r-b/paul-mooney-white-people-hip-hop-427279/) I really want to say something.

Hip-hop is an art form, and thus it's non-exclusive. By that I mean that any form of music, whether it's hip hop or classical, should not discriminate based on race. If you can spit, you can spit. If you can make hot beats, you can make hot beats. To say that white people should not make hip-hop because of their skin color is an inherent form of prejudice and racism. Separate is NOT equal.

HOWEVER, I believe the point Paul Mooney was making in the video is that it's wrong for Caucasians to emulate the behavior/way of talking of black people in hip-hop for the sole purpose of being cool or accepted in the industry. In short, he was saying be yourself.

Also, the fact is that we are not that far removed from slavery. Many of our parents (and maybe even us) were around when schools were still segregated. The history of America and much of the world is wrought with instances of one race (usually white) controlling and discriminating against another race (usually black) through violence and institutionalized racism. As much as we choose to ignore it, racism is still alive and kicking, and many black people are understandably still touchy about any instance of white superiority. Hip-hop originally was largely a black dominated industry, and a way for many black people in poor areas to rise above their poor socioeconomic conditions. When white people started entering into hip-hop, it felt to many as though this was another case of whites stealing something that the blacks had created. Let us not forget that much of the reason that blacks are over-represented in the lower class and prison populations is because of slavery's lasting effects. It's not like after they were freed they had equal access to the resources that white people have. The whole reason black people use the n-word and wear chains is to devoid these items used for such hateful and evil actions in the past of their meaning.

That being said, I was shocked reading the comments in the Paul Mooney thread as a lot of posters were saying things like my race is entitled to this because we created it, your race stole it (going both ways). Associating race with entitlement is just propagating racial difference. Instead of focusing on entitlement, we should be focusing on the condition of the industry as whole. Wackness is wackness. Hotness is hotness. In fact, I personally think that hip-hop has been one of the most progressive areas of art in terms of bringing together diversity. From personal experience, I feel as though I can relate to a gamut of races and cultures just because of a shared love of hip-hop. Stop hating.
 
I think this is totally unfair. HipHop started from the Ghetto. Back in the 80's, white people thought it would not last. HipHop just like Rock and Blues told the story of the 'Urban Ghetto Generation' of its time.(Not the white culture). HipHop's essence started this way. To bypass this is not sound understanding. Telling musicians and producers Blacks started most popular music in America is not racist, but a fact. A fact that many like to ignore.
Epcially now. Hiphop has been sold and discarded now.

There is a reason HipHop went through a Pro Conscious period. (Public Enemy, BDP, Big Daddy Kane, Rakim. Poor Richeous Teachers etc.). It spoke to wake up the 80's/90's urban black generation. N.W.A spoke to what Blacks were going through in the hood like the Geto Boyz. (Not whites). They were speaking for Black Youth.

Your statement is typical of what today's generation would say, because now everything has mashed and
This is not hate, but HipHop History. If speaking about the truth about HipHip history is racist, then the problem
lies elsewhere.

Everybody in the "New World Order" of thinking now. Forget your true past and just live for today. Is today's motto. Especially for the ones who don't respect its past and want to abuse so they can become rich or successful out of greed. No one is saying black people ever said white people could not participate. Its just when that happens, the original gets lost as if they never existed, like how some on this forum are trying to do.

Black achievements should be fully welcomed and recognized in,Music History. More than just HipHop but to the full extent. You would think the 'white producers' on this board would welcome this information. They would be proud that it is told. Instead, they want it ignored. That is not racist. If you say that is racist, then maybe you are the one who needs to do a self-check.
 
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I think this is totally unfair. HipHop started from the Ghetto. Back in the 80's, white people thought it would not last. HipHop just like Rock and Blues told the story of the 'Urban Ghetto Generation' of its time.(Not the white culture). HipHop's essence started this way. To bypass this is not sound understanding. Telling musicians and producers Blacks started most popular music in America is not racist, but a fact. A fact that many like to ignore.
Epcially now. Hiphop has been sold and discarded now.

