Beats - Complexity vs Simplicity
- Thread starter j.troup
- Start date
I've always interpreted Pop to mean "dont sound too soulful" My pops has a Motown book and it said even Marvin Gaye thought many of his early Motown's tracks were too pop for his own taste. Berry Gordy had a keen understanding of pop music and convinced him otherwise. Curtis Mayfield's music is what I consider the opposite of what pop music is.
J
JuggernautBlack
Guest
Most pop songs I've heard still have actual swing in their drums too. Every hip-hop song that comes out sounds like they are quantized exactly the same.. If Timbo dropped a trap beat tomorrow and it went uncredited, it would still sound like Timbo even based solely on his drum timing..
mwandishi
New member
Ya, I'm a big Elle fan (not too big on refill though) but i'm not sure she's ready for the pop move.
I think this young lady might blow, gettin heavy buzz in the UK but not sure if she'll get luv in the states:
im1ufo
New member
Simple beats are almost always best when you want the vocals to stand out.
but if you have a simple beat AND simple lyrics...that is ****ing wack to me
I suppose if you have a complex beat you can hide your simple wackass lyrics lol
For the most part complex beats should be saved for instrumental music I think
There are only a few producer/rapper combinations out there that can pull off complex beats AND complex lyrics without making it sound like a mess.
Just my 2 cents.
---------- Post added at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 AM ----------
on the subject of Pop Music....
the best pop musicians of all time (THE BEATLES) had deceptively simple songs. most of their stuff is actually pretty complex.
so I think SUBTLE COMPLEXITY always wins out
People will be listening to The Beatles in 100 years....no one will be listening to Katy Perry in 10 years.
but if you have a simple beat AND simple lyrics...that is ****ing wack to me
I suppose if you have a complex beat you can hide your simple wackass lyrics lol
For the most part complex beats should be saved for instrumental music I think
There are only a few producer/rapper combinations out there that can pull off complex beats AND complex lyrics without making it sound like a mess.
Just my 2 cents.
---------- Post added at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 AM ----------
on the subject of Pop Music....
the best pop musicians of all time (THE BEATLES) had deceptively simple songs. most of their stuff is actually pretty complex.
so I think SUBTLE COMPLEXITY always wins out
People will be listening to The Beatles in 100 years....no one will be listening to Katy Perry in 10 years.
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smh at both....
EnigmaticHipster
New member
the real question is where does the line draw.
pop is fine and dandy but if you really want something that makes you dance listen to electro swing and french house. shit listen to any kind of deep/bass house along with some afro Caribbean beats. and all you niggas know who the famous ones of those genre's are like daft punk and justice. if they can play songs like these on the radio constantly i swear people wouldn't want to stop dancing
shit artist like theophilius london and asap rocky have improved with songs like these.
that's what urban music needs is variety and hip-hop has always had that especially when it came to sampling ANY kind of music from rock to funk to dance and even to arabian music, it just seem we need to find a way back
here's an example yall should remember where this loop came from but look how the artist sampled the Arabian music and made it something trill
pop is fine and dandy but if you really want something that makes you dance listen to electro swing and french house. shit listen to any kind of deep/bass house along with some afro Caribbean beats. and all you niggas know who the famous ones of those genre's are like daft punk and justice. if they can play songs like these on the radio constantly i swear people wouldn't want to stop dancing
shit artist like theophilius london and asap rocky have improved with songs like these.
that's what urban music needs is variety and hip-hop has always had that especially when it came to sampling ANY kind of music from rock to funk to dance and even to arabian music, it just seem we need to find a way back
here's an example yall should remember where this loop came from but look how the artist sampled the Arabian music and made it something trill
j.troup
New member
I think you hit the nail on the head right there. Lyricism in urban music has gone down the tube. So to make up for that, the beats have taken center stage, and have had to become ever more complex, to save the overall song.
Pop music is more so about the SONG. The lyrics, the melodies, etc.
There are some really good pop records coming out right now. To be honest, it reminds me of the 80's, when there was just pop hit after hit after hit after hit.
