Bare-E Raws
New member
Howdy folks! I try my hardest to make Electronic tunes but I when i start arranging it seems like my progress comes to a grinding halt! You fellers know of any tips, rules er' advice to smooth out the whole process?
Know any Arrangement Rules and Tips?
- Thread starter Bare-E Raws
- Start date
bandcoach
Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
Do you mean structure or layering?
Structure
see this article
Layering
There are usually four layers in a track:
In addition, it is normal to think about orchestrating your track, which is, in part, based on your layering.
You should use octave doublings of your melody and counter-melody, particularly if you want them to cut through.
Use arpeggios and block chords in your harmony instruments to give a change of pace.
Bass is both harmonic and rhythmic, so loom to make it function at both levels by rhythmically synchronising with the kick wherever it makes sense to do so.
Structure
see this article
Layering
There are usually four layers in a track:
- Melody
- Counter-melody
- Harmony
- Rhythmic force
In addition, it is normal to think about orchestrating your track, which is, in part, based on your layering.
You should use octave doublings of your melody and counter-melody, particularly if you want them to cut through.
Use arpeggios and block chords in your harmony instruments to give a change of pace.
Bass is both harmonic and rhythmic, so loom to make it function at both levels by rhythmically synchronising with the kick wherever it makes sense to do so.
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SwagProductionz
@SlurRty on Twitter
rule 1... there are no rules... experiment with the shit.. i did and it it helped me make this track SoundClick artist: Cocaine Audio - THE BEST sh** THIS EARTH HAS EVER HEARD the hook part just ****in around and its a soundclick top 100 song right now..
Bare-E Raws
New member
Some very helpful info! I'll look more in depth into the 4 things you listed I think thats exactly what I have to study. And nice job on the song too Swag
F
FCNYJordan
Guest
Study Albums & Trance Tracks To See How The Dynamics Change & When Certain Instruments Come In At Which Parts
3ternal
New member
Come to think about it, there's a lot of ways to analyze music.
One way would be to graph out everything according to individual instruments.
I'm sure with enough of that you'll start noticing patterns within compositions.
Now if you do all of that in conjunction with looking at the waveforms of a song to give you an idea about the dynamics, that's even more info.
Now add to that maybe a spectrum analyzer.
Basically reading the question set off a light bulb in my head.
---------- Post added at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------
Also I've read it's pretty good/standard to have your song somehow changing at least every 4 bars be it drum patterns, instruments, effects or all of that.
One way would be to graph out everything according to individual instruments.
I'm sure with enough of that you'll start noticing patterns within compositions.
Now if you do all of that in conjunction with looking at the waveforms of a song to give you an idea about the dynamics, that's even more info.
Now add to that maybe a spectrum analyzer.
Basically reading the question set off a light bulb in my head.
---------- Post added at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------
Also I've read it's pretty good/standard to have your song somehow changing at least every 4 bars be it drum patterns, instruments, effects or all of that.
Bare-E Raws
New member
Ya i was actually thinking of making some empty midi bars in ableton in arrangement view and then naming accordingly to when there are builds and drops and so on when to add something and take it away etc. I'll start with the waveform in arrangement and use 3ternal's ideas and go from there. Thanks for the responses fellers keep em comin' if ya' got anymore!
bandcoach
Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
It's how I keep track of structural elements all the times (an empty track with different length parts named to the structural function).
There rest of what I gave you was based on decades of analysis and teaching, so don't discount its utility - it is a summary of over 100 000 songs I've studied or written (I've got about 1500 to my credit at the moment and playing list of another 5000 of the top of my head)
As for experimenting I don't think I suggested not to do it.
The concept that there are no rules in music is a falsehood and in fact a tautology, a logically inconsistent statement that has to be both true and false at the same time:
The statements are mutually exclusive or as they are referred to in boolean logic, only one of the two statements can be true but not both, they are in an Exclusive Or relationship.
If we accept statement A as true then we have to disregard statement B.
If we accept that statement B is true then we have to disregard statement A.
We cannot have no rules and a rule as both of the statements cannot be true. Similarly we cannot not have rules and not have no rules as both of these statement cannot be false.
There rest of what I gave you was based on decades of analysis and teaching, so don't discount its utility - it is a summary of over 100 000 songs I've studied or written (I've got about 1500 to my credit at the moment and playing list of another 5000 of the top of my head)
As for experimenting I don't think I suggested not to do it.
The concept that there are no rules in music is a falsehood and in fact a tautology, a logically inconsistent statement that has to be both true and false at the same time:
| Statement | |
| A | The first rule of music is |
| B | there are no rules |
| A | B | Result |
| True | True | False |
| True | False | True |
| False | True | True |
| False | False | False |
The statements are mutually exclusive or as they are referred to in boolean logic, only one of the two statements can be true but not both, they are in an Exclusive Or relationship.
If we accept statement A as true then we have to disregard statement B.
If we accept that statement B is true then we have to disregard statement A.
We cannot have no rules and a rule as both of the statements cannot be true. Similarly we cannot not have rules and not have no rules as both of these statement cannot be false.
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Bare-E Raws
New member
...This guys intense^
Thanks band coach but where it says see this article... Is there supposed to be a link to something? it says "structure" and then says see this article but every time i click on it nothin' happens. I dunno if there is supposed to be an article link imbedded in the word structure but I cant click it.
Thanks band coach but where it says see this article... Is there supposed to be a link to something? it says "structure" and then says see this article but every time i click on it nothin' happens. I dunno if there is supposed to be an article link imbedded in the word structure but I cant click it.
bandcoach
Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
The intensity comes from teaching primary school music all day then coming home and seeing nonsense like what was written.
