do you put anything on your master track?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mylesp510
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When mixing, my master channel is bare. This is not to say that I never put anything on the master, but if I do, it's usually at the end when just about everything is done. Any further tweaking is usually very minor.

I don't always process my master, but when I do, I use dos compressors. (okay, no I don't. That's a joke. In case people took that seriously)
 
Are we talking songs or beats? I put a small ammount of limiting on my beats(to work more as a compressor), but a finished song is getting a CHAIN!!!!
 
Most of the issues have been covered here, but if you're just an amateur beat maker, and don't sell your beats (or no one buys them), try everything. It's good to learn how compresors work; on single instruments, on sub-mix groups, and the master fader. But yeah, if you sell a lot of beats, even processing on sub mix groups could come back to bite you in the ass, because adding vocals (one of the most important parts of the song) may change how you process many other instruments. If that's the case, now you have to back out of all your settings because if you adjust parameters on plugins that were used BEFORE mix groups and master processing, that may affect how the plugins AFTER it operate, therefore changing your entire mix.

On the other side of the coin, processing sub-mixes and the master bus is fun to learn! Don't let anyone tell you that professionals don't limit/compress or EQ their master bus, because many do. If you've ever seen one episode of Pensado's Place then you will see that is quickly debunked. However, one thing I have noticed is that if they do use compression on the master fader, it typically is barely operating.. compression/limiting on the master bus, in my experience, it to help glue everything together just a tad. Or if it's a mastering situation it could be to bring the overall volume up.

Be careful EQ'ing your master bus though. I just learned that altering a specific frequency across the board can introduce phase issues. I saw an episode of Pensado's Place where one of the pros used a linear phase EQ so nothing would go out of phase. And even then he only raised the band .5db.

I'm just now learning how to properly route and sum my tracks, and it's a whole new world. It's really cool to see how a mix can change when you process groups of instruments different ways then put them together as a final mix. I'm breaking my own rules though because I have this habit of routing certain tracks as hot as i can get them without clipping throughout the mix... but see if I ever need to take it somewhere to get professionally mixed or mastered I'm screwed because adding vocals will surely require more headroom, and ill have to reverse engineer many of my settings/levels. Hope that is somewhat helpful!
 
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Zacobe said:
On the other side of the coin, processing sub-mixes and the master bus is fun to learn! Don't let anyone tell you that professionals don't limit/compress or EQ their master bus, because many do. If you've ever seen one episode of Pensado's Place then you will see that is quickly debunked. However, one thing I have noticed is that if they do use compression on the master fader, it typically is barely operating.. compression/limiting on the master bus, in my experience, it to help glue everything together just a tad. Or if it's a mastering situation it could be to bring the overall volume up.
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Well not quite debunked. Pensado also says he masters with the original files rather than bouncing it to a separate file for mastering. So it's a one shot deal.

But if you are a beat maker or producer and you are NOT working on a final fully mastered product, the best practice is to rout everything to a final FX track in your chain that is only there for limiting & compression & EQ and whatever "mastering" plugins you want.

This way there is still some dynamic range for the mastering engineer to do his work.

If you put your limiter, compressor, on the master bus, you will kill the dynamic range & headroom and the mastering engineer can do very little with that track.

In Pensado's case, since he is mastering, he doesn't need headroom or dynamic range as he is working on the final product.
 
I use Izotope Ozone 6 to Master my tracks. There's a really good tutorial somewhere on youtube ... it'll make your tracks sound 30 times better trust me :D
 
BeatsKing said:
Well not quite debunked. Pensado also says he masters with the original files rather than bouncing it to a separate file for mastering. So it's a one shot deal.

But if you are a beat maker or producer and you are NOT working on a final fully mastered product, the best practice is to rout everything to a final FX track in your chain that is only there for limiting & compression & EQ and whatever "mastering" plugins you want.

This way there is still some dynamic range for the mastering engineer to do his work.

If you put your limiter, compressor, on the master bus, you will kill the dynamic range & headroom and the mastering engineer can do very little with that track.

In Pensado's case, since he is mastering, he doesn't need headroom or dynamic range as he is working on the final product.
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+1 I totally agree with your remark.

---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------
Steven Aram said:
I use Izotope Ozone 6 to Master my tracks. There's a really good tutorial somewhere on youtube ... it'll make your tracks sound 30 times better trust me :D
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I've just tested Ozone 5. Maybe you're coming from the future?
 
