happy hardcore .. not!

[transformer]

Hey peeps

i been tryin to make hip hop beats for a year now key word tryin i've come a long way since i started but when i did start i started off with a korg that i bought off ebay i didnt even no much ab out synths but thought i'd learn the hardway thru practice, its a Korg trinity v6 workstation it has bank a bank b and a bank M .

Although ive been rallying it all year for some reason i cant get the sound out of the keyboard i want i dont know what sound im looking for im just waitin to feel it .. know what i mean lol ?

ok the problem is everything i play out my synth sounds a lil cheery rather than hip hop weird, I know u can put ne sounds these days but its not what im looking for..

so i figured..

am i just really bad at playin the synth and have no choice but keep practicin..

or.

is it because different synths give different sounds?

like some cheery sounds n some dirty style beats

or does my synth need to be connected to something else to change the sound etc ..

the sound quality is ok but not excellent considering ive hooked it straight to my fireface800 using sonar 5 with output to a pair of mackie monitors

ne help is good help thanxs


if i need to update my hardware for big boys what do u reccommend

im not in copyin beats n dat like looking for dirty south style or east coast whatever., just looking for a nice sound oozes quality and does not sound cheery ... or to scary!

 

[djemboy2]

The sound you want

Hi
just from my own experience, hardware synths are all very well and good, but are still limited, i have found that using VST synths and Samplers to be much much more productive, flexible and cost effective, you might wanna try that way, personally i use FL Studio, a 790MHZ computer, soundblaster live and VST synths and samplers, my input is done with a Casio CTK 491(probably the crappiest home keyboard ever released, aside from the Casio SK1) and i am able to produce exactley what i want.
Michael

 

[transformer]

orite cool i know what u mean i thought i could do it like that cos i did this ordinary melody on my synth it were the jazz organ sounded pretty ordinary untill i messed wit the panoramic eq or summat and the melody sounded phat! it were crazy! n i dont even know how to use vst properly ne site i can read it up, ill just google it but if u no ne let us no thanxs

 

[djemboy2]

using VST, like falling off a log, but less painfull

Hi
Depending on your host, FL Studio, Reason, Cakewalk etc vst instruments and FX get put into your Plugins folder, so for instance FL Studio has a folder called Plugins, you simply put the VST file in there, it will always be a .dll file, sometimes it maybe accompanied by a DAT file (not the audio DAT, but another kind), once its in the folder, you simply go into FL Studio and click Channels, Add and More, down at the bottom of the list is a refresh button, use Fast refresh and it will find all the VST's that were vput in the folder, tick each new one and then close the window, open up the chanels, add and hey presto there are the new VST instuments in red, from there click the one you want and start playing it with your midi keyboard, i use FL Studio all the time because its easy to use, fun and gives back exactley what you want, other programs i find overwhelming with what you have to do to record and build songs, i guess im kinda lazy, but so far i have produced 4 tracks with FL all sound pretty damn good and i would'nt change for anything, hope this helps, what i will say is this, not using VST is so restrictive, with the technology available today the old "well it sounds too machiney" has been kicked right out the window.
Michael
i thought you might like to hear what i last did with fruity loops simply go to www.betarecords.com/djemboy2 and click listen where it says St Elmo' Trance

 

[transformer]

ye thanxs for that ill have to mess bout on it get the jist , that sounds cool man i like the richness in the piano i can never get that sort of richness n feel same with ur organs mine sound bland i must master this vst thing

thanxs dude keep doin ur thing.

 

[sensorium]

Hi
just from my own experience, hardware synths are all very well and good, but are still limited, i have found that using VST synths and Samplers to be much much more productive, flexible and cost effective, you might wanna try that way, personally i use FL Studio, a 790MHZ computer, soundblaster live and VST synths and samplers, my input is done with a Casio CTK 491(probably the crappiest home keyboard ever released, aside from the Casio SK1) and i am able to produce exactley what i want.
Michael

That is the most ignorant thing I have ever read, and every recording studio in the world would disagree with you. Hardware always sounds better and is more flexible, but you have to take advantage of that flexibility by adding your own effects to the sound. You want grime/dirt? Get a Sherman Filterbank. You want space? Get a TC Electronic M3000. You want wackiness? Get a TC Electronic Fireworx.

The reason softsynths get you a sound quicker out of the box is because the sounds are drenched in built in effects (CRAPPY built in effects). Get your own dedicated effects processors and create your OWN sound.

