Debating purchase of MV-8000 over AKAI mpc 4000??

[Trusty]

Mo' BS!!!
Sure, the MV's got a few features ya don't get on da 4K, but da 4K's got many features ya can't get with the MV. If those few MV features R mo'important 4 ya than sequencin' and samplin' performance, then get the MV. But sayin' it's mo capable than da 4K or sayin' da 4K is limited is nothin' but a Roland brain wash!
I had both machines side by side in mine studio, and I returned the MV to the store, and I wasn't the only one!

Almost, but this too is BS. Sequence and Sample performance? The Z engine can not compete. Talk about brainwash...And there is no MPC brainwash? If you hadn't of said swing in the other post...I may have left this unreplied. The 4K is limited compared to the MV in almost every way. What, other than 2 extra midi outs, almost usless RAM eating 96k sampling that sounds no better than 44.1 to most people, and XLR inputs does the MPC 4k have that the MV-8000 doesn't have or can't do better. And I'll be the first to say that MPC sequencing isn't the end all be all the sequencers...unless you produce hip-hop and are very narrow-minded and, even brain-washed, because some producer you like used one. MPC is sequencing for dummies. Period. That is why many people like them and that is okay. Nothing wrong with that. The sequencer and the Z engine are about as deep as a kiddie pool. Buuut, again, some people like it that way and there is nothing wrong with that. But people that can't work with both machines side by side, shouldn't sound off that one isn't technically better (MV) than the other (MPC) when it clearly is. MPC's are fine...people make hot music with them...but let's not argue technicalities when the MV is clearly superior.

 

[Runn]

I like phat hip hop beats. Can i make phat hip hop beats on the 4k's ?

Question: Can i produce better trackz with the mv800 than the mpc4k's?

I want to make phat hip hop beatz.

 

[Trusty]

I like phat hip hop beats. Can i make phat hip hop beats on the 4k's ?

Question: Can i produce better trackz with the mv800 than the mpc4k's?

No, you can't make them any better or worse on either machine. That was your question, but that isn't what is being talked about now and I am sorry for that. This is what gear junkies do in their free time. Argue about what is better. It is a never ending thing, but it does have a positive effect. It allows people deciding to buy one or the other to know what the users of each have to say about why they like it and what it can do. Go here

http://www.mvnation.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=68

for a better analysis.

 

[Runn]

ok. thankz.

i want to make krazee acid lines.

This site is cooler than jay-z. he makes phat hip hop beatz.

 

[descry]

um...jay-z doesn't make beats.

start out on something easier than the 4k and the 8000 and you'll save yourself grief and time.

 

[Dr Beat]

The Z engine can not compete.
---
What, other than 2 extra midi outs, almost usless RAM eating 96k sampling that sounds no better than 44.1 to most people, and XLR inputs does the MPC 4k have that the MV-8000 doesn't have or can't do better.

Okay man, ya wanna kno? I'm talkin' 'bout facts, no hype:

4K: 24bit and 16bit with 8bit and 12bit resampling
MV: 16bit only
(and don't tell me ya can't hear the difference between 8bit, 16bit and 24bit!)

4K: sample rate from 4kHz to 96kHz
MV: 44.1kHz only

4K: up to 128 Parts per Multi
MV: only 16 Patches per Song

4K: up to 3 filters per voice, 3 envelopes, 2 LFOs, programmable modulation matrix
MV: only 1 filter per voice, 2 envelopes, 1 LFO

4K: up to 4 samples per note, velocity switched or real-time crossfade via controller
MV: up to 4 samples per note, velocity switched

4K: XLR and 1/4 inch stereo analog inputs/outputs + phono input
MV: 1/4 inch stereo analog inputs/outputs + phono input

4K: SPDIF stereo digital input/ouput and wordclock input standard
MV: SPDIF output standard, SPDIF input optional, no wordclock

4K: 8 analog outputs option (total 10 outputs) and ADAT lightpipe I/O option
MV: 6 analog outputs option (total 8 outputs) and RBUS (Roland proprietary, add $400 to convert to ADAT) digital I/O option