Sorry about the link - that's what happens when you are typing three different sets of response at once, you sometimes forget to make sure everything has been included.
I fixed the original post and it will now link the article I intended it to....
Bare-E Raws
New member
kebeats
New member
It's called uh Catch 22. Btw thanks for that first post.
bandcoach
Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
Catch 22 is "you have to be crazy to fly" "but you can't fly if you're crazy", so the shrink in the book and movie can't certify them not to fly until they fly, but when they have landed the plane, they're not flying so he can't certify them not to fly i.e the outcome remains the same regardless of the logical states they gone through.
As for the first post, welcome......
As for the first post, welcome......
P
ProducerMan
Guest
There's none.
I know this thread is a bit old, but I thought I'd mention something that works for me. When dealing with song arrangement, a trick I learned is to apply rhythmic rules to your song arrangement. For example in a beat (lets say a 1 bar loop) you may have -
kick-hat(one) kicksnare-hat(two) kick-hat(three) kicksnare-openhat(four)
There's a rule of logic there, where as section one of the beat is identical to section three of the beat, but section four is a variation/changeup for the beat.
You can use this same theory in music (to an extent). Lets say your first 16 bars are a melody. The next 16 bars after that need to go somewhere entirely dynamically different, but the 16 bars after that return to the melody (but here you add something new to spice it up), and the fourth set of sixteen bars would be a large dynamic changeup (like a breakdown).
You can then invert this pattern or introduce new elements to this pattern.
kick-hat(one) kicksnare-hat(two) kick-hat(three) kicksnare-openhat(four)
There's a rule of logic there, where as section one of the beat is identical to section three of the beat, but section four is a variation/changeup for the beat.
You can use this same theory in music (to an extent). Lets say your first 16 bars are a melody. The next 16 bars after that need to go somewhere entirely dynamically different, but the 16 bars after that return to the melody (but here you add something new to spice it up), and the fourth set of sixteen bars would be a large dynamic changeup (like a breakdown).
You can then invert this pattern or introduce new elements to this pattern.
bandcoach
Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
Yes - this is the rhythmic density beloved of theorists when analysing tunes
your example will make more sense as
You can mix it up even more than limiting yourself to 16 bar phrases.
The concept of counter-melody and melody is based on mutually complementary rhythmic density, i.e. when the melody has fast notes the counter melody is resting or has long notes. The roles change, so that when the melody is resting or has long notes, the counter-melody has a multi-note phrase.
Harmonic rhythm, how frequently the harmony/chords change, may be taken over even longer phrase lengths so that you have the same chord for 2, 4 or 8 bars. The 12 bar blues is an example of a varied harmonic rhythm:
in C major
C /// | //// | //// | //// | F ///| //// | C /// | //// | G /// | F /// | C /// | G /// :||
3 chords are used, in the rhythm of 4:2:2:1:1:1:1 so that as the phrase progresses the harmonic rhythm becomes quicker
The Country 16 bar blues is an example of a similar idea:
in C major
C /// | G7 /// | //// | C /// | //// | G7 /// | //// | C /// || F /// | //// | C /// | //// | F /// | //// | D7 /// | G7 /// :||
4 chords are used, in the rhythm 1:2:2:2:1:2:2:2:1:1
The second half of the phrase shifts the quick changes to the end of the section, whereas the first half of the phrase wraps the quick changes around the more steady 2 bar chord rhythm.
your example will make more sense as
| OHH | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | X |
| CHH | - | X | - | X | - | X | - | - |
| Snare | - | - | X | - | - | - | X | - |
| Kick | X | - | X | - | X | - | X | - |
You can mix it up even more than limiting yourself to 16 bar phrases.
The concept of counter-melody and melody is based on mutually complementary rhythmic density, i.e. when the melody has fast notes the counter melody is resting or has long notes. The roles change, so that when the melody is resting or has long notes, the counter-melody has a multi-note phrase.
Harmonic rhythm, how frequently the harmony/chords change, may be taken over even longer phrase lengths so that you have the same chord for 2, 4 or 8 bars. The 12 bar blues is an example of a varied harmonic rhythm:
in C major
C /// | //// | //// | //// | F ///| //// | C /// | //// | G /// | F /// | C /// | G /// :||
3 chords are used, in the rhythm of 4:2:2:1:1:1:1 so that as the phrase progresses the harmonic rhythm becomes quicker
The Country 16 bar blues is an example of a similar idea:
in C major
C /// | G7 /// | //// | C /// | //// | G7 /// | //// | C /// || F /// | //// | C /// | //// | F /// | //// | D7 /// | G7 /// :||
4 chords are used, in the rhythm 1:2:2:2:1:2:2:2:1:1
The second half of the phrase shifts the quick changes to the end of the section, whereas the first half of the phrase wraps the quick changes around the more steady 2 bar chord rhythm.
This part is especially interesting to me. I am curious if this can be applied to more abstract characteristics of sound such as the frequency response, filtering type, phase, etc...
Your Reply was very helpful!
bandcoach
Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
Certainly no reason why you cannot apply the concept to synthesis and processing techniques, after all a LFO is simply a means of specifying a time cycle during which it causes a parameter to change
Extending such a concept to longer times or shorter time periods is a natural extension. The "Wob" bass of dubstep is an example of this practice
Extending such a concept to longer times or shorter time periods is a natural extension. The "Wob" bass of dubstep is an example of this practice