Guitar Center Is A Joke!

[BronzeLight]

The critical posts above indicate a pretty severe cluelessness. Much the way the US military does their best recruiting in economically deprived and marginalized areas, the way corporations exploit people is by using economic coercion: they hire people in the most need, with the least resources to do anything about it. This is very much the case, of course, in developing countries but it is also the case in the US. The best way to exploit people is to keep the investment class fat and rich while the working class suffers and worries and stresses.

GC Is A Joke made a well thought out and informative post, and no, he is not guilty for having worked there longer than it took him to figure this out. If you think that economic coercion doesn't apply to us in the US (because we're sooo wealthy and free), you are sadly mistaken. I think GC can empower himself; I think his post indicates he is starting to do that.

The tone of his post was not whiny; you are simply mistaken to imply that it was. It was informative.

The guy above me (He states only females get emotional about work, then criticizes GC for not growing up. I guess he misses the irony there) and the other poster with the "Care Bear", they are shining examples of a striking feature of such a system: if people are disempowered and marginalized enough that it just becomes an intrinsic part of the society/culture, they internalize this, and star to treat each other with cruelty. Or maybe that's just what they are. In either case, it doesn't say great things about their character.


The critical posters above need to make a distinction: GC's post was detailed and informative. He laid out the policies he observed at Guitar Center. He does not ask you to send him money, nor does he say he is powerless to do anything about it and "woe is me." The post is informative. This care bear stuff and the rest is, ironically given your position, pathetic. Any rational and reasonably informed perspective on how this kind of system works: legal, criminal justice and prosecution, legislative, economic etc, necessitates compassion and understanding of the above. It necessitates solidarity among the "common" people. In other words, if you really comprehended this reality, you wouldn't have made your post dissing him. The absence of that understanding and solidarity is how they stay in power and you stay out of it.


Once again, I don't believe GC_Is_A_Joke has to live with this kind of exploitation. I think he can empower himself, move on, learn from it, raise awareness, and take action. I think his post demonstrates that's what he is doing.

 

[fts1981]

The critical posts above indicate a pretty severe cluelessness. Much the way the US military does their best recruiting in economically deprived and marginalized areas, the way corporations exploit people is by using economic coercion: they hire people in the most need, with the least resources to do anything about it. This is very much the case, of course, in developing countries but it is also the case in the US. The best way to exploit people is to keep the investment class fat and rich while the working class suffers and worries and stresses.

GC Is A Joke made a well thought out and informative post, and no, he is not guilty for having worked there longer than it took him to figure this out. If you think that economic coercion doesn't apply to us in the US (because we're sooo wealthy and free), you are sadly mistaken. I think GC can empower himself; I think his post indicates he is starting to do that.

The tone of his post was not whiny; you are simply mistaken to imply that it was. It was informative.

The guy above me (they call him Mr. Music! And he states only females get emotional about work, then criticizes GC for not growing up. I guess he misses the irony there) and the other poster with the "Care Bear", they are shining examples of a striking feature of such a system: if people are disempowered and marginalized enough that it just becomes an intrinsic part of the society/culture, they internalize this, and star to treat each other with cruelty. Or maybe that's just what they are. In either case, it doesn't say great things about their character.


The critical posters above need to make a distinction: GC's post was detailed and informative. He laid out the policies he observed at Guitar Center. He does not ask you to send him money, nor does he say he is powerless to do anything about it and "woe is me." The post is informative. This care bear stuff and the rest is, ironically given your position, pathetic. Any rational and reasonably informed perspective on how this kind of system works: legal, criminal justice and prosecution, legislative, economic etc, necessitates compassion and understanding of the above. It necessitates solidarity among the "common" people. In other words, if you really comprehended this reality, you wouldn't have made your post dissing him. The absence of that understanding and solidarity is how they stay in power and you stay out of it.


Once again, I don't believe GC_Is_A_Joke has to live with this kind of exploitation. I think he can empower himself, move on, learn from it, raise awareness, and take action. I think his post demonstrates that's what he is doing.