4K: reads 16/24bit WAV files and samples AND programs from AKAI MPC2KXL, MPC3K, S1K, S3K, S6K, Roland S700, EMU 3 and EMU 4 libraries
MV: reads 16bit WAV files (samples only, not programs) and Roland S700 sample/program libraries only

Pads:
4K: 16 levels Velocity or Tuning (16 pitch variations of the same sample)
MV: 16 levels Velocity only

The MV samplin' engine's a rehash of their old S700 engine, it's already outdated.
Now, ya say again "The Z engine can not compete"? LOL

And I'll be the first to say that MPC sequencing isn't the end all be all the sequencers...unless you produce hip-hop and are very narrow-minded and, even brain-washed, because some producer you like used one. MPC is sequencing for dummies. Period. That is why many people like them and that is okay.

Nice one, man. We're all dummies and ya're da cleva one. LMAO!
Ya're mixed up between easy-to-use and limited. Again, da 4K's sequencer rules over the MV:

4K: Pattern-based and Linear sequencing. And Simul Play mode can play Pattern-based Song and Linear Sequence simultaneously
MV: Linear sequencing only

4K: 2 Midi In, 4 Midi Out (64 external channels), 128 internal Parts per Sequence
MV: 1 Midi In, 2 Midi Out (32 external channels), 16 internal Patches per Song

4K: resolution up to 960ppq and MPC feel (swing, shift timing)
MV: resolution 480ppq and computer-like quantize

4K: capacity 300,000 notes
MV: capacity 150,000 notes

4K: read/write SMF (MidiFile) Type 0 and 1
MV: import SMF Type 0 only

4K: List, Piano Roll and Drum Grid editing
MV: List and Piano Roll editing

Features for live use:
4K: Track Mute: use pads for real-time track mutes, and Next Sequence: use pads for real-time pattern changes, arrange on-the-fly
MV: nada!

Other connectors:

4K: SCSI and USB for external drives and QWERTY keyboard
MV: no external drives or keyboard supported

4K: SMPTE time code in/out
MV: SMPTE not supported

4K: USB for connection to computer with free AKSYS software for PC/Mac for graphic editing, library management, and file transfer between PC/Mac and MPC RAM or hard drive
MV: USB for connection to computer for file transfer between PC/Mac and MV hard drive

4K: 2 footswitches
MV: 1 footswitch

D'ya wanna talk 'bout Qlink too?

But people that can't work with both machines side by side, shouldn't sound off that one isn't technically better (MV) than the other (MPC) when it clearly is. MPC's are fine...people make hot music with them...but let's not argue technicalities when the MV is clearly superior.

Man, I've had both side by side, I kno how to use both, and to me, the MV is clearly inferior: in specs, in sound and in feel. That's why I dumped it.
Now did I say the MV's a P.O.S.? No! ya can produce some tracks on the MV fo' sure. But truth is, it's far behind da 4K, no matter how much Roland marketing ya'll do.

 

[justblaze]

im feelin the MV it got a actual cd burner mixing and mastering capabilities..the 4k has alot of bugs

 

[Dr Beat]

I like phat hip hop beats. Can i make phat hip hop beats on the 4k's ?

Question: Can i produce better trackz with the mv800 than the mpc4k's?

I want to make phat hip hop beatz.

I agree with Trusty on that one!
It's not the machine that's gonna make yer beats hot or not. It's the ideas in yer head, ya dig?

Now, me thinks the pattern-based seq of da4K is betta fo' beats, as Trusty said:

MPC sequencing isn't the end all be all the sequencers...unless you produce hip-hop

 

[Dr Beat]

im feelin the MV it got a actual cd burner mixing and mastering capabilities..the 4k has alot of bugs

Da 4K had a lot of bugs, true, but not anymore. V1.51 is solid.
Ya can also mix on da 4K and everythin' can be automated. And ya can burn a 24bit WAV mix on CD-R. But no, ya can't burn an audio CD directly. That's one of the few things the MV can do and da 4K can't.
Sure, the MV's got "mastering capabilities", but again only 16bit. It's cool if ya ain't got nothin' else, but if ya got a computer or a recorder...