 

[djemboy2]

ignorant?

so i guess the next thing you'll be saying is computers sound to machiney, dude face it if you put a vst M1 next to a real M1 i doubt that you would be able to easily tell the difference, if at all, and when you consider that Hardware in Keyboards is a........computer, unless you believe that there are gerbils in there playing the sounds.
and as far as most studios well they do use VST instruments and Effects and samples. and lets not forget not everyone can afford masses of hardware

 

[sensorium]

and lets not forget not everyone can afford masses of hardware

Then SAVE for it. Everyone's in such a hurry to be a superstar... and we wonder why music has stagnated and everything sounds the same. Because there are too many broke wanna-be musicians who would rather take short cuts. Just SAVE, the old fasioned way, and invest in some quality gear.

 

[transformer]

good point

i never did get good sound in my car untill i bought some alpine!.

i needed some help on my next question i were looking for a new synth i got the korg trinity but i feel the korg sound is not for me. I saw the review dave smith poly evolver which was on the site . i fell in love straight away, Beefy sound in a addictive analog.

i was ready to buy it straight away before i thought .1, Will all my sounds sound all trancey melodys and anology.

rather than the motif Es7 which i were lookin at to. i saw a demo on the sounds and i love it unlike the korg it sounds the sameish but has a extra edge to the sound like a world of a difference.

(korg standard sounds a bit cheery unlike motif has a quality edge, altho ud say processor will take care of that i feel the base im starting from has a significant part in the final signal even if it is on processors)

i luv the motif and the dave smith the only thing im thinking about the dave smith synth is, all the sounds sound so similar im worried that all my beats are going to sound the same or i wont have much versilality like rnb track rather than upbeat hip hop ... like a ludacris latest releases ..analogy

does it have much versality compared to the motif, does it have bank with acoustic pianos that sound not analogy

help me out

 

[Bluedays]

Software does not sound as good as digital hardware! it's getting better all the time, but I wouldn't say it's there yet. As for VST vs Analog hardware, forget it, it doesn't even come close!

IMO the Trinity sounds better than most (if not all) free VSTs. You will have to do some work to get the sounds you want out of it.

here are some things you can try before you invest in new gear:
- Google this: "korg trinity patches" or "korg trinity pcg"
you will find free Trinity programs (they're in .pcg format, you download-load them into the Trinity and you get a whole new list of sounds)
You will also find commercial ones. They're usually better than the free ones (as they are programmed by more experienced users.); look for a demo of the sounds or mp3 file before you buy. (they sometimes give you some free try-before-you-buy patches)

- check out the yahoo Trinity group; there should me info, links, plus ressources there

- Remember that the Trinity has a good number of samples that can be used to create your own sounds. If you're not comfortable with the Trinity interface, you can use software like SoundDiver or SoundQuest to easily edit/make patches from your pc.

- No synth makes it to the final mix without some EQing, Compression, in addition to other effects (Reverb, Delay, Distortion, Chorus...); get yourself a multi-effect processor [as Sensorium said] (or a bunch of stomp-boxes) and read/experiment!

Finally as for the PolyEvolver: it's a synthesizer (not sample-based like the Trinity or Motif).. it has a character of its own, and you can make any synth sound you want on it.. that is if you learn how to program it.
meaning, your tracks will not sound the same as long as you don't use the same patch over and over again

The Motif is a workstation (sample-based sound library, effect engine; sequencer+sampler (on keyboard version only). No point comparing them together.
*If you want analog synth sounds >> PolyEvolver
*if you want real instrument sounds (piano, guitars, brass, strings...) >> Motif or other Workstation..

 

[djemboy2]

VST or hardware

ok this is turning into a ridiculous my amiga's better thas your ST argument, all i was saying was that VST(some not all, and [pretty much not the free ones)are good from the standpoint of being inexpensive, if you try things like Vanguard, Z3TA, FM7, Orchestral, Slayer2, Kontact, Battery and a few others you will find the produce extremely good quality sounds, the opinion that you can only make music if you spend loads of cash is so ridiculous, not to mention Elitist, i can onl;y guess that somebody spent a lot of money on stuff and resents any less expensive way of doing it, anyway im done with this topic, as its gonna go pretty much nowhere, i will say that for the music i crerate VST works and works well.

 

[sensorium]

ok this is turning into a ridiculous my amiga's better thas your ST argument, all i was saying was that VST(some not all, and [pretty much not the free ones)are good from the standpoint of being inexpensive, if you try things like Vanguard, Z3TA, FM7, Orchestral, Slayer2, Kontact, Battery and a few others you will find the produce extremely good quality sounds, the opinion that you can only make music if you spend loads of cash is so ridiculous, not to mention Elitist, i can onl;y guess that somebody spent a lot of money on stuff and resents any less expensive way of doing it, anyway im done with this topic, as its gonna go pretty much nowhere, i will say that for the music i crerate VST works and works well.

