Does 50 Cent have to pay Dr Dre...

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Fort Apache

Fort Apache

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for using his beats? I know that 50 is signed to Shady/Aftermath but when he uses a Dre beat, does he have to pay for it? If so who pays for that...Interscope?

I would think he doesn't have to pay for it because Dre receives money through other means from 50 (album sales, publishing, etc...). But I remember hearing or reading that an artist on Aftermath couldn't afford more then two beats from Dre (maybe I didn't understand what they were saying).
 
Yes, technically he does have to pay.

Interscope Records (a corporation) pays 50's album advances to G-Unit Records (another corporation). 50 selects which producers he wants for his album and once the songs officially make the album, payment is made to those producers (individuals, LLCs or corporations). However many beats by Dre he uses, G-Unit Records pays Aftermath Records (a separate corporation) whatever Dre's production fee for those tracks is. At the end of the fiscal year these payment transactions have to be reported to the IRS so everything has to flow through the right channels for tax purposes.

Keep in mind that G-Unit/Shady/Aftermath are joint ventures. Shady/Aftermath is 50/50 and G-Unit/Shady is 50/50. That means Shady and Aftermath pitch in some of 50's recording budget. In any event, there's no free lunch, so whatever Dre charges gets taken from the budget. He may not charge as much as he would normally charge another artist, but who knows, since business is business maybe he does.

Hope this helps.
 
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Ok take for example Saigon and Just Blaze (Lets just assume Saigon was still under Atlantic which he is not).
Saigon is signed to Fort Knoxx (Just Blaze's label) and Fort Knoxx is under Atlantic. Atlantic pays for most of Saigon's recording budget and out of that, Saigon has to pay for what ever Just Blaze tracks he uses with the buget Atlantic gave him? I would think Saigon wouldnt have to pay Just for beats since he's directly signed to Just and Saigon is Just Blaze's artist.

Basically what Im asking is: If I were to obtain a label deal through an indy or major and sign an artist, that artist has to pay me for my production with the recording budget that the parent label has provided for the artist?
 
Fort Apache said:
Ok take for example Saigon and Just Blaze (Lets just assume Saigon was still under Atlantic which he is not).
Saigon is signed to Fort Knoxx (Just Blaze's label) and Fort Knoxx is under Atlantic. Atlantic pays for most of Saigon's recording budget and out of that, Saigon has to pay for what ever Just Blaze tracks he uses with the buget Atlantic gave him? I would think Saigon wouldnt have to pay Just for beats since he's directly signed to Just and Saigon is Just Blaze's artist.

Basically what Im asking is: If I were to obtain a label deal through an indy or major and sign an artist, that artist has to pay me for my production with the recording budget that the parent label has provided for the artist?
Click to expand...

Yes. Think about it...the money that the label advances to the artist for recording can be used to record the album and also to spend however they want. Some artists get their advance, then they spend a little on production and recording costs, and then live off of the rest. How do you think all these artists get the money to buy chains and cars? From their advance...

When you get this label deal and give your artist a recording budget, you can give them free beats if you want...but if they want to use other producers too, your label will have to pay them from this recording budget. The indie or major you have a label deal with will definitely keep track of how the money is spent because they are looking to recoup (or get that money back) from sales in the future. So if you don't charge your artist and they spend the advance on other producer's beats and a new chain, how are you going to get paid? Only on the backend royalties? I would think you would want some upfront money as well, right? That's where your production fee comes in. Every major producer does it...

If you don't charge your artist for production, then that money that he is advanced by the label for recording and production costs doesn't even see your hands, it gets spent on other producers and new kicks, fits, whips, and chains.
 
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Damn no wonder Lox wanted out of BadBoy. Besides Puff owning I believe half of their publishing, he probably was charging them produder's fee as well.


Thanks Technikal
 
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he charges
id imagine 50 can negotiate a lil by now
but he still has to pay out of the budget
(not exactly the advance...they wouldnt give a rapper ALL of the money theyre going to put aside for their project and expect them to use it well)
 
Technically 50 doesn't even have to ask Dre. As long as he put's Dre's name on it. Dre would get 100% of the publishing and 50% of the songwriting.

Also there are statutory royalty right that will be disbursed on the back end.

There a mechanical fee in which the artist get's a nickel for every physical copy produced. There are performance fee's as well. Every time 50 get's an airplay or performs the song live he has to pay Dre.

There is a lot more but I seem to notice that a lot of people aren't aware of the other half of the deal which is songwriting and statutory royalties.

If you sell a beat as a work for hire then you sacrifice all of your rights. You sell a beat that goes platinum and don't ask for back-end, which you should always do, you will watch someone make millions off of your work while you sit there broke wondering what happened....

You should always consult an attorney.

I have been looking into the "leasing of beat's" related to the above and it really is a bad business practice because it creates Grey areas that may make it useless to have a play count.