 

[justblaze]

i feel u

 

[Trusty]

Bet you thought you had me, huh? Well, lets go through this...

"4K: 24bit and 16bit with 8bit and 12bit resampling
MV: 16bit only
(and don't tell me ya can't hear the difference between 8bit, 16bit and 24bit!)"

I resample at a lower bit rate all the time on the MV...it is very easy...it just doesn't do it the way the MPC does. All the way down to 8 bit. And 24bit cuts your 64 voices down to 32 so this doesn't matter about 24/96. Everything burns to 44.1 anyway...


"4K: sample rate from 4kHz to 96kHz
MV: 44.1kHz only"

So, what do you sample at 4 bit? Is this a $600 function that makes the 4K cost that much more?

"4K: up to 128 Parts per Multi
MV: only 16 Patches per Song"

Again, 4 samples per partial, 96 partials per patch, 16 patches for a whopping 6,144 sounds in one song if need be. It is just arranged different than the MPC.

"4K: up to 3 filters per voice, 3 envelopes, 2 LFOs, programmable modulation matrix
MV: only 1 filter per voice, 2 envelopes, 1 LFO"

Again, you can achieve the same thing with the MV though the multi-effect. And that is 1 LFO per partial, one filter per partial...not per patch. The engine is different. So basically you can have a patch with 96 LFO's if need be. Plus the same 96 filters per patch.

"4K: up to 4 samples per note, velocity switched or real-time crossfade via controller
MV: up to 4 samples per note, velocity switched"

Okay, you got me here...but the MV is a compositional tool, not a live box.

"4K: XLR and 1/4 inch stereo analog inputs/outputs + phono input
MV: 1/4 inch stereo analog inputs/outputs + phono input"

What do you sample into the MPC that has XLR outputs? Let me guess, a mic or a mixer right? Do you have audio tracks for this???? No, just samples for a midi track. And with the $600.00 you save you can buy a nice mic pre amp that has 1/4 inch out into the MV...what is the big deal here?

"4K: SPDIF stereo digital input/ouput and wordclock input standard
MV: SPDIF output standard, SPDIF input optional, no wordclock"

Okay, no word clock, so. Again the maxed out MV plus OP-1, a nice mic and a nice preamp is still cheaper than a maxed out
4k. What's with the wordclock?

"4K: 8 analog outputs option (total 10 outputs) and ADAT lightpipe I/O option
MV: 6 analog outputs option (total 8 outputs) and RBUS (Roland proprietary, add $400 to convert to ADAT) digital I/O option"

Seeing how ADATS are so popular these days....screw the mic and a mic pre and get the $400.00 converter...still cheaper than a 4k. And does just as good.

"4K: reads 16/24bit WAV files and samples AND programs from AKAI MPC2KXL, MPC3K, S1K, S3K, S6K, Roland S700, EMU 3 and EMU 4 libraries
MV: reads 16bit WAV files (samples only, not programs) and Roland S700 sample/program libraries only"

Okay, were only on V 1.02...no crashes and other formats in the works...how many updates is the 4k on just to get it to work properly??? How many bugs are/were in it?


"Pads:
4K: 16 levels Velocity or Tuning (16 pitch variations of the same sample)
MV: 16 levels Velocity only"

Oh, how I wish we spent the extra $600.00 for that feature...

"The MV samplin' engine's a rehash of their old S700 engine, it's already outdated.
Now, ya say again "The Z engine can not compete"? LOL"

Wrong again my friend. You owned one...it is a hybrid of the S-7XX, XV synth engine, and a new native engine ala the VS series recorders. Shoulda dug deeper when you had it.


