Could the age of your gear, make your music sound old and outdated

balma

balma

New member
please read carefully....

I heard this: "the music of the future, is made with instruments from the past"

Is the gear or is your head???

Does the year of model of your machines have a big influence on the modernity of your tracks?

Guys, I recently made a compilation for the Red Bull Music Academy. Got 4 years trying to enter the famous academy, everybody has the right to dream.

What I notice, was a HUGE difference between the old tracks, and three tunes that I made this month. But this difference is on the sound, on the "avant-garde":D of the type of music.

I used on old tracks, synths like these ones:

Roland grooveboxes. Mc 307,505,909
Roland Juno 106
Yamaha EX 5
Roland JP 8080
Emu command station

On these new tracks, I used ONLY

Access VIRUS T1
KORG ELECTRIBE ESX
ROLAND V SYNTH
EMU Command station

I've noticed that red bull music academy, has a tendence to electro to hip hop. They are very selective, picking 60 producers from 4000/5000 participants.

I used for the drums, like the hi hats, the kicks, snares and some synth sounds, the KORG ELECTRIBE.
The synth sounds and some effects come from the Virus.
Pads and sampled beats from the V synth
harmonics, percussions and arps from the EMU.

I'm gonna post these tracks. They sound similar like the new album from CHICANE.

I don't know why, but something in the gear, gave to my music a touch of modernism. Something make this tracks fresher.

There are some features from the new synths, that played an important role on the new sound I'm achieving. This is my biggest evolution, my quantum leap, and I still wondering how????!!!!!

Maybe:
the distortion filter knob on the Electribe ESX1. This synth KICKSS AASSSS!!!! The valve force addss a lot of saturation to the sound. It uses samples, but the synth section with its lots of oscillator features and this beatiful distortion added to the filter, changes the sound dramatically.
You know that frequencies like HPF takes out a lot of volume to the sound. Add distortion, and you'll have a very sharped high and clear synth sounds.

Features like these one and some odd osc combinations, creates new sounds, powered by the valve force.

What I tried to mean, is that, features from synths from the past, allowed things like FILTER MODULATION, for example, linking the filter to the LFO to obtain a oscillation on filter frequency or a filter long curve. But that's overused. I hear that so much on old trance tracks.

Which synth features are hot today????
Adding distortion to drums, using very high frequency sounds???
adding roll effect to short blips?
Wich kind of new applications for the gear are having a positive response on the crowds?

So, what I tried to mean, is that new features on NEW synths, allow to producers achieve NEW and FRESH sound, that results on INNOVATIVE MUSIC. Please demostrate that I'm wrong, because I love vintage synths.

.
 
DonaldCrunk said:
i am wanting noises in my ears! did you forget your tracks sir?

or am i stupidly missing them
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First we need your opinion:D
the tracks will be posted in a few hours, sorry, computers on my work don't allow external storage media devices, but I assure you, if you like electronica they deserve to be heard...:monkey:
besides, if somebody can't make good electronic music with:
Virus T1
V Synth
Electribe ESX 1
Command station with four ROMS

better go into polka!
 
Well with the ex, the command station, or roly mc's, if the sample set is dated, it will probably give a similar sound. As for the non-sample based, I've found that with certain synths, whether it's the interface or the limits in options, I tend to get certain specific sounds out of ones like JP8xxx and the Juno. The juno it tends to be either an 80'sish pad sound or a soft filtered bass, with the JP it's either supersawwy stuff or wierd feedback osc stuff. A lot of that is probably just me kind of used to tweaking certain things certain ways with certain synths. And if you're trying for electo kind of stuff, I know you mentioned the distortion on the ESX, you'd be amazed at the wonders a Boss ODB-3 can do when hooked up to an electro-harmonix big muff.
 
I think you need to draw a distinction between Features, Composition and techniques...and maybe even the original era of the gear.

If I use those same 'modern synths' and produce using the same cliche production techniques from the past then my music WILL sound dated.

I think innovation and creative composition are not limited to the modern feature set of any studio tool- that still comes from the user -who may find inspiration from a feature/quirk or ability of a particular studio tool.

For something to sound modern- it has to be following some sort of a trend. How do you find innovation following a trend?
 
Griffin Avid said:
I think you need to draw a distinction between Features, Composition and techniques...and maybe even the original era of the gear.

If I use those same 'modern synths' and produce using the same cliche production techniques from the past then my music WILL sound dated.

I think innovation and creative composition are not limited to the modern feature set of any studio tool- that still comes from the user -who may find inspiration from a feature/quirk or ability of a particular studio tool.