There is a reason HipHop went through a Pro Conscious period. (Public Enemy, BDP, Big Daddy Kane, Rakim. Poor Richeous Teachers etc.). It spoke to wake up the 80's/90's urban black generation. N.W.A spoke to what Blacks were going through in the hood like the Geto Boyz. (Not whites). They were speaking for Black Youth.

Your statement is typical of what today's generation would say, because now everything has mashed and
This is not hate, but HipHop History. If speaking about the truth about HipHip history is racist, then the problem
lies elsewhere.

Everybody in the "New World Order" of thinking now. Forget your true past and just live for today. Is today's motto. Especially for the ones who don't respect its past and want to abuse so they can become rich or successful out of greed. No one is saying black people ever said white people could not participate. Its just when that happens, the original gets lost as if they never existed, like how some on this forum are trying to do.

Black achievements should be fully welcomed and recognized in,Music History. More than just HipHop but to the full extent. You would think the 'white producers' on this board would welcome this information. They would be proud that it is told. Instead, they want it ignored. That is not racist. If you say that is racist, then maybe you are the one who needs to do a self-check.

I think you might have misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that taking pride in the fact that blacks started hip hop (as well as jazz and rock) is wrong or racist. I think it's definitely something that must be remembered. I'm just saying in this day and age, to state that one race should be excluded from a certain type of activity because it has origins in a predominately black movement is somewhat racist.

One of the points that I was trying to make in the thread is that it's extremely important to reflect on the historical origins of hip hop and black culture to understand why some white hip hop artists feel they are the subject of an underlying sense of hostility. As I said, this tension is completely justifiable by America's history. However, there's a difference between not forgetting your past and continuing harmful attitudes between races. As a white producer, I don't believe I ever said anything about wanting it to be ignored though. Those kinds of generalizations don't help anything.
 
I think you might have misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that taking pride in the fact that blacks started hip hop (as well as jazz and rock) is wrong or racist. I think it's definitely something that must be remembered. I'm just saying in this day and age, to state that one race should be excluded from a certain type of activity because it has origins in a predominately black movement is somewhat racist.

One of the points that I was trying to make in the thread is that it's extremely important to reflect on the historical origins of hip hop and black culture to understand why some white hip hop artists feel they are the subject of an underlying sense of hostility. As I said, this tension is completely justifiable by America's history. However, there's a difference between not forgetting your past and continuing harmful attitudes between races. As a white producer, I don't believe I ever said anything about wanting it to be ignored though. Those kinds of generalizations don't help anything.

No one said one race was better than the next. That is mostly assumed when you speak about Black Achievements. So some black poeple feel they have to defend white people, so the pushback can come from Black people too. That is what happened in the main thread. Most blacks don't know there full history, so when they are hit with information, they also reject it. Cause, they were taught the 'white man' did everything.

No one is better than next, we are all human. But, the contributions that Black people have done for this world, always get ignored and robbed. This needs to stop. HipHop has suffered because of this. The next new genre will do the same, if people don't change.
 
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See it's issues such as this that make me very fond of a newer hip hop producer/musician from the group Odd Future, Tyler The Creator is a great example of healthy racism/offensiveness/vulgarity in rap lyrics, because of the fact that it brings those problems to the light, and the way I interpret it is that it is just in creative fun, these artists are getting reactions and are gaining notoriety for how far they push the envelope, this is what musicians do and have been doing in this industry for a long time now, it is most often not literal and (IMO) it does a great job at showing the irony in all of those things anyways. Oh yeah, can't forget free speech too, whether you like what people are saying or not, RIGHTS like that are a good thing! :)
 
A black man speaks his mind with no hatred at all. Just how he feels. And people in 2012 act like he on the same level as



^^^^You can't compare not ONE hip hop song to this shit as far as racism. They ain't joking around....they are foreal.....reality. Repeat :55 over and over til you get a real understanding.