While most of what you're saying sounds great (albeit a bit repetitive), he is doing nothing but whining. He should quit the job if he feels he is being taken advantage of so badly. Guitar Center is going to do whatever it takes to make money. They are a corporation. We live in an extremely capitalist society, and if you understand how capitalism works then their methods should be expected. Move to France if you don't like it. I've thought about it. LOL

 

[dvyce]

You should get used to this because pretty much all regular jobs suck.

I don't see anything "illegal" that they are doing (as someone claimed earlier)... Just because you don't know what the actual cost they are basing your commission on is, does not mean there is not some set actual amount.

They don't just arbitrarily change the numbers randomly. When you sell something, you know there is some cost and some add on, and some freight...


Basically, you are working on commissions and are being paid an advance on those commissions. You get your commissions when your advance (paid to you as a salary) is recouped. You are getting commissions with a guarantee of a certain amount.

...it is structured very much the same way as a record deal.



And you can't compare it to a pizza delivery guy and his tips. Tips are not the same as commissions. Commissions are defined payments from your employer based on a set amount related to sales you make... Tips are voluntary payments from a customer of an amount based on his own discretion.


Every company has to worry about their costs and profits.

Do you think GC is the only place that plays music with licensing fees they can afford? Why do you think "Muzak" was created?


Where do the "profits" go? There are a LOT of costs to cover before there are any "profits".... their giant stores... their huge advertising campaigns... their warehouses... their maintenance... their electricity/phone bills... their returns... etc, etc, etc

(The thing is, even if a company has the best intentions and wants to provide a happy, supportive and nurturing workplace, they still have to deal with these realities and they still have to cover costs.)

Not to mention the fact that they are losing so many sales to online retailers who can sell products cheaper than the stores like GC.



If you don't like what is happening at GC, you are not going to like it anywhere you work... that's life... it sucks.



(of course, this is a generality... not everything sucks... just mostly everything.)

 

[BronzeLight]

While most of what you're saying sounds great (albeit a bit repetitive), he is doing nothing but whining. He should quit the job if he feels he is being taken advantage of so badly. Guitar Center is going to do whatever it takes to make money. They are a corporation. We live in an extremely capitalist society, and if you understand how capitalism works then their methods should be expected. Move to France if you don't like it. I've thought about it. LOL

Thank you. I'm sorry I don't mean to quarrel with you; I would just suggest we consider the actual definition of the word capitalism, and note that we don't have anything like it. What we have is Statism. Basically, a welfare state for the investment class. Massive subsidies go to defense industry, big oil and other corporations while severe consequences for the working class and poor go mostly unnoticed. It's a welfare state for the rich, an extremely interventionist one.

I think capitalism would be a great idea actually; certainly an improvement.

I agree with you about corporations; that's what they do. That is what they will always do unless compelled to do otherwise. Unfortunately, those same corporations virtually own the legislative and executive bodies of our government. Thus the need for us to take action.

Again I don't mean to be contentious, but I'm not sure how you mean it when you say GC whines in his post. It doesn't sound that way to me. He layed out the facts, as he sees them. He's doing something. Whining would be doing nothing and working there another ten years while his health and his relationships deteriorate. His, mine or your task would not be to move to France (although like you I would love to get a place there...), but to take action to correct extreme injustice. If a system was supposed to be of and for the people but no longer is, would that mean they should move if they don't like it? That seems pretty questionable to me. I think they should take action.

In my view, if speaking out on something is "whining", and dissatisfaction with a system means you should leave the country- people would forever move and move again until there was no place left to go, and then discover the thing to do was to take one place and work for fairness and justice. If people never did that and only moved to France or somewhere else, it seems to me we wouldn't have a civil rights movement, would not have a women's rights movement or animal rights movement. I think our job is to take action here and now.


Thank you for your thoughts and for your time.

 

[dvyce]

I agree with you about corporations; that's what they do. That is what they will always do unless compelled to do otherwise. Unfortunately, those same corporations virtually own the legislative and executive bodies of our government. Thus the need for us to take action.

that is a rather broad statement. "Corporations" in general do not necessarily share any moral characteristics. Plus, not all corporations "virtually own the legislative and executive bodies of our government"... most corporations don't have any pull with the government at all... most are pretty inconsequential.