Unless they are using soundscan and getting airplay how can you prove how many plays they have used?

I'm still not clear on the practice also, if anyone can provide me more info I can look into it.

I'm not trying to boast or make outrageous claims but I bill $100/hr. for the advice I give. I'm in here becasue FP helped me get to this point in my career.

maybe that might explain a bit why I have been so frustrated with troup. I am really trying to help...

I can handle immensely more complaex issues for a fee.

I spoke with several reputable entertainment lawyers in establishing my rate. I charge 1/3rd of the rate of an attorney and have an attorney approve everything I do before I can file anything.

People on here have been saying "I got publishing rights to disperse" this is all hype. In order to disperse rights you have to either be an attorney or a CPA. An attorney does dispersion for me. I jsut mail out the checks.

There is alot to learn and I'm wondering why there isn't a whole catagory dedicated to business on here....

Knowing your shyt opens doors. If you can walk up to an untouchable A&R and have an intellecual conversation with him about the business you will have a better shot. Walking up to an A&R and saying "Ima bout to blow up!" will only make him worry that when you do in fact explode you may stain his new suit lol

that's my $.02

I'm getting on a Greyhound headed for DC in about 5 hours. I bet that place is getting crazy.

One more thing. President Obama (that sounds good) is the man responsible for setting the stautory royalty rates. There a reason Hollywood got behind him the way they did. He is supposed to give everyone a raise this year. for some artists the 1/2% increase will equal million for them.

Also all of the above stuff in not federal law. I was enacted by a lose set of rulings by the New York court system I think like 60 years ago...

OddBirdEntertainment said:
Technically 50 doesn't even have to ask Dre. As long as he put's Dre's name on it. Dre would get 100% of the publishing and 50% of the songwriting.

Also there are statutory royalty right that will be disbursed on the back end.

There a mechanical fee in which the artist get's a nickel for every physical copy produced. There are performance fee's as well. Every time 50 get's an airplay or performs the song live he has to pay Dre.

There is a lot more but I seem to notice that a lot of people aren't aware of the other half of the deal which is songwriting and statutory royalties.




If you sell a beat as a work for hire then you sacrifice all of your rights. You sell a beat that goes platinum and don't ask for back-end, which you should always do, you will watch someone make millions off of your work while you sit there broke wondering what happened....

You should always consult an attorney.

I have been looking into the "leasing of beat's" related to the above and it really is a bad business practice because it creates Grey areas that may make it useless to have a play count.

Unless they are using soundscan and getting airplay how can you prove how many plays they have used?

I'm still not clear on the practice also, if anyone can provide me more info I can look into it.

I'm not trying to boast or make outrageous claims but I bill $100/hr. for the advice I give. I'm in here becasue FP helped me get to this point in my career.

maybe that might explain a bit why I have been so frustrated with troup. I am really trying to help...

I can handle immensely more complaex issues for a fee.

I spoke with several reputable entertainment lawyers in establishing my rate. I charge 1/3rd of the rate of an attorney and have an attorney approve everything I do before I can file anything.

People on here have been saying "I got publishing rights to disperse" this is all hype. In order to disperse rights you have to either be an attorney or a CPA. An attorney does dispersion for me. I jsut mail out the checks.

There is alot to learn and I'm wondering why there isn't a whole catagory dedicated to business on here....

Knowing your shyt opens doors. If you can walk up to an untouchable A&R and have an intellecual conversation with him about the business you will have a better shot. Walking up to an A&R and saying "Ima bout to blow up!" will only make him worry that when you do in fact explode you may stain his new suit lol

that's my $.02

I'm getting on a Greyhound headed for DC in about 5 hours. I bet that place is getting crazy.

One more thing. President Obama (that sounds good) is the man responsible for setting the stautory royalty rates. There a reason Hollywood got behind him the way they did. He is supposed to give everyone a raise this year. for some artists the 1/2% increase will equal million for them.

Also all of the above stuff in not federal law. I was enacted by a lose set of rulings by the New York court system I think like 60 years ago...
Click to expand...

All of the above is in the book "All You Need to Know About the Music Business" by Donald Passman. It's considered the industry bible. You will have to read it 10 times before your head stops spinning and smoke stops shooting out of your ears before you really get it.

everything ^^^^^^^^^^ up there is about 2 pages of the book.

Buy it. Read it. Live by it.
 
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OddBirdEntertainment said:
Technically 50 doesn't even have to ask Dre. As long as he put's Dre's name on it. Dre would get 100% of the publishing and 50% of the songwriting.
Click to expand...
Is there a difference between songwriting and publishing royalties? Are you implying that Dre is 50 cents publisher?


To the original poster I'm pretty sure that Dre charges artists on aftermath significantly less for beats. But he still does charge. I would also like to point out that Dre solf in stake in Aftermath back in 2001.
 