I've heard some real "racist" metal, country, rock, ect. Match that video with "ANY" so called "Black MAN" who you think is racist. Shit is weak man. Yall need to quit being so got damn offended or making things bigger than what it is. If any GOT DAMN thing.....black people need to stay alert instead of falling for the "racism is not like it used to be in the US" BULLSHIT!!!!!!!! I wouldn't give a damn who's feelings is hurt. I got to watch MFers getting training in the got damn arm forces to do ME harm. What black man is doing YOU harm or has potentials of planning harm on whites? Real talk.



Kiss my ass. People need to grow some balls and quit trying to find a way to make us look like we are full of hate.
 
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People dip in and out of being racist. Situations cause it.

When people need somebody to blame or to look down on... it rears its ugly head. Most of those people change their minds and know it's not really right or valid. It just gives them somebody to blame. People that really BELIEVE things about ALL other people... are dangerous.

Pat Barry a UFC fighter that has a lot of fans won a fight last weekend, in his post fight interview he said that he was half-black. Most people probably already knew it but some dude got on instragram and said that he COULDN'T be a fan after hearing that and went off on Pat Barry, lol. Pat Barry - being the fool he is - got right back at him on Instagram... a lot of "non-black" to be politically correct people got offended.

Fightlinker recently posted an exchange from Instagram - Mixed Martial Arts Forum
 


First video proves my point earlier. You have to listen and understand.....not just listen and pin point things that may be offensive. It sounds harsh.....but it's nothing really.

Second video.....O.K you got one dude who may have a few followers. He would really win a war against that one white leader gathering white people trained to kill.........blacks. How many black people are actually following him? They think he is crazy as well in this perfect world of "everything is gucci on this side....why am I fighting or running?"

For real man. Some shit is about to go down that average US citizens are not aware of. Black people in general do not have enough hate to start what is about to happen. And we will not have the proper training to even fight back. We gone act.......but we gone fold up like some weaklings because we got to comfortable with freedom and forgot it's people that really want to exterminate US blacks.



Time to go deer hunting my nigga. Because the white man who hates you ain't going to miss. Not saying ALL white people hate you......but the reality of you not knowing who do and who don't. So you got a pistol......learn how to use it. Black Ops is not the real deal....niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimean?
 
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Unfortunately conversations about racism never turn out productive at all on any forum or after any event in recent history. Everyone on FP wants to bring up these little facts that they googled or what not. Everyone's background, upbringing and life experiences play a part in what they perceive to be the truth. We get threads like this that take a life of their own with pages and pages of back and forth bullsh!t. In the end nothing has changed! The conversations aren't swaying anyone's opinions they only infuriate. I have never read a post that has persuaded me to change my feelings as a black man because my life experiences have already molded and shaped my perspective. If these conversations on racism never get better or at least show some progress than they are a waste of time.

Until Aliens come down from space and try to take over our planet and we are forced to ban together for HUMANITIES sake we will always have racism in one shape or another.
 
Unfortunately conversations about racism never turn out productive at all on any forum or after any event in recent history. Everyone on FP wants to bring up these little facts that they googled or what not. Everyone's background, upbringing and life experiences play a part in what they perceive to be the truth. We get threads like this that take a life of their own with pages and pages of back and forth bullsh!t. In the end nothing has changed! The conversations aren't swaying anyone's opinions they only infuriate. I have never read a post that has persuaded me to change my feelings as a black man because my life experiences have already molded and shaped my perspective. If these conversations on racism never get better or at least show some progress than they are a waste of time.

Until Aliens come down from space and try to take over our planet and we are forced to ban together for HUMANITIES sake we will always have racism in one shape or another.

I've seen convos on here that made me think twice and give second thought. I am not stubborn minded. I agree with old dog/new trick saying in what you are saying. But if conversation like this don't take place. Everyone will be just hiding their true thoughts. You can't move forward, until you first heal the past. Its like cancer, its gonna be there always. The point about telling about the truth in the world is so people can be on the same page. But when someone is stubborn you cannot help that person.
 