In particular, I am sure that Guitar Center is not directing the government in much of any way at all.

Guitar Center is just a basic chain store.

While most of what you're saying sounds great (albeit a bit repetitive), he is doing nothing but whining. He should quit the job if he feels he is being taken advantage of so badly. Guitar Center is going to do whatever it takes to make money. They are a corporation. We live in an extremely capitalist society, and if you understand how capitalism works then their methods should be expected. Move to France if you don't like it. I've thought about it. LOL

Forget about "corporations"... GC is not trying to make money because[i/] they are a "corporation"... they are trying to make money because you have to make money to survive.

Even a little "mom and pop" store has to do whatever it takes to make money. They have to buy the products they sell (or the raw materials to make the product they sell)... they have to pay rent... they have to pay phone bills... electric bills... salaries... insurance... repairs... etc, etc...

It is very hard to make a profit in any business.


...and to be honest with you, I am surprised that GC makes any profit at ALL. They have these huge locations and do so much advertising... when most of what they sell is some guitar strings and a midi cable. In fact, I'm surprised they can even stay in business. (Do you know how many of those cheapo guitars they have to sell to cover the rent on their 25,000 sq ft store in NYC? at $45/sq ft they are paying $93,750/month... and that is not even including electric/phones/maintenance/repair/damages/salaries/etc)

People who don't know about business tend to think that the person they are working for is raking in so much cash and that they are just out to screw the employees. Most businesses are not making anybody rich.

 

[BronzeLight]

that is a rather broad statement. "Corporations" in general do not necessarily share any moral characteristics. Plus, not all corporations "virtually own the legislative and executive bodies of our government"... most corporations don't have any pull with the government at all... most are pretty inconsequential.

In particular, I am sure that Guitar Center is not directing the government in much of any way at all.

Guitar Center is just a basic chain store.





Forget about "corporations"... GC is not trying to make money because[i/] they are a "corporation"... they are trying to make money because you have to make money to survive.

Even a little "mom and pop" store has to do whatever it takes to make money. They have to buy the products they sell (or the raw materials to make the product they sell)... they have to pay rent... they have to pay phone bills... electric bills... salaries... insurance... repairs... etc, etc...

It is very hard to make a profit in any business.


...and to be honest with you, I am surprised that GC makes any profit at ALL. They have these huge locations and do so much advertising... when most of what they sell is some guitar strings and a midi cable. In fact, I'm surprised they can even stay in business. (Do you know how many of those cheapo guitars they have to sell to cover the rent on their 25,000 sq ft store in NYC? at $45/sq ft they are paying $93,750/month... and that is not even including electric/phones/maintenance/repair/damages/salaries/etc)

People who don't know about business tend to think that the person they are working for is raking in so much cash and that they are just out to screw the employees. Most businesses are not making anybody rich.

dvyce I was not even remotely suggesting that Guitar Center owns, controls, or otherwise has any kind of influence on the US government. I was responding to a comment about "capitalism", and pointing out that though capitalism would be nice to try, the power corporations wield over our executive and legislative branches is massive, and as these corporations act in their own self interest (naturally), capitalism as a concept quickly gives way to corporate kleptocracy.

I fully agree with you that any individual Guitar Center would have a challenge just to survive. I totally understand they are not subsidized by Congress ; ).

As to your thoughts on continuity in their character, I think i'm going to respectfully dissent on that. Anyone can incorporate and there are corporations and LLC's out there with high moral standards, an intent to both "make a profit and make a difference", as I believe Ben & Jerry's has stated.

On the whole though, and as you said yourself in your last paragraph, it is a corporations job to make money for themselves, their stockholders, their executives. It is only natural then that if they can save ten cents a unit by importing a component from Thailand, even if that endangers the environment (because of the realities of transport), and exploits under privileged workers and cuts others out of a job, they will do it. Corporations are usually top down propositions, and following that basic law of survival you outline above, one does tend to see a fairly predictable moral (or amoral, if you like) character. The people making these decisions wouldn't be doing their jobs if they did otherwise.

