beatmatching with sound vs waveforms

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BrownWonda

BrownWonda

indians love hip-hop.
So i finally jumped into the art of djing after years of wanting to, and I decided to hold off on serato to teach myself the basics with vinyl. I quickly realized that beatmatching is a lot harder than it looks, and Iv heard dj's saying beatmatching with serato is much easier, but you should still learn on vinyls first.
My question is this tho, is there any distinct advantage to learning how to beatmatch with sound before moving to serato? I feel like djing isnt the art of beatmatching, its about mixing and scratching, so wouldnt the quicker I can get beatmatching down, the faster I can get to learn actual djing
 
You'll never be really good at DJing if you have to stare at the computer screen to mix records. Period.
 
but how is that tho? Once the bpms are matched, isnt that when the real dj work begins? People in the club aren't going crazy over the beatmatching, theyre dancing to the feeling and mood the dj conveys
 
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A good DJ should be able to beatmatch by ear. Period. If you can't beatmatch, you're not a DJ, just a guy with a lot of money to spend on gear.
 
alright, but how is the guy who beatmatches by ear any better than a guy who relies on waveforms? a guy using serato can probably beatmatch faster and more accurately than a guy doing it by ear, but either way, that doesnt have anything to do how well each dj is cutting, mixing, etc. It seems to me like you're shooting yourself in the foot just to say you can do it by sound, when there are other aspects of djing that matter more to the audience. it feels like how people say using arpeggiators or samples is cheating cuz u should play them urself.
 
BrownWonda said:
but how is that tho? Once the bpms are matched, isnt that when the real dj work begins?
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Even though you get beats matched up, they very rarely stay in time. The beats will float and you have to adjust the pitch as the beats drift.

BrownWonda said:
People in the club aren't going crazy over the beatmatching, theyre dancing to the feeling and mood the dj conveys
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People ain't going crazy over train wreaking either. Ultimately, you're going to learn the way you want. The only one you're cheating is yourself. Ultimately, you want the respect of your fellow dj peers. Are you going to earn that by staring at the computer screen?
 
come on man, ur tellin me if two djs of equal skill set are cutting, ur gonna look at one sideways cuz he learned on waveforms?
btw i dont completely disagree with u guys, but i sense an air of snobbishness when it comes to this topic, not from u directly, amongst purists
 
BrownWonda said:
come on man, ur tellin me if two djs of equal skill set are cutting, ur gonna look at one sideways cuz he learned on waveforms?
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You say "equal skill sets," but is it really equal if one person can do it with records and on the computer, versus someone who can only do it by looking at the screen? If someone challenges you to a battles and says your ****s whack and all you do is stare at the screen, what are you going to do?

Last time I checked, there wasn't a Serato category in the DMC. Like I said, you're going to learn the way you want. But what are you going to do when someone kicks that crutch out from under you?


BrownWonda said:
btw i dont completely disagree with u guys, but i sense an air of snobbishness when it comes to this topic, not from u directly, amongst purists
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Honestly, I don't really care what other people do or how they chose to learn. Like I said, you're only cheating yourself.
 
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Look at it like this:

The people dancing/vibing to the music aren't looking at a waveform. They are hearing it. That's what you should focus on. How the music sounds and what the people are hearing...

Besides that, your eyes and ears can deceive you when trying to match a visual input with an audible one.

Also, training your ear to pick up on subtle tempo variations proves very useful in any aspect of music outside of DJ'ing.

btw, there is some snobbishness from real DJ's towards people who can't do the most basic things like beatmatching without a computer, and rightfully so in my book. There wouldn't be any of these fancy DJ apps without the purists who learned through trial and error. If you respect the craft you have to respect the roots...

Bottom line, learn to beatmatch by ear and it will put you far ahead of those who beatmatch by waveform.

Peace!
 
a lot that has been mentioned is right on. one other thing people often overlook is the 'just in case' factor. i love love love serato, however i still bring atleast a bag of records in my car when going to a gig... if your computer crashes or music is erased or or or... you can still go ol' school.

others are right.. the 'snobishness' is the fact that we have spent literally hours and hours perfecting the craft. if i had a dollor for every sucka that 'wanted to dj' .. some going as far as buying gear to realize 'its a lot harder than it looks'

if u can mix with just the waveforms... great, do you... i say there is no downside (besides the extra practice) in knowing how to do both.
 
its also aloooooooooooot more fun just slappin on vinyl and doin it the good old fashioned way by ear.
 
