Budget headphone recommendation for mixing/monitoring & a ton of related questions

Mezaven

Mezaven

New member
Budget headphone recommendation for mixing/monitoring & a ton of related questions

Hey all,
I have owned Pioneer SE MJ51 for the past 3 years and they are okay but definitely not for mixing and monitoring, because the bass is LOT higher than the treble, low volume, bad distortion around 8k-12k Hz, couldn't find any corrective EQ and build quality sucks because its wire got broke (the one inside the can connected to the speaker unit) more than 3 times, the headband that connects the cans broke and now it's attached with glue, also finally the wire that connects to the jack broke, had to cut off a cheap earphone and solder it's jack to the headphones. And it also caused my first mix to be pretty disastrous (in my signature...)

tl;dr : My previous can sucks.

So I have been looking around in the market and also reading in the forums about which headphone to buy for mixing and light monitoring as well.My budget would be around $100-$150 (max $200).

Lot of people said MDR 7506 and HD 280 Pro. Now many have even said MDR 7506 is more flatter and has a better build quality than HD 280. Also that HD 280 has more bass than MDR 7506. So has anyone compared them side by side ? If I compare a mix made in those cans to a mix made in a monitor speaker, which one will be the closest ? Is there anything better than them in my budget and have you compared them side by side too ?

Questions about Open Backs :
Why are open backs so expensive ? Will mixing in open back or close back make any difference ? should I go for those expensive open backs or save money to buy monitors in the future ? Is there any open back in my budget which will be as good and flat as the closed backs ?

And also questions about Audio Interface :
Will buying an audio interface improve the quality ? Will the mix made in headphone with audio interface will be better than the mix made in headphone without an audio interface ? If audio interface works as an external soundcard, will it take load off from my CPU and RAM ? What factor should I look into to see how much load it'll take off from CPU ? I was looking at Steinberg UR12 and Roland UA 11, is there any soundcard better than them around their price (around $100 and I don't need MIDI I/O) ?

Answers are much appreciated, thank you ! :D
 
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I own a pair of Sony MDR V6 (very similar to the one you mentioned) they are relatively flat with the exception of the bass and high end. The bass response is definitely lower compared to the rest of the audible range, but not too low that it is difficult to do work. There might also be a slight boost in the high end. I've gotten accustomed to its sound so none of that is an issue anymore.

An interface might help your country out a bit, but it wouldn't be that noticeable. I like having an interface because I can control the level coming from my headphones (great for preventing fatigue too early). I can also record audio and midi with it.
 
The short answer is this: spend a lot on monitoring and don't buy cheap crap. That's a very simply rule that many simply break and you are about to do so now, unless you read on.

Closed back cans are preferred over open back cans, because open back cans do not contain the sound stage, you have sound leakage especially in the low end. This causes an overall bass thin sound. You need not only fairly flat headphones but also headphones that sound good, so that you can properly A/B good sounding commercial reference songs with your work. Most headphones I know are causing a flat sound stage. Many can do a flat but wide sound stage, but very few cans can do a 3D sound stage.

Getting great mixing and mastering performance out of monitors or headphones is about listening to music through various monitors or headphones and learn how each impact the various songs you listen to. You simply have to learn your monitors, in relation to all of the dimensions it carries - width, depth, size, frequency response etc. The monitoring process is during execution a learning process, but also from a quality improvement and investment perspective a learning process. Once you know how they impact on the sound of the music you are familiar with, then you can compensate your sound accordingly. It won't sound good using only a single set, whether that is speakers or cans, but when you combine the right ones and discount the various sound types of each, at that point you are improving your monitoring setup.

Monitoring is not about tuning your room and your speakers and now you're done. Monitoring is a process, just like mixing is a process. The difference is that monitoring sits at the bottom of the entire music creation process, it drives the whole music creation process from start to finish, even the production/arrangement process. That is why it is so important.