I like it.
i think part of the reason is that we're turning it into a process and looking for a "formula" rather than just doing music.
and the fact that everyone's referencing music as being urban sounds kinda contrived. when i think of "urban" music, i think of a music award show with someone announcing "best urban music performance...blah blah blah" in that voice.
but that too, might even be part of the eventual progression as we level up so to speak.
daft punk is house, but i think their songs become "pop" because they transcend their genres. same thing with justice. and any hit that became a hit because it was a good song, and not just a pairing of names, or "formula" based.
think about a song like "one more time" if you played that at a techno club, techno purists wouldn't get upset because it's four to the floor.
the a house dj throws it in a set, and the house people are lovin the groove.
the pop people are feelin it because its a good song. upbeat, deceptively simple lyrics...
you play that in a "urban music" club and folks will dance, because they want to dance, and the song feels good. some folks might stop dancing but some songs are undeniable. and that's what makes them "pop."
and the fact that everyone's referencing music as being urban sounds kinda contrived. when i think of "urban" music, i think of a music award show with someone announcing "best urban music performance...blah blah blah" in that voice.
but that too, might even be part of the eventual progression as we level up so to speak.
daft punk is house, but i think their songs become "pop" because they transcend their genres. same thing with justice. and any hit that became a hit because it was a good song, and not just a pairing of names, or "formula" based.
think about a song like "one more time" if you played that at a techno club, techno purists wouldn't get upset because it's four to the floor.
the a house dj throws it in a set, and the house people are lovin the groove.
the pop people are feelin it because its a good song. upbeat, deceptively simple lyrics...
you play that in a "urban music" club and folks will dance, because they want to dance, and the song feels good. some folks might stop dancing but some songs are undeniable. and that's what makes them "pop."
im1ufo
New member
I don't really listen to much modern pop but over time I was able to warm up to 80's pop(best decade for pop music no doubt)...maybe the same will happen if I open my mind up to the new stuff coming out.
The only Pop I listened to growing up in the 80's was probably Michael Jackson...forget the fact that he was a great singer.....he had great music to sing to...have we been even close to seeing something touch Thriller this century?
Modern Pop needs to go balls out and make EPIC music...for example:
Spinner87
Jawnson
To me personally, i like when songs or beats have a strong melody. Sadly, urban music doesn't (at least nowadays) have a strong melody and that's why i'm leaning more towards to the pop/rock genre.
I'm not like dudes that makes a thousand beats in a day, simply because i always ask myself, does this melody really moves me? If not, i'll delete that melody and come up with something better.
What i'm trying to say is, the era i grew up listening to music, all contained strong melodies. And i think that kinda stucked with me till now.
But yeah, i love the new Katy Perry record. Cause the whole song is just mindblowing to me.
By the way, labrinth is a awesome musician.
I'm not like dudes that makes a thousand beats in a day, simply because i always ask myself, does this melody really moves me? If not, i'll delete that melody and come up with something better.
What i'm trying to say is, the era i grew up listening to music, all contained strong melodies. And i think that kinda stucked with me till now.
But yeah, i love the new Katy Perry record. Cause the whole song is just mindblowing to me.
By the way, labrinth is a awesome musician.
Mr SS
New member
Thanks for postin this, i was impressed after hearing "earthquake" and seeing this makes me wanna check his music
Dr.Luke has like 80 to over 100 tracks loaded for each of those song. So I'll say lucks Production is way more complex then you think.
j.troup
New member
Where'd you hear this?
Cuz I'm pretty good at listening down into a track to hear each individual layer. Now if we're talking vocals AND instruments, then sure...my songs average about 80 tracks total.
But just in INSTRUMENTS. Nah...I don't hear that in the instrumentals I posted above...specifically The One That Got Away.
the biggest mistake IS that a beat has to be super complex. Producers are always trying to make the BEAT a full SONG before the vocalist gets on it and thats why they end up sounding cluttered an messy. Theres always times im like damn this shit is TOO ****IN EASY!/too simple and im like well it just is what it is lol.
I think some people just tend to over complicate because they feel what theyve done is "too easy" even when it sounds just fine the way it is.
I think some people just tend to over complicate because they feel what theyve done is "too easy" even when it sounds just fine the way it is.
j.troup
New member
You're absolutely right. I'm listening to these pop records, and the beat doesn't overpower the music.
I think one of the worst things to happen to popular music is when people started knowing who the producer was. The producer should NEVER be more known than the artist.
Thats the whole reason I went this producing route, cause its more behind the scenes. The shape of the music industry is kind of forcing us to come out of hiding a little bit, lol, but still I cant be no gimmicky artist. I dont even know if I really wanna be famous lol. I wanna make "hits" or at least bangers that hit the charts a little, and stuff that people really vibe out to; it would be cool to be known for that, but some of these ppl out here want that people-recognize-you everywhere you go fame. Not me lol
Dont have the link but it's on YouTube called ( Dr.Luke the hit maker ) go to 4:35 and the song he's working
on is Kathy perry teen age dream ( 182 ) tracks.
www.soundcloud.com/jones1107
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B-Cool
New member
I'm definitely feeling Karmin right now! And whoever said hip hip is "unispiring" right now hit the nail on the head.