Ok...i know and understand both sides of this argument, but its as simple as this: When people only had stick-shift, people used it...but I'll be damned if it isn't more efficient to use an automatic transmission. I've learned on regular vinyl and use Serato now and its an air of elitism when it comes to vinyl these days. Its kind of "we used to walk barefoot in the snow to school...uphill...BOTH WAYS!!" when it comes to purists.

We forget whats important. THE MUSIC. I don't care if you use vinyl, Serato, orchestral group, barbershop quartet. If it sounds good - GO WITH IT. If I like a song, I don't say "maaaaaaan, he didn't play that with a real trumpet and rhodes piano". Good is good. If I'm with a chick and she makes me eeeer ummm..."get there"...I don't say "maaaaaaan, she cheated - she used a new-school technique".

Even with SERATO, you gotta know where to drop a song, count-in songs, and know when the songs will be out of phase with one-another.

SERATO is good because after you Build your Overviews, you can use your pitch slider and it will transform your pitch change percentage to a new BPM, so you cut out the extra-cumbersome stuff.
 
Johnpuga1982 said:
Did you figure out what you're going to do?
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gonna take some time to learn the basics on vinyl since I have a bunch around anyway, but most likely gonna move to serato after a few months. interestingly enough, i managed to beatmatch properly on vinyl today, even though they went out of sync after like 20 secs

LMNOPoly said:
When people only had stick-shift, people used it...but I'll be damned if it isn't more efficient to use an automatic transmission.
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bad analogy. pro drivers and anyone who is into cars uses a stick shift, gives them more control, us regular guys dont need that. but i still dont understand how learning on vinyl makes you a better dj just cuz u can do it by ear, without eyes. its the same application just different methods. if its about preserving the culture, thats great and respect that, but dont sass me if i prefer like digital.
 
If you can beatmatch using a waveform then you might as well forget being a DJ, because I could program a robot to operate based on that formula and you will be made obsolete.

Much harder to get a robot to listen.
 
but the robot cant read the mood of the crowd, think of how to progress the set, and take different directions with the music. u can program that robot for me cuz i still think beatmatching isnt an art, its a technical necessity. the real art of djing is ur mixing and/or scratching. but hey, this is coming from a guy who spent a lot more time on the dance floor than in the booth, but then again who's performing for who?
i work part time in a restaurant, and i know some chefs who say using a meat thermometer for steaks is cheating, but most of the cooks where i work use one anyway, cuz the customer doesnt care how u got it cooked right, they just want it done
 
Robots can mix and scratch too.

It's not like you'll be mixing a set and somebody walks in with a 'secret' white label release and it changes the whole night.

I could program a set which would work.

I could measure the room temperature, use room mics and sensors to analyse the crowd.

Nobody really scratches or does anything a robot can't do in a club, do you think a robot can't do a filter sweep?

Give up before it's too late.
 
Seriously, THIS IS MUSIC. IT'S ABOUT HEARING.

If you want to use your eyes, go be a graphic artist or something.

And it does matter that you use vinyl. When you're on big club speakers, mp3s sound like $#!t, vinyl is still the best sound in the game. Hell, I'm in NYC, and there are a lot of places that require that your sets are all vinyl. And I'm not talking just the Hip Hop clubs; the Rock-a-Billy, Indie, Jazz, etc, clubs all are into vinyl. It's how they keep out the "I'm going to give DJing a try"-set.

P.S. Let me ruffle some feathers: IF YOU MIX BETTER WITH YOUR EYES, YOU ARE NOT A MUSICIAN/DJ/Producah, etc. Go get a cracked version of Photoshop or something. The really talented people are closing their eyes when it comes time to make music.
 
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BrownWonda said:
but how is that tho? Once the bpms are matched, isnt that when the real dj work begins? People in the club aren't going crazy over the beatmatching, theyre dancing to the feeling and mood the dj conveys
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Wrong they might not know its called beat matching or mixing and blending but they do know dam well when its off beat. You havent had any experiance DJ'ing in a club environment I see. They aint going to dance and feel the mood if your **** is offbeat.
 
im not talking about mixing with my eyes, or scratching, effects sweeps or any of the other numerous things djs do to rock the crowd, im just talkin about beatmatching. the most basic function a dj must do before he even thinks about moving on to the otheraspects of djing i mentioned.
 
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