For something to sound modern- it has to be following some sort of a trend. How do you find innovation following a trend?
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Word! I guess it's the age old saying, having the most expensive latest gear doesn't make your music better - it's the composer/producer/mastermind who does; the things he gets OUT of that gear. The late Joe Zawinul used to have a Korg M1 in his rig until he died last year - and the M1, it could be argued, has a sound that could be easily classified as very dated by today's standards. It's a little different with actual "shapeable" synthesizers, than ROMplers though.

But that's where creativity comes to play when you can make a so called dated instrument or sound, sound fresh.

Certain genres have certain "expectations" I guess, but then someone like Timbaland (or one of his many minions...) gets an idea to combine 90's Euro Dance with hip hop-- :rolleyes:

Then again, an instrument like the Fender Rhodes electric piano was NOWHERE to be found a few years back, in the 90's ... and now it's absolutely EVERYWHERE. And let's not forget those ancient machines such as all the Moogs, Clavinets etc. :)
 
Griffin Avid said:
I think innovation and creative composition are not limited to the modern feature set of any studio tool- that still comes from the user -who may find inspiration from a feature/quirk or ability of a particular studio tool.
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:cheers: well said


But definitly, certain instruments make a revolution or give a significative contribution to the global music when released.
There are lots of synths with unique features. And, when a unique feature is used by a brilliant mind in the proper way, and it comes to the light leaving the underground, and hits the mainstream due to its particularity, the utilization of that feature becomes a "law" during certain amount of time.

For example, that distortion knob on the filter section of the Electribe ESX1, creates some sounds very similar to what you hear at the latest techno/electro releases...
Also, using it trying to emulate the new tendences, is just following, not innovating. But at least my music sounds fresh...

When the Roland JUNO 106 was released, certain BASS PRESET, (I forgot the number) appeared on lots of techno tracks. And it became a common sound on hundreds of trance tracks. JUNO changed the way to make certain kind of music. Just because somebody applied that preset in a very cool way.

I remember that after Madonna's "VOGUE" hit the charts, a lot of songs emulated the way that the snare was used in that song. And I was a kid and didn't know anything about music. But I noticed that rollin' snare tendence even without knowing anything about gear....


I love vintage synths, but I'm starting to think, that we have to adquire new gear from time to time...
 
the utilization of that feature becomes a "law" during certain amount of time. For example, that distortion knob on the filter section of the Electribe ESX1, creates ....

But is that the only piece of gear capable of creating that sound/tone? Would it be better to do something similar with what I already have (if I wanted to go with that sound) then to clone someone else's sound by duplicating BOTH their technique and kit list?

I certainly understand wanting an element from someone else's music. "What did so and so use for XXX?...I always loved that sound"

The first people to stutter audio were being innovative and it was a tedious process- probably borne from a happy accident or stumbled across while looking for a workaround. Now software has that feature (stylus RMX)...plugins that stutter audio abound and even modern hardware (via software Access Atomizer) have it as a feature. It was originally done with what was laying around. After the fact- it's a preset or standard function. See the SSL LMC-1 plug for another example.

I'm starting to think, that we have to adquire new gear from time to time...

I kind of agree, but I think it's more about new inspiration then really about modernizing your music. If you listen to current releases and the radio and well, lots of music as a whole- you'll have enough outside influences to affect your production. You change over time and so should your music to reflect that.

Besides that I think it takes time to gel with a bit of gear. Years maybe. At first it's about finding out what IT does/can do. Then how to do what YOU want it to do. Eventually it's about what the Two of you Can Do together.

For every piece of kit, hardware or software ,the reason I bought it ISN'T the reason I love it.
 
Q/ Which synth features are hot today????

Very depending on style of music.

Dance music like trance and techno but also most hip hop and nu r&b are sounding very different compared to 10 years ago; not just the melodies or structure of the tracks, but the overall sound. It's more "clean", more "refined", has more slight distortion, and is overcompressed.

Most other styles are asking for analog warmth and simplicity. From there the "analog revival" there.

Q/ Adding distortion to drums, using very high frequency sounds??? Adding roll effect to short blips?

Like I said hereabove; especially these items are hot in all kind of dance tracks (but almost only in dance tracks).

Q/ Which kind of new applications for the gear are having a positive response on the crowds?