Thus, you have a situation where unless they are compelled by law to do otherwise, corporations will naturally be exploitive organisms who act in their own self interest without regard for the consequences to the larger society, the environment, etc. It's just natural. It's a bottom line thing.

Thus, the moral character. Again, I acknowledge that is a generalization. You definitely (and i find this encouraging) have companies that are the exceptions that prove the rule, such as Newman's Own funding summer camps for sick children, but on the whole, in my opinion, you find a predictable character.



Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[dvyce]

dvyce I was not even remotely suggesting that Guitar Center owns, controls, or otherwise has any kind of influence on the US government. I was responding to a comment about "capitalism", and pointing out that though capitalism would be nice to try, the power corporations wield over our executive and legislative branches is massive, and as these corporations act in their own self interest (naturally), capitalism as a concept quickly gives way to corporate kleptocracy.

Well, you were talking about GC as it stands as a corporation...

You were also talking about the influence coroprations have on government in that same breath...

Maybe you were not trying to include GC in the category of corporations that "weild massive power over our executive and legislative branches", but I would say at the very least, you were "remotely suggesting" it.

I fully agree with you that any individual Guitar Center would have a challenge just to survive. I totally understand they are not subsidized by Congress ; ).

I don't know where being subsidised by congress factors into this...

As to your thoughts on continuity in their character, I think i'm going to respectfully dissent on that. Anyone can incorporate and there are corporations and LLC's out there with high moral standards, an intent to both "make a profit and make a difference", as I believe Ben & Jerry's has stated.

You seem not to understand what I was saying. I never said that corporations in general have low moreal standards. I said the opposite of that. I said that they do NOT necessarily share any moral characteristics. You can have a corporation that exists purely for the good of mankind... and you can have a corporation that exists only to exploit the weak and prosper at any cost to society. (i.e., those 2 corporations I described do not share any moral characteristics between eachother... one is "good"... one is "evil")


And, like i said, even a company like Ben&Jerry's has to make profits to survive and they may struggle to do so. This may include their employees making less money than they would like... this may include the employees not being allowed to take breaks whenever they want... this may include the employees not being able to choose the hours they work... this may include the employees not being allowed to eat all the free ice cream they want...

On the whole though, and as you said yourself in your last paragraph, it is a corporations job to make money for themselves, their stockholders, their executives. It is only natural then that if they can save ten cents a unit by importing a component from Thailand, even if that endangers the environment (because of the realities of transport), and exploits under privileged workers and cuts others out of a job, they will do it. Corporations are usually top down propositions, and following that basic law of survival you outline above, one does tend to see a fairly predictable moral (or amoral, if you like) character. The people making these decisions wouldn't be doing their jobs if they did otherwise.

I surely did not say that.

I have never said that it is natural for a corporation to use morally suspect means to acheive their end.

I didn't even say that GC is doing anything out of line.


Yes, a corporation (like any other business) is designed to make a profit... but that surely does not imply that they will do that in a way that is morally corrupt.

It is not "natural" that a corporation will purchase items from sweatshops just because they are less expensive.

Thus, you have a situation where unless they are compelled by law to do otherwise, corporations will naturally be exploitive organisms who act in their own self interest without regard for the consequences to the larger society, the environment, etc. It's just natural. It's a bottom line thing.

That is just silly.

You can act "in your own self interest" without being "exploitive"...

One persons survival is not dependent of another persons destruction.


So, you are saying that if you own a corporation, you will exploit people as much as you can to make your money? Your goal will naturally be to exploit people to the maximum extent which the law allows? That the only way to have a successful coproration/business is to operate in a way which exploits your workers and the environment? and if you did anything other than that you "wouldn't be doing your job"?

Thus, the moral character. Again, I acknowledge that is a generalization. You definitely (and i find this encouraging) have companies that are the exceptions that prove the rule, such as Newman's Own funding summer camps for sick children, but on the whole, in my opinion, you find a predictable character.

I would say it makes no sense to say someone could be generally classified as "immoral" simply be virtue of their business classification.