"Nice one, man. We're all dummies and ya're da cleva one. LMAO!
Ya're mixed up between easy-to-use and limited. Again, da 4K's sequencer rules over the MV:

4K: Pattern-based and Linear sequencing. And Simul Play mode can play Pattern-based Song and Linear Sequence simultaneously
MV: Linear sequencing only"

And how does this make it 'better'?

"4K: 2 Midi In, 4 Midi Out (64 external channels), 128 internal Parts per Sequence
MV: 1 Midi In, 2 Midi Out (32 external channels), 16 internal Patches per Song"

You are misleading as you are refering Akai 'parts' with the MV's patches (of which you can have 128 in the library and the MV will do bank changes mid-sequence), when you should refer them to the MV's partials...of which you can have how many? 1,536. Thank you. And, with the money you save buying a MV, you can spend like $50.00 on a midi thru box.

"4K: resolution up to 960ppq and MPC feel (swing, shift timing)
MV: resolution 480ppq and computer-like quantize "

This is fun and I can't wait for your next post, anyway, no offence but I want to puke anytime someone says "MPC' and 'Swing'

960 and 480 is really a big difference when you want your 32nd notes quantized to the tightest of all possible resolutions example 1-01-001651768876768767867364867836783

Hardly necessary.

"4K: capacity 300,000 notes
MV: capacity 150,000 notes"

Only because the MPC is meant to write epic overatures. Have you even gone over 60,000 notes yet for any one thing? I sure haven't. This still doesn't justify the cost of the 4k.

"4K: read/write SMF (MidiFile) Type 0 and 1
MV: import SMF Type 0 only"

Yeah, I pray everyday for this to change in a n update.

"4K: List, Piano Roll and Drum Grid editing
MV: List and Piano Roll editing"

One question? Can you step sequence any note greater than an 8th note. Nope? Any rests or ties? Nope Just moving your cursor to create a rest. Wow, that is so musical. Score many orchestrations with the MPC? Can't really do it. This is where the sequencers differ. The MV is better at compositional...MPC's have always leaned more percussive. But the MV has 32nd's and tripilet 32nd's and on up same as the MPC, but it doesn't stop at 8th notes.

"Features for live use:
4K: Track Mute: use pads for real-time track mutes, and Next Sequence: use pads for real-time pattern changes, arrange on-the-fly
MV: nada!"

True, but the MV has multitrack recording and the MPC does not. This is the real trade off. Live (MPC) or Studio (MV)

Other connectors:

"4K: SCSI and USB for external drives and QWERTY keyboard
MV: no external drives or keyboard supported"

USB to computer though. This replaces SCSI. I haven't used a SCSI drive since I HAD to with an MPC 2000XL.

"4K: SMPTE time code in/out
MV: SMPTE not supported"

Can't have it all, except better filters, much better effects, audio burning, VS mastering suite, and mouse and VGA in the new update.

"4K: USB for connection to computer with free AKSYS software for PC/Mac for graphic editing, library management, and file transfer between PC/Mac and MPC RAM or hard drive
MV: USB for connection to computer for file transfer between PC/Mac and MV hard drive"

Was this worth mentioning?

"4K: 2 footswitches
MV: 1 footswitch"

I of course do not use them so I can not speak to the advantages to this.

"D'ya wanna talk 'bout Qlink too?"

Do you have 8 assignable sliders to do things you use Q-Link for, or three assignable knobs? you got two sliders, and four knobs. 8+3=11 controllers for the MV. 2+4=6 for the MPC (and were not counting headphone, input, or master knobs either.

"Man, I've had both side by side, I kno how to use both, and to me, the MV is clearly inferior: in specs, in sound and in feel. That's why I dumped it.
Now did I say the MV's a P.O.S.? No! ya can produce some tracks on the MV fo' sure. But truth is, it's far behind da 4K, no matter how much Roland marketing ya'll do. "

Like that wasn't Akai marketing? I am glad to actually have a spirited debate about this for a change. This is in fun...no disrespect meant Dr. Beat. Just hope the newbie's learn from it.

