So I guess producers who use session players are lazy unless they wrote out every piece for the session player? I mean that's all you're getting with construction kits are session player loops. No difference between having a session player there with you.
Lets get real. Most people dont really have any idea what happens when a player is brought in to play on a track.
Almost none of you have actually seen that happen.
You are imagining what it would be, and cant.
This is why this discussion is so completely off;
A lot of people somehow imagine that the musician comes in, sets up, and just starts playing whatever comes to their mind with no input. Or maybe that the producer says 'You know, somethin funky.', or whatever, and thats it.
People who have no concept of music as collaboration or as a creative process somehow cant understand how it works.
Like TDOT replied, there is a lot of back and forth that happens when you hire someone to play on your track.
Its not like you put them on random and record to have shit to chop up later.
Well, maybe some people do that. I dont know.
And on to your point on pride. It's not the end product that's important it's your vision that's important. I can give 10 different people the same loop and they'll make ten different instrumentals. Why? because they're working toward their vision and each of them have a different vision of were they wanna go. Think of how many people have sampled the amen brother drum loop or the funky drummer loop.
Well here is where I get shitty and question peoples' "vision".
What are the chances that a loop that you randomly stumble upon just happens to fit into the "vision"?
Fukking zero-ish.
The real reason why?
Cuz most people are just fukking around. Banging buttons. Chopping shit up. Seeing what happens.
There is no 'vision'. Its random banging around with barely understood tools.
Thats what I am doing a good 60% of the time.
A real vision for a track, had by someone who does not play instruments, is exactly why studio musicians are important, and are not anything like using a loop.
And something like the amen break or funky drummer is a totally different thing. Those are used (nowadays) because they are a particular thing. They are a famous sound on their own. Its not like every single D+B producer over the years stumbled across the amen break on their own and thought it was great. They copied each other on purpose.
What we are talking about here is randomness. Grabbing a random folder on a random sample disc, and thinking 'yeah, that guitar loop
might work.'
1. Most beat makers are super wack compared to people making construction kits......even producers with plaques.
Ok, agreed, but heres some logic for ya;
Producers making beats with construction kits are exactly as wack as the kit.
So.... if they are so hot, I will buy beats from those guys.
2. Why would I pay some dude $300 for an mp3 file? And then end up in a legal dispute later.
-Cuz its a wav and you sell it for $800.
-You get a contract and a lawyer.
I can buy one royalty free construction kit that has five kits of beats in it..that all blow away the beatmaker selling me a beat.....for 90% of the beatmaker's price.......24 bit wav files.
Ok. So maybe I flip your beats then.
Or maybe I flip the ones a lil better than yours, etc.
No co producer credits for you....all credit for me!!!!!
Oh no. My purchases would include ghost writing. No credit for you once you sell to me. 
How much would that cost?
Say it costs double your regular asking price.
Say I do that to the ten hottest producers I can find.
How long til I am the hottest producer you can find?
See?
Would you call me a biter/sucker?
Or would you give me respect like the others, because I am successful?
suckas can have fun biting my style because now the site where I bought the kit from got me all over it....because now I'M A SUPER PRODUCER by default.
lol-
"Your style"?
And good luck there SUPER, with your construction-kit-site sponsorship lol...
Great career move, Im sure.
Just screams 'legit musician' to clients.
hold one key and strum your ass off...sweating and shit like you recording with a guitar for real. Hold one key and you playing real orchestra epicness....
Oh, great.
Yeah, have some pride in that.
You are literally just pressing a button... lol.
What are yall going to do....
Maybe, learn how to be a musician of some kind?
Learn how to play an instrument?
Learn how to 'play' more than one fukking key? Maybe?
...illegally download 300 gigs? Shit....
Oh Im sure you are 100% legit with all your sample discs lol.
lol....makes no sense to use those outdated guitar patches and shit.
Right, cuz then you have to press more than one key lol. Ugh,
hard.
And dumbasses out there,
playing guitars even lol.
Want somebody to pat you on the back and say good job because you made all of those Native Instrument sound come together to sound like it was a live band for real......only to find out a construction kit blows that away.
Its called pride in ones craft.
It is seriously kind of shocking to see that no one has it, or is interested in having it.
End results, right?
So;
Im interested in the ghost producing thing...
Serious question-
How much would you charge to sell your hottest tracks every month, anonymously?
Im buyin mofos.
Why not just buy beats off of other people who are actually talented, and put em up as your own?
Self-serving question to say that everyone who makes beats is talented because of their workflow, which is the ONE you think is right.
Suppose I want and buy a beat from a guy that uses loops?
Not everyone that makes music is especially musically talented.
And that top 3% is more talented than the bottom 97%
can even understand.
To say it in a way that seems more the vibe of FP these days- Some beats are much more commercially viable (i.e. Saleable) than others.
And in this scenario, I dont care if he is using loops. I am trying to see things from the other point of view, and imo, buying ghost productions is the logical next step.
Even better if they use loops really, cuz then its easier for them, and they have more product for me to buy and flip.
It also suggests that EVERY loop is useable and good because it's a loop. And there is never the EAR of me deciding which loop to use with what- in what role.
Which in reverse suggests EVERYTHING YOU PLAY must be good and useable because you played it and EVERY BEAT you make is great because you made each element close-enough-from-scratch to say it's yours.
I dont know how you would come to these conclusions.
Completely backwards logic.
Also- Defending loops by distilling your creative input down to
deciding which loop out of pile to use?
Dayum.
If its the end product that matters, then why not take the most efficient way to the best product?
Someone who thinks loops are great, please answer that.
I don't know anyone why said this was Black and White so I have no idea who is supposed to be answering this.
The IDEA is exactly that- to approach music-making from the most efficient way possible to get at the BEST RESULTS.
Read that twice before you skim past it and say you still don't understand this issue.
Right, efficiency is valued, so that is why I asked- Why not take the most efficient route and just buy/resell beats?
Only people who value efficiency over all else really need to explain their stance on that.
Need a guitar element in a song. Don't have/play guitar. You could:
a) Use a guitar loop.
b) Sample a guitar from a record
c) Play a guitar patch from a workstation (soft or hard)
d) Hire a session guitarist.
e) Take guitar lessons
I would make my decision based on my current needs, time constraints, resources and how often this scenario arises and the overall IMPORTANCE of this guitar element.
I would NOT base it on my EGO. And lastly don't confuse pride with ego. Two different things.
I might have a different order of steps there, but I basically agree with your process, although I dont understand what you mean by the difference between pride and ego.
Not the best IMO example, found in one google click, but dope, real dope don't wanna take anything from this guy....and this beat has all the essence of a sampled hip hop track while being completely royalty free. If Dre made it people would call it genius.
Just saw that. I think thats a great example of a more "legitimate" way to use loops.
To me that is really just sampling, and the source happens to be a loop.
