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dj jochen
Guest
don't buy a mixer with a BPM-counter , because I think you don't learn to mix than .Does anyone agree ?
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Angelic DeeJay
The Infamous NetRat
Not true at all!
i got the DJM-300 and i can mix like hell!
BPM is not something u can count on, if u got 2 songs playing and the BPM display 132BPM on both that doesn't mean that they are the same...
BPM will only help u, eventually ur ears are in the bottom line
i don't use BPM anymore, but it sure helped me when i first started
i got the DJM-300 and i can mix like hell!
BPM is not something u can count on, if u got 2 songs playing and the BPM display 132BPM on both that doesn't mean that they are the same...
BPM will only help u, eventually ur ears are in the bottom line
i don't use BPM anymore, but it sure helped me when i first started
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dj jochen
Guest
I think a BPM-counter is handy ,but if you go spin in a club for example and you don't have a beatcounter can you mix as good than as with a BPM-counter ?
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wooter
New member
Well... personally i think basing your mixing skills on a bpm counter is bad, and you won't get too far with that...
But on the other side, it can be handy when you know how to mix, but aren't accustomed to the surroundings...
For example: at home i have my Numark DM2000 without bpm counter... I don't care for bpm anyway... So i mix fairly good at home... But last week i did a gig and there wasn't no monitor, neither the possibility to control the volume of my headphones so that i could get the master out in my headphones... On any gig, the sound volume is most certainly harder than in your bedroom, so the surroundings are totally different...
I was mixing on a DJM-500 and the bpm counter on that thing - although i didn't use it that much - gave some indication wheither i was completely wrong with my next track, or wheither i was getting close...
So... yea, it can help when you're a bit uncertain and you can't afford a screwup... More stress because you can't beatmix correctly while doing one of your first live gigs is something you can miss after all
But on the other side, it can be handy when you know how to mix, but aren't accustomed to the surroundings...
For example: at home i have my Numark DM2000 without bpm counter... I don't care for bpm anyway... So i mix fairly good at home... But last week i did a gig and there wasn't no monitor, neither the possibility to control the volume of my headphones so that i could get the master out in my headphones... On any gig, the sound volume is most certainly harder than in your bedroom, so the surroundings are totally different...
I was mixing on a DJM-500 and the bpm counter on that thing - although i didn't use it that much - gave some indication wheither i was completely wrong with my next track, or wheither i was getting close...
So... yea, it can help when you're a bit uncertain and you can't afford a screwup... More stress because you can't beatmix correctly while doing one of your first live gigs is something you can miss after all
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Angelic DeeJay
The Infamous NetRat
dj jochen said:
You are missing the whole point!, BPM IS NOT AN ACCURATE THING!, u can't count on it, it's just another +...
i can mix without BPM, cos' i don't use it anymore
if ur just getting started DJing than BPM will help u and it will be harder to mix with out it, but COME ON! lets be >REALISTIC< guys!, which newbie DJ ever played in a club or a rave???, IF a newbie DJ ever play to a crowd, thats on small gigs or small clubs where he needs to bring his own gear...
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dj0ddie
Guest
I think beat counters are a neat toy, but not something you can rely on. Hell, I learned how to mix on a piece of crap $20 scratch mixer. A long way down the road and several mixers later, I finally got a mixer with a BPM counter and to say the least, the BPM counters only confirmed what I already knew. If you know how to mix before you even think about using BPM counters, they're nice to have. If you want to learn, don't use beat counters. You'll start using them as a crutch, and when you play a gig where there's no BPM counter (which is usually the case) you'll go belly up and train wreck like there's no tomorrow. Frankly, BPM counters are extremely overrated. They can display misleading information (as noted before in a previous response), are slow (it takes 10 sec. to calculate, which is 10 sec. slower than I can it myself), and they get thrown off in sections of music where there's no bass to be had. The beat offset indicator on some mixers (particularly the Gemini BPM series) is in a similar realm, although I find it much more useful. In conclusion, beat counters are useful only for confirming what you already know and impressing your friends.
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Alex TC
Guest
Tapping ur feet is the best BPM counter!
I agree w/ Angelic, BPM counters are not accurate to the point of total reliability. IMO it's usefull to one figure out the ballparks and still only in very specific occasions, like less-than-perfect clubs and gigs enviroments, BUT a dj should know his tunes well enough to figure that out too, at least IMO.
Pio has the most precise and reliable BPM counters, but even when using the BPM synced effects on my djm 600 I still tap the tempo into it instead of just rely on the auto bpm.
And IMO BPM X good mixing has nothing to do, as BPM only means the tempo of the 2 tracks is the same but still the dj must drop in and adjust this sync and all the other processes that involve mixing. That's the Achiles' tendon of the Automix on the CMX 5K, it can match the tempos pretty good (even better than some jocks!
) but can't figure out the exact point to cue and enter the new track... = bad mixing in more than 80% of the times.
TIP
P.S. A good tip to minimize the risk of getting caugh in a trap like not having good equipment or bad monitoring situations is to write down the BPM of ur tracks in the label of the tunes, so u sort of know in advance which ones go with others, and also if one track is pitched up or down u can somewhat predict the need for pitching up or down the following track. That makes for flash syncro of tunes in any place!
[Edited by Alex TC on 01-06-2001 at 11:36 AM]
I agree w/ Angelic, BPM counters are not accurate to the point of total reliability. IMO it's usefull to one figure out the ballparks and still only in very specific occasions, like less-than-perfect clubs and gigs enviroments, BUT a dj should know his tunes well enough to figure that out too, at least IMO.