 

[Trusty]

Oh yeah. I forgot to ask if the MPC 4K had beat sync, and could real-time time-stretch in the sequencer and have two or more different loops at different bpm's all play in sync. That is almost qorth the price alone. Now can the MPC sequencer do that with audio tracks? Noooooo........it doesn't have audio tracks.

 

[Dr Beat]

Bet you thought you had me, huh? Well, lets go through this...

Nah, I knew I could "trust" ya. Ok, here we go:

And 24bit cuts your 64 voices down to 32 so this doesn't matter about 24/96. Everything burns to 44.1 anyway...

Wrong! 24bit doesn't cut the voices, 96k does though, so it's 64 voices at 24bit/48k, 32 voices at 24/96.

Everything burns to 44.1 anyway...

Ya ever heard of DVD Audio?

So, what do you sample at 4 bit?

ya mean, 4kHz? sometime I use it as an effect, it cuts tha bandwitdth and adds artifacts.

Again, 4 samples per partial, 96 partials per patch, 16 patches for a whopping 6,144 sounds in one song if need be. It is just arranged different than the MPC.

Nah, ya don't understand, or don't kno da 4K, me thinks.
MV Samples = 4K Samples
MV Partial (4 samples)= 4K KeyGroup or Pad (4 samples)
MV Patch (96 partials)= 4K Program (128 keygroups)
4K Multi = combination of Programs, FX, controllers
On da 4K, one Multi can use up to 128 Programs, all active at the same time. On the MV, ya can only have 16 active Patches.

Again, you can achieve the same thing with the MV though the multi-effect. And that is 1 LFO per partial, one filter per partial...not per patch. The engine is different. So basically you can have a patch with 96 LFO's if need be. Plus the same 96 filters per patch.

Again, ya don't understand. The MV's only got one MFX for the whole unit, yeah, I kno, plus one reverb and one chorus (BTW, da 4K's got 4 simultaneous FX, in any combination). Anyway, FX filters ain't the same as the sampler filters.
And on da 4K, it's 3 filters, 3 envelopes and 2 LFOs per KeyGroup (same as Partial), not per Program.
Anyway, both units max out at 64 voices, so the MV's got 64 filters, 128 envelopes and 64 LFOs, and da 4K's got 192 filters, 192 envelopes and 128 LFOs. Learn yer maths.

"4K: up to 4 samples per note, velocity switched or real-time crossfade via controller"

Okay, you got me here...but the MV is a compositional tool, not a live box.

I kno the MV's not a live box, but real-time crossfade between multiple samples aint only fo' live, it's a cool sound creation tool for studio too, think 'wave table'.

What do you sample into the MPC that has XLR outputs? Let me guess, a mic or a mixer right? Do you have audio tracks for this???? No, just samples for a midi track.

Sure ya can sample vocals with da 4K (and at 24bit if ya wanna, like a real DAW), ya can trigger recordin' with a Midi note while the sequencer is playin' and the same Midi note'll trigger playback of the recorded sample in sync with the sequence.
I'm sure ya kno the 16bit "audio tracks" on the MV are samples in RAM too, they're not disk tracks, they only look like tracks on the UI. But hey, I'll admit that's easier on the MV.

What's with the wordclock?

If ya got other digital gear, ya need to sync all their clocks together so ya don't get digital pops. Sure, the MV's meant to be used alone...

Seeing how ADATS are so popular these days....screw the mic and a mic pre and get the $400.00 converter...still cheaper than a 4k. And does just as good.

Adat recorders may be gone, but Adat lightpipe's used my most manufacturers of digital recorders (except Roland), digital mixers, preamps with AD, FX, and computer interfaces.
And on the MV, to get Adat lightpipe, ya gotta buy the OP-1 (Roland Rbus expander) fo' 'bout $400, PLUS the DIF-AT (Rbus-Adat converter) fo' another $400, total $800. On da 4K, all ya need is the Adat card fo' $300.

Okay, were only on V 1.02...no crashes and other formats in the works.

