C Major 7 chord in the F major scale

[b.b.]

I'm using the F major scale and I made a chord progression that I wanted to end with C Major 7 chord. The notes in that chord are C, E, G and B. But the note B doesn't exist in the F major scale. So... I can create C Major chord but not C Major 7 chord using this scale? Thanks!

 

[Cyko]

That's fine... The CM7 is the diatonic V chord in the Key of F

Just like Eb isn't in the key of CM, you can still use it as F-A-C-Eb

But if you're worried about that B you can always make the CM7 a C7 chord (C E G Bb) by flattening the 7th. But I warn you, it will create high tension. It'll also make that chord a pivotal point.

 

[b.b.]

That's fine... The CM7 is the diatonic V chord in the Key of F

Just like Eb isn't in the key of CM, you can still use it as F-A-C-Eb

Man, I think I'm probably missing out something big time but isn't D# in Cm scale which is also Eb, right? But in F major scale there is no B, there is not that white note between A and C used in the scale but still it would be ok to use it when using C major 7 chord? Maybe it's something that I don't get with the sharps and flats...?

See? How could C Major 7 fit F Major scale?



And I mean it works, the C Major 7 works great in the progression, but why is it? I just noticed it cause I used the scale quantization option in Logic which moves every note that is off the scale to the chosen scale in the piano roll. I just kinda checked that if everything was correct. Now I'm confused. Yes, it sounds great so I'm gonna go with it, but still I'd be interested to know what is going on.

 

[b.b.]

Ok I get it now. The V seventh chord in major scale is always dominant seventh chord so the last note has to be flattened. Even though I think C7 sounds worse than using the actual Cmaj7. But C7 would be "correct"...

 

[Cyko]

Man, I think I'm probably missing out something big time but isn't D# in Cm scale which is also Eb, right? But in F major scale there is no B, there is not that white note between A and C used in the scale but still it would be ok to use it when using C major 7 chord? Maybe it's something that I don't get with the sharps and flats...?

See? How could C Major 7 fit F Major scale?

View attachment 45593 View attachment 45594

And I mean it works, the C Major 7 works great in the progression, but why is it?

It's quite simple

Diatonic chords M m m M M m dim. It's the same for every single Key (Major)

In other words I ii iii IV V vi vii (dim)

F is your tonic (I'm assuming), C is your IV chord which is a major.

Starting on F (Diatonic chords)

FM7
Gm7
Am7
BbM7
CM7
Edim

Now in this example, I've used 7th chords. But they could be regular triads, or any mix of extensions mM, 6 add 9 sus's, 6ths, 13ths etc

You also also play All Dom7's

C7: CEGBb
F7 FACEb
G7 and so on

That's still a I IV V progression in C ...This would be more of a Boogy Woogy type of sound.

Or... if we wrote this for F it would be a V-I-ii (7ths of course)

Notes don't have to be the same for the chords to work. Look at C and D... Heck you can stack those two CEGBDFA and you have a CMaj7 and Dminor which make a C 13

 

[scrapheaper]

Firstly, are you sure it's in F major? Are there any other chords in the progression that contain B flats? If there aren't, you may actually be in C major

Secondly, even if you are in F major, you can borrow notes chords from other keys... I find sticking to one key a little boring sometimes and often rapidly change keys in my chord progressions (example in my signature). There's such a thing as 'accidentals' and IMO they make for much stronger and more interesting chord progressions if used well