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regarding the just blaze/saigon situation, there was a time when saigon got on myspace and said "just blaze ate up my budget" and just responded with this:

http://headmasterz.wordpress.com/2007/06/14/just-blaze-answers-saigons-darts/

Another thing I saw, which I have to admit personally bothered me was, “Just Blaze ate the budget”. Let me be clear here… There is not, and has never been, any budget whording on my end. Depending on what I’m working on, I charge anywhere between 50 to 80 thousand a beat. I’m not even charging half of my full rate here, I think it is in the area of 30? And that is for 6 songs produced by me. That’s all I’m contracted for. However, let me run down the song list.. (Here’s your partial tracklisting kids: Clap, Dont You Baby, A Better Way, Friends, The Truth, The Invitation, Preacher, However Do You Want it (aka Chilly Boom). Thats 8 songs, and I think I’m forgetting something, thats also not counting my additional production on other producer’s songs, and some skits that are songs in themselves. Let’s not forget Letter P, Don’t Do That, and another new promo record that will be straight to internet video soon. That’s 11… and I still may be forgetting something.. So how do I get paid for these additional records? Simple, so far, I haven’t, and probably won’t. Is what it is, I’m not complaining, it’s part of all of us working for a common cause. Then there are the side artists, such as Faith Evans, Bun B, Swizz Beats, Jay-Z and others.. these folks came thru for me and for the most part I made these situations happen for none or next to no money, But in some cases i had to come out of MY pocket in one form or another to make these things happen… not “the budget”

Oh wait, but I own Baseline Studios, where most of the album was recorded. I gotta be caking off that end then right? Wrong, people. We did a flat fee of something like 50 thousand for the studio for however long it took for the album to be recorded. Now you figure most commercial studios charge 2 grand a day. Let’s say I charged a dsicounted rate of $1,000. That would add up to be about.. 50 sessions? We’ve been recording what 2 years minimum? We’ve done way more than 25 sessions per year. How is the studio being paid now? Simple: It’s not. I’m paying out of my pocket for sessions now. Utilities, power, staff, engineer, etc. when it comes to Saigon sessions. When you have an artist who is a bit of a perfectionist and wants every single line, nuance, ad-lib, chorus, etc to be 100% on point, it’s obviously going to take time. I’m not mad at that by any means, i actually appreciate that dedication, but that’s the finiancial reality of it. Some of that is partially my fault for not always being at sessions and just saying “HEY! that ad lib is ok.. you dont need to do it agian..” and I can admit that with no problem. I think I definitely underestimated the needs of a new or unexperienced artist in this situation at times. I went into this situation thinking I was going to have a lot more than I had though. Especially help, such as A&R’s etc. Like Sai said, Hip Hop did leave, and Sickamore does come through the studio here and there to help out, but for the most part, as far as the studio is concerned, it’s just been me, with Neysa (my manager) helping run that end. So yeah.. Eating budgets? Sorry, Not me. Lastly, a lot of that sutff you guys heard on those past few mixtapes? Also recorded and put together at Baseline, mind you there is no “mixtape budget” at Atlantic. Guess what that equals… $Free.99! Sidenote: the album was not done 6 months after the deal was signed.. not even close.. If it was I’d probably have killed someone by now.. Maybe that was frustration talking, I guess.​
 
WillOldham said:
Is there a difference between songwriting and publishing royalties? Are you implying that Dre is 50 cents publisher?


To the original poster I'm pretty sure that Dre charges artists on aftermath significantly less for beats. But he still does charge. I would also like to point out that Dre solf in stake in Aftermath back in 2001.
Click to expand...

the answer to this question was in one of the thread troup hijacked but ill put it up here again.

picture a circle with a line down the middle... this is a bit confusing but each side of the circle is equal to 100% One side is publishing the other side is songwriters. If you sign a deal, as an artist, it is most likely going to be a "three quarter deal" you would get 100% of the writers royalty and 50% of the publishing royalties. The record company retains 50% ownership in the pub rights.

you are the producer however so, just to make the figures easy you would get 50% of the 50% publishing right and 50% of the 100% of the songwriters right. THis stuff gets extremely complex though.

most producers work on points. Dre knows his shyt is good so he takes a larger back end and a smaller up front. but there might be a possiblity that Dre. is only getting an advance of future earnings. without seeing the deal I can't say.

1 point = 1% percent of the gross reatil purchase price.

Most producers on major labels get 10 points or more.

but then apply these percentages to the figures above. now you are only getting 5% of the 100% songwriters right and 5% of the song writers right.

but then you have to figure that the artist is, on average only getting 6 points back end. so if a cd is selling for $10.00 then the artist gets $.60 and the producer gets $1.00 the remaining $8.40 goes to the record company

but as an artist, out of your $.60 you have to pay back advances, legal fees, recoupments, other song writers. so you only may end up making a $.01 per disk.