When I copped the MV, it was V1.01 or 1.10 and I got a few crashes, but not too many. Before I bought it, I'd talked to the Roland rep (not the store's sales guy) and he'd told me it could already read MPC libraries, and it didn't, even with V1.20, so now, I'll believe when I see it.

how many updates is the 4k on just to get it to work properly??? How many bugs are/were in it?

Yeah, ya're right 'bout dat, da 4K had many bugs when it came out, but AKAI updated the OS and now V1.51's very stable, and it's got a lot of added features.

4K: 16 levels Velocity or Tuning (16 pitch variations of the same sample)
MV: 16 levels Velocity only"

Oh, how I wish we spent the extra $600.00 for that feature...

Too late, ya've already spent $800 fo' the Adat lightpipe.
Ya kno, 16 Tuning's a hot feature. In fact, Akai'd left it out when they released da 4K and now they added it 'coz so many peeps were askin' for it.

Wrong again my friend. You owned one...it is a hybrid of the S-7XX, XV synth engine, and a new native engine ala the VS series recorders. Shoulda dug deeper when you had it.

I did and that's cr*p. I had a S770 and it's the same sampler/synth structure (though the S770 sounded betta IMHO, but it had less memory). If ya believed the Roland rep who told ya it's the same as the VS, ya've been fooled!

4K: Pattern-based and Linear sequencing. And Simul Play mode can play Pattern-based Song and Linear Sequence simultaneously
MV: Linear sequencing only"

And how does this make it 'better'?

Errr... hellooo?
Da 4K (like all MPCs) can do pattern-based sequencing, that's the base of most beat creation, and the MV simply can't!

You are misleading as you are refering Akai 'parts' with the MV's patches (of which you can have 128 in the library and the MV will do bank changes mid-sequence), when you should refer them to the MV's partials...of which you can have how many? 1,536. Thank you.

Nah, wrong again!
Like the MV's Patch can use 96 Partials, da 4K's Programs can use 128 KeyGroups for multi-sampling. Say, if ya're using a multisampled piano, that's one patch/program with lots of partials/keygroups/samples.
The MV's limited to one Patch per Midi channel and it's got only 16 internal channels, da 4K can use 128 (one per track).
Of course, da 4K can have mo' programs in memory and change programs on any track mid-sequence too.

And, with the money you save buying a MV, you can spend like $50.00 on a midi thru box.

Nah, a Midi thru box won't give ya mo' channels, just the same channels on mo' connectors. On da 4K, the 4 Midi outs r completely independent.

This is fun and I can't wait for your next post, anyway, no offence but I want to puke anytime someone says "MPC' and 'Swing'

Well, puke all ya want, but the MPC 'feel' and 'swing' is somethin' a lot of software developers, includin' those at Roland, have been tryin' to copy for years and never got it right.

960 and 480 is really a big difference when you want your 32nd notes quantized to the tightest of all possible resolutions example 1-01-001651768876768767867364867836783

If ya don't wanna quantize, that's when ya need the maximum resolution to get the exact 'feel' of yer playin'. Da 4K's got twice the resolution of the MV.

"4K: read/write SMF (MidiFile) Type 0 and 1
MV: import SMF Type 0 only"

Yeah, I pray everyday for this to change in a n update.

I understand, man, SMF 1's so much betta to exchange multitrack sequences with other sequencers. Did Roland update the MV so ya can export sequences in a non-prorietary format or are ya it still stuck with it?

One question? Can you step sequence any note greater than an 8th note. Nope? Any rests or ties? Nope Just moving your cursor to create a rest. Wow, that is so musical. Score many orchestrations with the MPC? Can't really do it. This is where the sequencers differ. The MV is better at compositional...MPC's have always leaned more percussive. But the MV has 32nd's and tripilet 32nd's and on up same as the MPC, but it doesn't stop at 8th notes.

Yeah, I can enter notes of any length in Step sequence.
Rests, yep, ties, nope (well, ties r the same as longer notes, ain't they?)
Orchestrations with da 4K, yeah! 128 programs, 64 ext midi channels, remember?
And da 4k can do 64th and 64th triplets too.