Jlacck said:
Most well respected mixing engineers actually don't put anything on the main track...
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Actually, I don't know ANYONE of the big boys, who's NOT having a master bus chain, if it's even only a L2 or eq/comp for glue, so You've been misinformed.
 
JeanLukPigheart

Quote Originally Posted by Jlacck View Post
Most well respected mixing engineers actually don't put anything on the main track...
Actually, I don't know ANYONE of the big boys, who's NOT having a master bus chain, if it's even only a L2 or eq/comp for glue, so You've been misinformed.
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Trust me, if they are mixing in the box anything that's on the master bus is likely coming from the analog domain and its there mostly to add "color" or glue to the overall mix. Very rarely is any engineer worth his salt going to slam the overall mix buss with processing UNLESS he is working on the final product or a demo version to give to clients.

I can tell you right now that not many well respected engineers go full board with processing on the main bus. Yes some engineers do indeed process the overall mix very gently but again but more often than not, it is more for sonic purposes than it is for processing purposes. So no I'm not misinformed, I'm going off what I've seen and what I know.
 
What if you finish your mix and you compare it to other tracks and then realize it's too bassy or not enough compression or something? Why can't you just change things if you need to by processing the master track. (As opposed to changing things on the individual tracks.)

And, in the same circumstances, what if you think it's perfect without any processing on the master track? Why must you add processing to the master track that you don't think it needs?

Mixers have different styles too - it's not always a matter of right and wrong.
 
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What if you finish your mix and you compare it to other tracks and then realize it's too bassy or not enough compression or something? Why can't you just change things if you need to by processing the master track. (As opposed to changing things on the individual tracks.)
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I'm not sure if you are asking a question or making a statement. In any case, it is usually better to fix whatever is wrong with your mix on the individual tracks rather than trying to correct it on the master track. For one, you have better control of fine tuning what is causing issues. For instance, if your track has too much bass, then you probably have an issue with the kick or bass if not both. But if I'm processing the master track as a whole, and I just want to turn down the kick, it's a little bit harder to do it without effecting the bassline.
 
Emmapeel9 said:
And, in the same circumstances, what if you think it's perfect without any processing on the master track? Why must you add processing to the master track that you don't think it needs?
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Then it's time to send it off to the mastering engineer!
 
Yes, I was just making a point in my last post that it seems to me to be more of a choice thing as to whether you put anything on the master bus :) Wasn't asking a question...
 
Jlacck said:
Trust me, if they are mixing in the box anything that's on the master bus is likely coming from the analog domain and its there mostly to add "color" or glue to the overall mix. Very rarely is any engineer worth his salt going to slam the overall mix buss with processing UNLESS he is working on the final product or a demo version to give to clients.
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I don't have to "trust you", because, again, You are spreading information, that is simply not true. Two people I know of, who rarely put anything on the master bus; everyone else does. So if You want to school Grammy winning mixing engineers on what they do or do not, because You happen to know it better, that's ok. That doesn't change the fact, that said information is false. Nobody "slams" the master, because they do not put Ozone on it and flatten the shit out of the signal "to get it loud".

Jlacck said:
Yes some engineers do indeed process the overall mix very gently but again but more often than not, it is more for sonic purposes than it is for processing purposes. So no I'm not misinformed, I'm going off what I've seen and what I know.
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Dude, You can repeat it in loop mode, over and over again and You are still misinformed and try to "appeal to authority", by Your "trust me" & "by what I've seen and know"-talk. And yeah, out of the DOZENS of Grammy winning mixing engineers that I know, of which most work either in hybrid mode or completely ITB, only two do not have a master chain; everyone else does. And that sentence in bold and the distinction You are trying to make, doesn't even make sense; PROCESSING is being done for SONIC purposes, because You deal with SOUND. It's like saying "I don't cook to make food for me, but only so that I have something to eat".

And yes, they do not put Ozone or an L2 on the master and slam the shit out of the signal; but that's understandable. We are talking about the creme de la creme and not beginners, who know better and ask me to "trust them", because they've "seen it all"; it's not like most of the info BY SAID ENGINEERS wasn't OUT THERE, available TO YOU AS WELL. So don't speak from "authority", go out and read it or call the people up and ASK THEM.
Then You can say "You know". Or ask me, because I actually DO KNOW, but You don't have to "trust me"; go out and research it Yourself.