90% of artists are well over $500,000 in debt personally after their first major label release. So, anyone who is dreaming of getting rich, think again. Anyone who is claiming they are rich is grossly over exagerating their earnings. Even Lil Wayne is relatively struggling

Those cars and gold chains you see are recoupable gift from the record company most likely.

The above is why musicians tour. probably 75% of your income will come from merchendise and the draw at the gate. This is why a t shirt costs $39.00

basically, beware of outragious claims "I got fat stacks dog, I'm about to blow up dog, I got publishing money making me rich dog"

When someone who is actually educated hears someone saying stuff like that it borderlines on comedy.


and to answer the second question... Dre just owns the pub rights to his beat. 50 has his own publishing company. so when ASCAP disburses the pub check goes to dre alone.

im not going back for grammar and spelling...so pardon my mistakes

if you feel anything in this post is inacurate please PM me. I will edit it.
 
i think most of the time, with these situations the artists are both being paid indirectly. This is why business' such as these have personal attorneys and accountants. I think Dre gives 50 beats for free basically, because Dre is in charge of 50 as an artist, therefore hes making money off of him, he probably takes a little bit extra money because of the beats, and thats how it works out. same with saigon and JBlaze
 
grime said:
i think most of the time, with these situations the artists are both being paid indirectly. This is why business' such as these have personal attorneys and accountants. I think Dre gives 50 beats for free basically, because Dre is in charge of 50 as an artist, therefore hes making money off of him, he probably takes a little bit extra money because of the beats, and thats how it works out. same with saigon and JBlaze
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't see Dre needing the upfront money. It might actually be in 50's contract that he has to use X amount of Dre's beats...

That is just an assumption though
 
OddBirdEntertainment said:
the answer to this question was in one of the thread troup hijacked but ill put it up here again.

picture a circle with a line down the middle... this is a bit confusing but each side of the circle is equal to 100% One side is publishing the other side is songwriters. If you sign a deal, as an artist, it is most likely going to be a "three quarter deal" you would get 100% of the writers royalty and 50% of the publishing royalties. The record company retains 50% ownership in the pub rights.

you are the producer however so, just to make the figures easy you would get 50% of the 50% publishing right and 50% of the 100% of the songwriters right. THis stuff gets extremely complex though.

most producers work on points. Dre knows his shyt is good so he takes a larger back end and a smaller up front. but there might be a possiblity that Dre. is only getting an advance of future earnings. without seeing the deal I can't say.

1 point = 1% percent of the gross reatil purchase price.

Most producers on major labels get 10 points or more.

but then apply these percentages to the figures above. now you are only getting 5% of the 100% songwriters right and 5% of the song writers right.

but then you have to figure that the artist is, on average only getting 6 points back end. so if a cd is selling for $10.00 then the artist gets $.60 and the producer gets $1.00 the remaining $8.40 goes to the record company

but as an artist, out of your $.60 you have to pay back advances, legal fees, recoupments, other song writers. so you only may end up making a $.01 per disk.

90% of artists are well over $500,000 in debt personally after their first major label release. So, anyone who is dreaming of getting rich, think again. Anyone who is claiming they are rich is grossly over exagerating their earnings. Even Lil Wayne is relatively struggling

Those cars and gold chains you see are recoupable gift from the record company most likely.

The above is why musicians tour. probably 75% of your income will come from merchendise and the draw at the gate. This is why a t shirt costs $39.00

basically, beware of outragious claims "I got fat stacks dog, I'm about to blow up dog, I got publishing money making me rich dog"

When someone who is actually educated hears someone saying stuff like that it borderlines on comedy.


and to answer the second question... Dre just owns the pub rights to his beat. 50 has his own publishing company. so when ASCAP disburses the pub check goes to dre alone.

im not going back for grammar and spelling...so pardon my mistakes

if you feel anything in this post is inacurate please PM me. I will edit it.
Click to expand...

Okay I'm confused. I always assumed that producers got half (or less) of the songwriting credit. This mean't they got mechanical royalties that amounted to 10 cents per record sold and then if it was single they got money from downloads, radio play, licensing, performance royalties etc? Am I wrong about this or do they just get points on the album like an artist?
 
There's good info here.

I always noticed that when producers get label deals, they have their artist(s) rapping or singing only on their production (for the most part).
From a financial standpoint, it sort of makes sense to do that for the producer.

Neptunes always produced for the Clipse and Kelis (while they were under Star Trak)

Timbaland was always the main (and sometimes only) producer for Ginuwine, Missy, and Bubba Sparx for some albums (or while they were under him)

Swizz was the main producer for Cassidy's albums.

But what if the artist wants a beat from another producer?
I guess the producer who signed that artist can put in the contract that the artist must purchase only from them for the 1st two (or however many) albums?
 
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