Many think that great mixes out there are due to great mixing and mastering, in some cases yes, but in most cases it is about engineers that know the monitoring process very well. It is that they understand what they hear, differently than others, it is that they work with the monitors differently and so on... An accurate monitoring solution in combination with great monitoring skills is of course great sounding. (when the recorded sound is great)
 
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Audio Technica M50 works juts perfectly for me, I've been using this for a few years and the sound is really detailed, flat response and very good stereo. I don't know how much it should cost where you live but probably around 150$. Still more value for the money than an expensive Senheiser or Beyerdynamic that are quite the same based on my opinion.
 
DarkRed said:
Closed back cans are preferred over open back cans, because open back cans do not contain the sound stage, you have sound leakage especially in the low end. This causes an overall bass thin sound.
Click to expand...

Really? I've always thought the exact opposite - that open-backed sounds natural because it doesn't try to isolate in the way that closed-back does. This SOS article is somewhat ambiguous about it though and suggests both: Mixing On Headphones
 
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Not an expert on mixing but the srh440 sounds good.
Q40 by maudio sounds a lot like speakers too.

I think the minimum headphone should be panasonic's htf 600. That should be the minimum headphone anybody should consider imo.
 
krushing said:
Really? I've always thought the exact opposite - that open-backed sounds natural because it doesn't try to isolate in the way that closed-back does. This SOS article is somewhat ambiguous about it though and suggests both: Mixing On Headphones
Click to expand...

IMHO the article is not accurate. In many open back cans, including the Sennheiser HD 650 as mentioned in the article, there is not much enough reflection in the attack, this means you cannot easily hear the transients the way they sound on speakers, so you have to be ultra careful. This in combination with the low end leakage causes by default an unbalanced mix. This is to some degree corrected by the Sonarworks headphone calibration plugin, but there are issues left... I have not heard any open back cans that can do this well, but I have not heard them all, I've heard some of the best ones though... If I would group my closed back and open back cans and pick one of those groups, the choice would be easy - my closed back cans will in most situations serve me better.
 
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DarkRed said:
IMHO the article is not accurate. In many open back cans, including the Sennheiser HD 650 as mentioned in the article, there is not much enough reflection in the attack, this means you cannot easily hear the transients the way they sound on speakers, so you have to be ultra careful. This in combination with the low end leakage causes by default an unbalanced mix. This is to some degree corrected by the Sonarworks headphone calibration plugin, but there are issues left... I have not heard any open back cans that can do this well, but I have not heard them all, I've heard some of the best ones though... If I would group my closed back and open back cans and pick one of those groups, the choice would be easy - my closed back cans will in most situations serve me better.
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Good to know! What are you using atm? I've heard some good things about the Focal Spirit Professionals, especially in regards to sounding "monitor-like". They're indeed closed-back cans...
 
krushing said:
Good to know! What are you using atm? I've heard some good things about the Focal Spirit Professionals, especially in regards to sounding "monitor-like". They're indeed closed-back cans...
Click to expand...

It depends on what is at stake, because great monitoring is quite time consuming. But I use Ultrasone Signature DJ cans as my primary heavy duty cans, they have a natural sound stage that is not flat and they allow me to hear more easily when I have distortion in the signal, because they do not break up due to their 115 dB SPL. These I combine with a number of other cans, I know all of these very well, so during the monitoring process I know what cans I should be using how to do what on what monitoring volume. I definitely recomment the Ultrasone Signature DJ cans. Their weakness is the mid range in the sense that they are somewhat too silent in that area, but that means that when you take this into consideration, you tend to get the right amount of mid range intensity, which is very important for a good sounding mix.
 
Thank you all for giving me recommendations on different headphones, I'll surely look into them :o
DarkRed said:
The short answer is this: spend a lot on monitoring and don't buy cheap crap...great)
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First of all, Thank you for getting me new insights into this topic. I knew very little on the monitoring process.