Don't get me wrong, I have the Korg Legacy Package, Arturia CS-80V, Battery 2, Reaktor......they are all nice, but anyone who says they are as good as hardware......hasn't ever played their analog hardware predessors. period.

TRANSFORMER- You won't be dissapointed with the Polyevolver. It is freakin awesome. If you want tru analog on a budget, get a Oberheim Matrix-1000 , then run it through some effects. I love those things.

 

[Tyree D.]

I **** with happy hardcore and candykids

 

[bryanm]

Hardware always sounds better and is more flexible

The reason softsynths get you a sound quicker out of the box is because the sounds are drenched in built in effects (CRAPPY built in effects). Get your own dedicated effects processors and create your OWN sound.

I think ^^^THAT^^^ is the most ignorant thing ive ever read. What controls hardware? SOFTWARE! Thats right. Any hardware you buy, has software inside that controls it. The only difference between hardware and computer based **** is the control surface. Your using the hardware to control the software on one, and your using the mouse/keyboard/whatever else to control the software on the other. Flexibility? dont even get me started.

Sick of people thinking the way you do. Stop telling people that ****. I acually prefer using hardware AND software together. If you know what your doing it doesnt matter what you use. Period.

 

[DonaldCrunk]

I think ^^^THAT^^^ is the most ignorant thing ive ever read. What controls hardware? SOFTWARE! Thats right. Any hardware you buy, has software inside that controls it. The only difference between hardware and computer based **** is the control surface. Your using the hardware to control the software on one, and your using the mouse/keyboard/whatever else to control the software on the other. Flexibility? dont even get me started.

Sick of people thinking the way you do. Stop telling people that ****. I acually prefer using hardware AND software together. If you know what your doing it doesnt matter what you use. Period.

you're right to say that software can be more flexible than hardware - absynth and reaktor come to mind - but at the same time, it's pretty ignorant to say that "software controls all hardware, so it sounds the same". Aside from the large number of synthesizers and keyboards who use absolutely nothing that could be termed as software, keyboards that use software have dedicated hardware components for that software to run on.

instead of having to share processing power with an OS, GUI, whatever viruses you've picked up from the internet etc, you've got an actual musical instrument that is generally more reliable and more consistent.

also, running all your sounds sources through 1 sound card (no matter how good it is) imparts the same "sheen" to that sound, and that's not always desirable. Seperate D/A convertors are a good thing.

there's more advantages to hardware depending on what kind of music you do, and whether or not you'd consider yourself an actual 'musician', but those are the main ones for people that do urban types of music.

 

[sensorium]

I think ^^^THAT^^^ is the most ignorant thing ive ever read. What controls hardware? SOFTWARE! Thats right. Any hardware you buy, has software inside that controls it. The only difference between hardware and computer based **** is the control surface. Your using the hardware to control the software on one, and your using the mouse/keyboard/whatever else to control the software on the other. Flexibility? dont even get me started.

Thanks for breaking your own record on ignorance. The only thing software in an analog machine is the Operating Ststem. Everything else is controlled by analog potentiometers and resistors and voice cards. The only way REAL analog sounds can be created. Emulate all you want with software. It's the sincerest form of flattery to their analog forefathers....but when you want quality sounds at a price, instead of cheap bargain emulations, come on over. If you can't tell the difference in sound, you have no business making music.

 

[Bluedays]

(...) the opinion that you can only make music if you spend loads of cash is so ridiculous, not to mention Elitist, i can onl;y guess that somebody spent a lot of money on stuff and resents any less expensive way of doing it,

that's not my opinion! (read my post again)
I advised transformer on how he can make the most out of his Trinity (before he invests in something else! be it hardware synths or software!!)

Professional musicians spend "loads of cash" to buy quality instruments (such things exist!); they're not for everybody. Specially not the hobbyist or the home musician, yet some people overdo it... It's a pity because most of time, those who own loads of gear can't make music to save their life! (that's my official opinion )

There are many nice commercial VSTs, but like sensorium said..

...The only thing software in an analog machine is the Operating System. Everything else is controlled by analog potentiometers and resistors and voice cards. The only way REAL analog sounds can be created. (...)

I personally don't know of any software emulation that sounds better than its hardware counterpart; even when the original manufacturer made the software version!

i will say that for the music i crerate VST works and works well.

you obviously have never owned a good piece of gear! one that reminds you -every time you use it- how much it is vital to your music.

In the end it doesn't matter what you use.. as long as it inspires you to make good music! And when you get to a point where you think you need better quality / more features... you can always upgrade.