True, but the MV has multitrack recording and the MPC does not. This is the real trade off. Live (MPC) or Studio (MV)

Well, multitrack recording, kind of. The MV's actually sampling "audio tracks" in RAM, and it's only 16bit; it ain't no disk recorder like a VS. But it's cool for demos.
Anyway, I couldn't care less, I got a REAL 24-track 24bit DAW, a Deeps (DPS24).

USB to computer though. This replaces SCSI. I haven't used a SCSI drive since I HAD to with an MPC 2000XL.

I don't like bein' locked inside a box, I can connect a ZIP drive via USB or SCSI, I can use USB Flash drives to carry my projects to other studios with 4Ks (and they're a lot of'em), all that without a 'puter.

"4K: SMPTE time code in/out
MV: SMPTE not supported"

Can't have it all

Amen!

"4K: USB for connection to computer with free AKSYS software for PC/Mac for graphic editing, library management, and file transfer between PC/Mac and MPC RAM or hard drive
MV: USB for connection to computer for file transfer between PC/Mac and MV hard drive"

Was this worth mentioning?

Hell yeah! if ya'd seen AKSYS in use, ya'd understand why.

Do you have 8 assignable sliders to do things you use Q-Link for, or three assignable knobs? you got two sliders, and four knobs. 8+3=11 controllers for the MV. 2+4=6 for the MPC

True, but then again, ya'd have to kno what Qlink can do and it's too long to explain here (mixer automation, fx parameter automation, external synth control, etc)

Like that wasn't Akai marketing?

Okay, I admit, I copied some things the Akai rep posted on another forum, but man, its' all facts, and I kno they're true 'coz I used both machines.

I am glad to actually have a spirited debate about this for a change. This is in fun...no disrespect meant Dr. Beat. Just hope the newbie's learn from it.

No problem, bro.
Ya kno, it's just gear and in the end, it all comes down to what works best for ya. The MV's good for some peeps and da MPC for others. I just wanted to get the facts straight, ya kno what I'm sayin'?

 

[Dr Beat]

Oh yeah. I forgot to ask if the MPC 4K had beat sync, and could real-time time-stretch in the sequencer and have two or more different loops at different bpm's all play in sync.

Man, ya neva quit, do ya?
No, da 4K don't have real-time beat sync /timestretch, it's got it as an edit (non real-time) function and it sounds good.
And yeah, I've tried it on the MV and it's useless 'coz it sounds like cr*p, the beat synced phrases wobble like they went thru a tremolo or somethin'.

Now can the MPC sequencer do that with audio tracks? Noooooo........it doesn't have audio tracks.

No, da 4K don't have no audio tracks, but it can sample phrases at 24bit (vocals, riffs, etc) in sync with the sequence.
And yeah, I've used the 8 "audio tracks" (16bit samples in RAM) on the MV, and I said it before, it's cool if ya ain't got nothin' else to record to, and yeah, I agree it's easier than the Midi triggered recordin'/playback on da 4K. See?

Like I said, in the end, it all depends what other gear ya got and what ya use if fo'.
I'll say, the MV's a cool box all-in-one to prepare demos in a home studio. with just a keyboard and a mike plus preamp.
For peeps who got a computer or a hardware DAW/portastudio, and want the pro quality (24bit), it's da 4K. And as ya admited yerself, da 4K rules for live performance (did ya see the Beyonce tour pics on the Akaipro US site?).


Ya kno, I had the same kinda chat when I copped my Deeps. I checked both the Roland VS2480 and the AKAI DPS24 and it waz the same story: two machines that look kinda the same but in fact they're very different if ya dig. And peeps keep arguein' which one's betta too!