You said that I should avoid buying cheap things when it comes to monitoring which is very vital for the whole music making process. I'd love to spend money on good cans because I pursue quality, but the problem is that I don't have much to spend on cans. And also I'm pretty new to this mixing and monitoring because I spent past few months learning daws, vsts and music theory. I pretty much have been neglecting the importance of getting good pair of headphones, because I trusted my Pioneer so much (also they were on some musicradar top fifteen list, shouldn't have trusted that either), and also thought because I could hear it well, so others will hear it the same. Now that I've learned my mistake, I'd love to spend some on good cans.

I know, that the ones you have or would suggest me, will be way out of budget, but still, is there anything you can recommend, that'll be closest to my budget ? (I'll wait till I can buy them, but at least I know they'll be worth it)

Questions : Buying multiple cans would be better or buying a can and a monitor speaker ? and How can one learn their monitors ? ( I know it sounds stupid but I honestly don't know how to)

Also another question : You said very few headphones can give a wide 3D sound stage, but shouldn't monitor speakers be used for this sound stage purpose ? Because as far as I know, things like cross field and stereo imaging happens best in monitor speakers and doesn't happens in headphones


Thank you :D
 
I'd go with decent nearfield monitors and a decent set of cans... Should be enough for the majority of home studios...

If you plan on tracking vocals or instruments get closed back headphones...

If you plan on tracking someone who isn't you and you only have one room - get 2 pairs of closed back headphones (and depending on how many headphone outs you have... A headphone amp)

Job done.
 
I'mNoGuru said:
I'd go with decent nearfield monitors and a decent set of cans... Should be enough for the majority of home studios...

If you plan on tracking vocals or instruments get closed back headphones...

If you plan on tracking someone who isn't you and you only have one room - get 2 pairs of closed back headphones (and depending on how many headphone outs you have... A headphone amp)

Job done.
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so your preferred cans in my budget ($150) ?

Shaded Pest said:
AKG K240 is very good at cost-effective relation
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Do you own that ? They are semi open so how are they for mixing ?

ovivalentino said:
I wouldn't monitor solely on headphones. I recommend ath-m50 really good for a decent price.
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Frequency curve shows there's too much bass so I'm a bit doubtful that they will be good for mixing, but for listening purpose, I'd love to try them !

Thanks and Merry Christmas ! :o
 
Regardless of what you choose, you will have to learn how the headphones/monitors sound in your listening position. To do this, mix a few tracks or audio clips/loops with what you have. When it sounds how you'd like it, pull in a few references (ones that are renowned for their quality). This will help you point out the consistent frequency differences between gear.

Some tips on using a reference:

The reference is likely to be mastered. It will probably have a balanced frequency range and it will probably be loud. Bring down the level of the reference so that it matches your track. Bringing the loud track down will better suit referencing another track do to how our ears perceive sounds at various levels (I can be more detailed hear if you want. If not, look into fletcher-munsen). You can now hear a fair distinction between the frequency balance of your mix on your headphones vs the frequency balance achieved by professionals.
 
Mezaven said:
so your preferred cans in my budget ($150) ?
Click to expand...

DT770 or ATH-M50X

As of today I have the Audio Technicas... They sound much better than my old (really old) DT100's... A lot more comfortable than I thought they'd be as well which is a pleasant surprise too... They came out about 40quid cheaper than the DT770's and we're on a fair tight budget so that's what I asked wifey to get me for Christmas.

Had a little play on the MPC and listened to a couple albums this evening on the M50X's and I'm definitely happy. Fair amount of plastic but they seem solid enough (and I generally respect my gear)

I love the DT100's but my pair are 600ohms which for some pieces of gear (my MPC for instance) are just too quiet. They've been a solid set though (literally solid - you could beat a man to death with them!), all parts easily replaceable - got mine used at 17 (I'm 36 now) and they're as good sounding now as ever... Damn comfy.

I assume that the DT770 are of a similar standard

To be clear though... I don't mix in cans... I use them in production when the kids are sleeping and I can't use my nearfields and for 'checking' mixes for reference...
 
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