I shouldn't know... But yeah I'm an analog synth addict...
Best blips are still coming from a 35 yrs old EMS Synthi !! ;)
 
i think it highly depends on the music u r making. Some instruments will just never go out of style.
 
its about thinking outside the box. new gear often opens the mind to new possibilities.

if it was only the gear than the piano and drums would no longer be used. they only have ONE preset ;)
 
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Now I agree that lots of old analog synths have a lot to contribute with the modern music. Is very ignorant to say -but a lot of newbies think that- that old synths result in "old music".

It's well known that there are old synths that are overused.
IMHO, some machines like the JUNO 106, the TR909 and Jp8080 (what a coincidence all of them ROLAND) have been used thousands of times on dance eletronic music. And more: all these synths have been sampled hundreds of times on lots of ROMS for romplers and workstations. You'll find the TR 909 cowbell on any modern synth.

Despite overused, their contribution will never come to an end. I can find a new application for the Roland JUNO 106, one after another.

For example, take the 1/4 audio outs of a JUNO, and plug them on the line in of a modern synth like the Vsynth or the electribe series, and ring the internal engine of the new synth with the old one, and start to experiment!
Find new applications!

I have years using old gear, I have analogic synths from the eighties, VAs from the nineties, workstations.
Recently, I got three new synths, the Virus T1, the Vsyntth and the Electribe EMX1. And something changed in a DRASTIC way.
The oldest of these synths is the Vsynth (2003).

The DRIVE DISTORTION knob on the EMX1 was just a small example thrying to draw a picture of what I think is a gear innovation, is a new feature, that I don't see in any other synth. It brings out very loud synth sounds with very high HPF frequency that normally almost dissapear under normal cirscumstances. Korg did it this time very well.
And that's one of the new elements that I heard on recently 2008 released tracks. Very high "HPF cutoff sounds with big presence and chorused.

About the compression, that's one of my headaches. I'm a fool using compression. with practice, compressed drums can blow your head. And THM is right, most of the drums are now very very compressed.

A good question, can I emulate in certain way all the features of the brand new synths with 80ies or 90ties synths?

The Virus T1 is an amazing synth. What a great sound it has. Depeche Mode adquired one. Now, Depeche Mode is one of those great bands, that use very old synths, and still innovating the electronic music until today. On their time, one of their favorite synths was the Roland JD 800. Now, they say, that the Virus T1 is the solution of all the riddles.

I love the new version of OFFSHORE from Chicane, cheesy vocals some people say. But, the chunky beats of this new version sounds incredible. The drums roll like 1/32 each 2/4 beats, it sounds so, so cool
Trying to ilustrate:
I have been comparing it, with the 1997 version. What's new???
Offshore 1997: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrMEotjvhBo

Offshore 2007: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06EbSDKintc

My main concern, was that my music sounded old, nothing new under the sun, and I'm very worried to push my limits and go further and give a contribution to the music in a short term.
 
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overdrive and distortion are not really anything new, they've been around as long as amplifiers have
 
Kojak said:
overdrive and distortion are not really anything new, they've been around as long as amplifiers have
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True, however not in the amount they're used now (I'd even dare to say they're a kind of overused nowadays).
 
great thread! i'm too tired to give my own insight to the matter, but i think "i'll be back"

On mastering / mixing issues, the gear used REALLY is a one part of the sound, old SSL or tape stuff sounds completely different when comapred to some no frills digi 002 from today.

Edit: wherether the musics sounds OUTdated, really is the listeners issue. Even dated-sounding music can be really fresh.
 
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Xabiton said:
i think it highly depends on the music u r making. Some instruments will just never go out of style.
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...............except YOUR xp-30:rolleyes:


:p
 
Here there are the tracks. Please listen Clouds of hope short and Clouds of Hope long. The other tracks on the list are from previous years, so they are a good reference about how the new synths made me change the sound

I recorded them one after another on realtime, sequencing a Roland Vsynt, Virus T1, and a Korg Electribe EMX1 with a command station.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=257399
coucher_lune_rouge.jpg

crappy soundclick allows 128kbp!!!!
 
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These "Clouds of Hope" tracks makes me put on my dancing shoes... Yeah I'm not joking; these are imho superb elektro tracks - well done Balma !!
Comparing these with previous tracks is always hard to do; other songs, other instruments, other compositions; I mean it's pretty obvious that you hear many differences.

But like I meant before, it's typical for modern dance tracks that there's much more presence in the high-mid and higher frequencies, could be due to the synths itselves, but actually could be due to the mixing/mastering too.
And also typical nowadays is the high amount of compression and maximizing (sorry I forgot mentioning the maximizing in my previous posts).

But again: great elektro tracks !!
 
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