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I've seen convos on here that made me think twice and give second thought. I am not stubborn minded. I agree with old dog/new trick saying in what you are saying. But if conversation like this don't take place. Everyone will be just hiding their true thoughts. You can't move forward, until you first heal the past. Its like cancer, its gonna be there always. The point about telling about the truth in the world is so people can be on the same page. But when someone is stubborn you cannot help that person.

I just don't see the conversations getting better. This is why there could never be another conscious era because it would be considered racist due to the whole reverse-racism thing. Hip Hop is no longer the culture that it once was, it is just another music genre.
 
I just don't see the conversations getting better. This is why there could never be another conscious era because it would be considered racist due to the whole reverse-racism thing. Hip Hop is no longer the culture that it once was, it is just another music genre.

This is true. But this always happen, once the original people that started it are pushed to the side. That is just the plain truth. They cannot longer rap about Africa, black social issues or conscious raps, cause now other cultures are in position of power more and the number is greater of other cultures participating in HipHop. Hiphop has been sold out. Now that everybody has raped her. The leftover are for the people now trying to get in at the end.

People call it hate, but these were all saying on Rap records at one time. Now they call it hate. I do understand what your saying totally. You are not wrong on that.

Grandmaster Flash The Message was about the black ghetto
Too Short song was about the Ghetto.


Now nobody cares about nothing and say just forget it.
 
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OH MY STOMACH HURTS!!! GOT TEARS IN MY EYES LAUGHING!! GOT DAMN!!! :cry:


I'm done.....on with the thread topic.
 
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I will say that while we argue black vs. white in the US... when black americans and white americans are overseas... they're really nice to each other. They ask stuff like "Where are you from!!!" and say stuff like "Have a safe flight home, it was nice to meet you!!!"

... but if you happen to be on the same plane going home... the niceness stops at customs and it's back to "the way it is"

So it's really "it's where you're from AND where you're at"
 
Everybody in the "New World Order" of thinking now. Forget your true past and just live for today. Is today's motto. Especially for the ones who don't respect its past and want to abuse so they can become rich or successful out of greed.

Greed is good. Forget the past. I am only concerned with what is going on today in the here and now. If I can use the past as leverage to boost me into a higher position, I will. But I really do not care about slavery, segregation, or any of that other "back-in-the-day" stuff.

Time only moves forward. I am with the modern times. I only connect with the past when it is convenient or beneficial. Ohter than that, who cares? Shit happened. No one can change it or make it different. How much money I can get now is more important than any hopes or dreams my ancestors had.

My ancestors only wanted equal treatment and education. Those are mediocre ambitions today. I want to be a multibillionaire. I don't care about equality or education. Wealth is the only equalizer in today's world!
 
Unfortunately conversations about racism never turn out productive at all on any forum or after any event in recent history. Everyone on FP wants to bring up these little facts that they googled or what not. Everyone's background, upbringing and life experiences play a part in what they perceive to be the truth. We get threads like this that take a life of their own with pages and pages of back and forth bullsh!t. In the end nothing has changed! The conversations aren't swaying anyone's opinions they only infuriate. I have never read a post that has persuaded me to change my feelings as a black man because my life experiences have already molded and shaped my perspective. If these conversations on racism never get better or at least show some progress than they are a waste of time.

Until Aliens come down from space and try to take over our planet and we are forced to ban together for HUMANITIES sake we will always have racism in one shape or another.
Yeah I kinda regret starting this thread in the first place, I don't think it's productive at all. But you know what? I don't care how anyone justifies racism in any sense. I'm all for racial pride and what not but at the end of the day looking at one race as better than another in any sense is just propagating the difference and encouraging racial alliance, and it's not helpful IMO. **** this thread, I love errbody
 


**** THE OREO BLACKS, CAUSE YOU JOCKIN THE OTHER, YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR COLOR,
YOU NEED TO LEARN TO HANG WIT YOUR SISTERS A BROTHERS, YOUR MOTHER SHOULD OF TOLD YOU NOT TO **** WITH WHITE TRASH, CAUSE WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN THEY WON'T CUT FOR YOUR ASS.
 
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