Pio has the most precise and reliable BPM counters, but even when using the BPM synced effects on my djm 600 I still tap the tempo into it instead of just rely on the auto bpm.
And IMO BPM X good mixing has nothing to do, as BPM only means the tempo of the 2 tracks is the same but still the dj must drop in and adjust this sync and all the other processes that involve mixing. That's the Achiles' tendon of the Automix on the CMX 5K, it can match the tempos pretty good (even better than some jocks!
) but can't figure out the exact point to cue and enter the new track... = bad mixing in more than 80% of the times.TIP
P.S. A good tip to minimize the risk of getting caugh in a trap like not having good equipment or bad monitoring situations is to write down the BPM of ur tracks in the label of the tunes, so u sort of know in advance which ones go with others, and also if one track is pitched up or down u can somewhat predict the need for pitching up or down the following track. That makes for flash syncro of tunes in any place!
[Edited by Alex TC on 01-06-2001 at 11:36 AM]
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Angelic DeeJay
The Infamous NetRat
The man has spoken!
thank u Alex! my sentiments exactly!
not to offend any1, but saying a mixer with BPM will "harm" ur mixing mojo is stupid, and i'm a live example for this! i mix just as well without BPM as i do with it
us DJs are not just plain beat mixers, we are artists!
thank u Alex! my sentiments exactly!
not to offend any1, but saying a mixer with BPM will "harm" ur mixing mojo
is stupid, and i'm a live example for this! i mix just as well without BPM as i do with itus DJs are not just plain beat mixers, we are artists!
Dj Thy
Quartzlocked Weirdo
Yup, probably the best BPM counter ever made is... the human ear.
You can use BPM counters as a help for mixing, but don't base all your skills on the counter!!!
And like Alex said : mixing isn't only getting two (or more) tunes in sync, it's a lot more than that!!! Finding the right spots, using tricks, harmonic mixing, ...
And what wooter says is true too. The first time you have to play on a big gig is kinda weird, cuz the sound is completely different. And if there aren't monitors, it's even more difficult... But you get used to it pretty fast.
And it goes even more faster if you are relaxed and are having fun. Shake that booty (but don't hit the TT's!!!)
You can use BPM counters as a help for mixing, but don't base all your skills on the counter!!!
And like Alex said : mixing isn't only getting two (or more) tunes in sync, it's a lot more than that!!! Finding the right spots, using tricks, harmonic mixing, ...
And what wooter says is true too. The first time you have to play on a big gig is kinda weird, cuz the sound is completely different. And if there aren't monitors, it's even more difficult... But you get used to it pretty fast.
And it goes even more faster if you are relaxed and are having fun. Shake that booty (but don't hit the TT's!!!)
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wooter
New member
> And what wooter says is true too. The first time you have to play on a big gig is kinda weird, cuz the sound is completely different. And if there aren't monitors, it's even more difficult... But you get used to it pretty fast.
And it goes even more faster if you are relaxed and are having fun. Shake that booty (but don't hit the TT's!!!)
Don't get me started on crappy gigs... First gig was at a place where the Ecler mixer was going all the way into the red (so much for adjusting gain), a too quiet monitor (wha? i can't hear ya!) and skipping needles (since then i bring my own, really)...
And my last gig was at a place without monitor and - beware - a wooden floor... You don't want people jumping in front of your decks there
You had to quietly shuffle to your record box and back or else the needle might skip
Gigging can be hell... enjoy
And it goes even more faster if you are relaxed and are having fun. Shake that booty (but don't hit the TT's!!!)
Don't get me started on crappy gigs... First gig was at a place where the Ecler mixer was going all the way into the red (so much for adjusting gain), a too quiet monitor (wha? i can't hear ya!) and skipping needles (since then i bring my own, really)...
And my last gig was at a place without monitor and - beware - a wooden floor... You don't want people jumping in front of your decks there
You had to quietly shuffle to your record box and back or else the needle might skip Gigging can be hell... enjoy
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Tricky
Guest
I know im jumpin into this topic kinda late But what the heck
Ok well to say that buying a mixer with BPM readouts is stupid is like saying buying a car with a RPM meter is stupid.
I have the DJ 2000. The BPM readout is not automatic which is a big boon. I dont have to constantly look at changing numbers . What i will like to say is that the DJ 2000 has accurate BPM display, takes a little while to read out but once its done its readin its pretty accurate. The efx syncing is spot on. I havnt used the DJM 600 so i wont comment on that. I never use BPM displays to aid my mix. In fact what i do is tag all my records with the BPM of the song on it, this way i dont even need 20 seconds to set the right pitcht to mix two tracks. I find myself not using the headphones as much as i used to do.
You ears are the big players here. Take care of them and u have the bestest BPM counters ever !
But what the heck Ok well to say that buying a mixer with BPM readouts is stupid is like saying buying a car with a RPM meter is stupid.
I have the DJ 2000. The BPM readout is not automatic which is a big boon. I dont have to constantly look at changing numbers
. What i will like to say is that the DJ 2000 has accurate BPM display, takes a little while to read out but once its done its readin its pretty accurate. The efx syncing is spot on. I havnt used the DJM 600 so i wont comment on that. I never use BPM displays to aid my mix. In fact what i do is tag all my records with the BPM of the song on it, this way i dont even need 20 seconds to set the right pitcht to mix two tracks. I find myself not using the headphones as much as i used to do. You ears are the big players here. Take care of them and u have the bestest BPM counters ever !
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dj jochen
Guest
I don't have experience with a BPM-counter ,so I can't give an opinion .It's just that the local dealer here say's that I'd better don't buy a mixer with BPM-counter , but you guys convinced me that BPM-counters are not that bad . thanks .