 

[Trusty]

This is a good debate. Anyway, you replied...so you don't quit either. Even though the audio tracks are ram, it is what can be done with them is the big plus iver the MPC. The tremelo effect you said to experience on the MV during beat sync I ran across as well with certain sample phrases that were 'crowded', like vocals, as opposed to drum loops which are less jumbled and what not. However...this was easily, and I mean easily corrected. How? If you had a 4 bar loop and you did the resolution at 4 bars times 16 1/4 notes...yeah, theres coloring. But, and this math is correct , if you set it to 16 16th notes times 64 16th notes...it isn't there. It is all good. It inserts more 'stretching points' as I'll call them and allows it to breath in the syncing. So that isn't an issue (though I wish it just did it like you'd think it could). I don't mix or master in the MV, though after the update I may try. It DOES, and this isn't Roland rep talk, have VS processing engine in it, and in the effects section as well. I did own a VS (duped it for a better computer...I have a beast that can process so far 51 tracks...some stereo some mono with at least three effects on each track no sweat ), an SP, and an XV, and I recognize Roland and how Roland does things as all I mainly use is and has been Roland. Same way $1000 JV engines end up in Roland D2's. I admitted it was a hybrid, but it is there, VS/XV/SP/new MV, and has new MV exclusives to the OS. Same way the V-Synth has Variphrase, JP modeling, and what-not..except it has new stuff and is absolutly amazing. I never said a thru box gives more channels, it gives control to more gear than just the outputs. The MV is hardly stand alone. It takes a lot of the work of the recording in preproduction. A new way to work. I use it as a compositional tool. Not as a all in one. I liked it better than the 4k. But I know Roland. I do sugest the MV for people who want an all in one as it is capable...but it isn't just that. It is a monster sequencer sampler. It is all preference though. I like working with Roland. I ilke the functions. I like the ease of use. People will prefer it, like I did, to the MPC. And not just for a all-in-one. And it DOES have a VS engine. So while it isn't disk recording...it is the same internal PROCESSING quality. Minus 96k. And who knows, there maybe someone there on a MPC 60 and a planet phatt that makes beats that blows both of ours out...Oh wait, there is. DJ Premiere. Oh yeah, and I know how the MPC and MV samlpes to patches/programs work. I wasn't misleading about that. I think you were one menu wawy from seeing all the filters and what-not. And I said you could add the multi-effect filter on top of the others. Anyway, if the price/features on either unit makes you happy, get the one that works best. For my money it was the MV. I am glad I can use 16 instruments and have 128 in a library that CAN be used at any time during the Project. It may require laying down a part with 16, putting them back to the library and using 16 more for the song....repeat, repeat, repeat. But the 128 for the MPC is weird. I never need more than 16 drums/instrumental tracks in my beats...so I am good there. I think the MV is a very pro machine. I think the MPC is a pro machine. I think the anything is pro. I mean, because the MV-8000 and MPC 4000 are both on the market...the MPC 3000 and the 60 are not toys. That is silly. The MV-8000 is hardly a 'Demo' machine though. VS processing and even more of it in the 2.0 VGA upgrade (another/engine/processor in the expansion) what more do ya need if you wanted to do it that way? Anyway, take it easy. And though this will be my last post on the matter as I'm (as you are probably too) tired of the subject, I look forward to your reply. The defense rests.

P.S. 24 bit/96k processing dithered to 44.1 is for Britney Spears albums. 24 bit isn't the standard on every pro album. Same way DV isn't the standard for every film in theaters. Everything in 24 bit, like everything shot on DV...is too....sharp, if you know what I mean. Many people that I talk too, semi-famous gold selling rap artists and rock bands tell me, though the studios they record at have 24 bit 96k (or 192), they hardly use it. That is real. I doubt everything you do is 24 bit. My computer interface/software can do 24 bit/96k, but I like mine a little dirty and with tube drive sound anyway. So I don't use it much. Oh, I think the new SP-606 will pee all over the MPC 4k as a live box. Of coure, that is what those are built for. Can't wait so I don't have to take expensive gear to gigs.

 

[Shockwave77]

Dr.Beat? You should be Dr.Type cause you obviously spend more time writing about specs than making beats.