(still Your pal, just don't give me that "trust me" & "I've seen it all" BS, because that might impress someone in here, but will still be MISINFORMATION nobody will profit from)
 
Mixing, like producing, recording, mastering has no set rule. Everyone does it different and every mix ends with different results.

I personally feel like in 2012, alot of tools are left at our disposal via the computers and DAWs we use while making tracks so more obligations fall into other realms than they did years ago.

Example: Producers now use EQs, Channel Strips, Compression, ect. while making "beats" when in the past you took your keyboard or MPC into the studio and plugged it into a board and let an engineer do all that.

When obligations begin to bleed together, you get people who expect more from you.

I'm not saying it's right, but in 2012 average client is expecting a mix to be "radio ready" with the same dynamics and sound range as a commercially released song no different than in 2012 people don't expect a "beat" to be below -6db with no dynamic processing whatsoever. They expect it to be loud and already be well mixed.
 
JeanLukPigheart: I think you are completely taking my post out of context in your attempts to "school" somebody on what you know or think you know. If the "12" grammy award engineers that you happen to know process mixes on the master bus, thats great for you and thats great for them. We probably could have worked with the same people (hypothetically speaking) and that doesn't mean what one does for you, he'll do for me as well.

Yet, that still doesn't change what I know or have seen from major engineers that I've worked with, or what I've done on records that have been on the radio! Now, I'm not interested in a pissing contest with somebody on the internet but if you feel you need to take that route because you want to prove how "misinformed" somebody is, then by all means do what you feel is best for you.

All that said, you still missed my point completely in regards to processing the final mix bus. The point that I was making and I still stand by it 100% is
Very rarely is any engineer worth his salt going to slam the overall mix buss with processing
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. In fact unless I'm mistaken here, you actually seem to agree with that.

Again, since we are talking about "misinformation" here, for those that are newbies (which many of the people on this board are); If you are NOT working on the final product yourself, (meaning doing the mastering yourself), then you probably don't want to put anything on the master bus (unless of course you know what you are doing). Yes there ARE exceptions to the rule which I clearly explained in my previous post. But I'm sure even you agree that if you are sending your work to a mastering house, then you probably want to be gentle on the master bus if you're processing it at all.

Now I don't know what style music you do nor do I know where you are from, but yes there are some genres that are known for processing the mix buss very heavily. However, for hip hop and R&B here in the states, in my 20 years doing work, the engineers I've worked with don't process the mix buss at all.

So who's right or wrong? Probably neither of us because everybody and every mix style does things differently. However, in sticking with the topic of the thread, I think we can all agree on a few general rules related to processing your master buss.
 
Well ya if your gonna send it to get mastered, there's no point in putting anything inthe master channel. Leave it to the expert and give him more to work with.

But since I do my own mixing and mastering I will always have something in the master channel. Usually an Eq, a cutoff Eq and a limiter, some times very little compression.

So ya I just don't think its really that possible to have a polished, complete sounding mix without some sort of processing in the master channel unless your a mixing beast and expert which I am not.
 
I don't touch the master channel. I render to WAV the best mix I can possibly make and then analyze what needs to be done. Every mix or song will need a different approach to mastering so formulas aren't always appropriate for every track. The most important thing is not to put limiting on the track as a whole before you have eqed it and put dynamics and all that "fun" stuff it may need. limiting then normalizing will trick the ear into thinking the song is actually louder. You all knew that though right? damn ear tricks. I hate mastering because as I get older I lose patience. I haven't mastered since releasing house music with my alias "zeebo/zeebz" grew out of it and stopped lol. mastering was never fun lol.
 
Yea, don't know too many who limit then normalize lol

As far as putting anything on a master track, very RARELY does a studio engineer do ANYTHING to the master track. Your job as a studio engineer (If the record is going to go to a master engineer) is mix to 2 to 3 db of headroom, and send it off.

The sound you hear on the radio, can't be achieved by a regular engineer using Ozone. The knowledge that Mastering Engineers have and their experience with equalization and compression and the equipment that they have is far superior to anything a studio engineer will have or know.

Obviously anyone and their brother could throw Ozone on the master mix and smash the signal into the brick, but the quality is going to be crap.
 
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