S
Serious Sound
New member
As a producer i sample alot so this really bothers. Wonders how kanye got by when he started.....
Aykey
The mother****in truth
How does it bother you?
That's how the game works.
If you're not clearing the sample...you're a thief...simple as that. I don't care how hot your sampled beat is. If you don't feel like clearing this 20 second loop you just used for your track, then you're just a little thief trying to make money with a song piece/musical score that doesn't belong to you, period.
See this is why i don't like all them upcoming sample-based producer, who think they can get away with using this 10 seconds intro part from another song and be like "**** it, i don't need to clear this ****, nobody will know, ima loop this **** up and sell it on soundclick as my own song...record company will do the rest"
I'm ok with sampling for fun...but actually trying to sell this looped 10 sec sample as your own **** without thinking about clearing it, charging 40 bucks leasing on soundclick?
Nah man...that ain't cool.
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GST
Imma rapper's producer!!!
good post
thx
thx
Preaux
Sampler/Composer
GST
Imma rapper's producer!!!
those statements are extreme and aren't really fair to sample based producers that don't do that..that just seems like a hatred on ppl getting money..it's thievery but I feel like selling wack beats is thievery too and it doesn't matter if you physically played every note on it or how much was charged..there's a difference between making beats for fun and working to obtain a successful career..we can not sit here and pretend that all of the dozens of sample based producers,new and old,followed exact protocol before they sold their first beat and we can't make them any better than the next or excuse them or start threads pulling their dyk just because they got themself a name in the process..thas that 'a rapper isn't wack cuz he sells records' attitude or how about two celebrity gangsta niggaz can kiss each other and the excuses pour in as to why it wasn't gay but let a pic of big rome and troup surface on the net and there wouldn't be an excuse in the world (just saying)
it's the same principle..one wrong gets excused according to who committed it while the other guy is just a straight up bum cuz nobody knows him
Aykey
The mother****in truth
Eitherway, it's stealing. There is no way you can excuse that.
I don't knock on sample based producers...i love sampled records.
And i respect talented cats who can flip a song and give it a hip hop twist.
But i'm talking about them dudes who are trying to charge 30 bucks for a 10 seconds sample which is looped throughout the hole beat and be like "**** it, i layed down some drums and now it's my track..noobody will know".
Now someone stole their **** cuz they activated the download option...guess what, them dudes will be the first ones to lose it and be all pissed about this dude who just jacked his ****...yet he's doing the same **** with that artist he got the sample from.
See my point?
I doubt you would be all chill if a random dude decides to take a certain part of your song and sample it to sell it as his own record without telling you.
Now if the sampled artist is cool with that..its a whole other story.
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deanlofts
Cubase Addict
ROFL @ The Rome and Troup example.
Xabiton
Cupcake God
the stigma comes from thinking its a waste of money to clear samples lol. I personally cant remember the last great hip hop album without any samples. Ive heard a few decent ones but nothing great or even classic. Maybe Jeezys first album I really liked that one.
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he probably had a relationship with the companies that cleared samples and let the labels do it. Lets keep in mind Kanye got signed to the Roc as a producer. He sold beats and got the money to put together College Dropout and the label eventually said ok this is hot lets push this and started helping him with it.
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Im not sure why people feel thats all sampling is. Is just looping up 10 seconds of a soul record and pretending you did this amazing song. There is a lot of art that comes with sampling if you do it right. But not everyone is just looping a song and calling it their own.
Aykey
The mother****in truth
With all respect for the art of sampling..but ppl barely "flip" a sample anymore...especially new-comers.
Unfortunately it seems like "chopping and screwing" won't lead you to commercial success anymore.
I'm cool with producers who take that 10 sec sample and do some hip hop with it...hell do whatever you feel like as long as you give credit (in any way) to this artist you just sampled.
If you're not willing to do this...you're just a thief in my eyes. I don't give a ****.
Xabiton
Cupcake God
a lot of people dont flip sh*t no more you are right. Thats why you don't hear a lot of great sampled records anymore. That and people are afraid of paying clearances. And year chopped and screwed is a style all its own but lets not pretend that chopping a record into your own idea is thievery in the slightest way. At what point does the record become a source of sounds vs a source of loops? If I gave most new producers a bunch of one shot sounds from a record and told them to make something with it very few would come back with something that sounded like the original record unless it was a super recognizable sound. Does that still make it stealing? What about drum sounds? Some of these companies pushing drum sounds online are just sampling drums from other songs where they are open and pushing them as their own. Whos the thief there? The person they sampled? or the person who probably is on Fp using the drum sounds illegally? My rant has nothing to do with commercial success but music itself at what point does it go from art to a business decision?
B
biggrome
Guest
Why is my name in this thread. I feel famous sometimes. People talk about me while I'm drinking Sprite, eating a tender roast sandwich and looking out of the window...
Only thing I find wrong with clearing a sample for $11,000 is... somebody else famous liking it and then going to clear the same sample and do the same beat and switch up the concept 2% and there goes my great idea.... jacked by Kanye West.
Only thing I find wrong with clearing a sample for $11,000 is... somebody else famous liking it and then going to clear the same sample and do the same beat and switch up the concept 2% and there goes my great idea.... jacked by Kanye West.
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GST
Imma rapper's producer!!!
my bad..first 2 names that came to my head that ppl would know..take it as a compliment I guess
T
tdubl
Guest
I don't think $11K is that much if you feel you have a hit on your hands. It ain't like people are trying to clear 3 or 4 tracks a week. You gotta trust your judgement at some point. It's still a business and you can't expect to get 100% profit all the time. You could argue that waiting on some label to believe in you enough to invest it for you is just as crazy. It's always easy to spend somebody else's money but, when it's yours people start pumping the brakes and gettin' all insecure and s***. Most of the people on this board have 2 or 3 times that invested in gear, cables, furniture, CPU's, keyboards, instruments, VST's etc... I don't see any difference.
Xabiton
Cupcake God
most people on this board have a bootlegged daw the cheapest midi controller and audio interface you can find with a bunch of bootleg vsts come on now
T
TechnikaL
Active member
That leads me to wonder, is it better to release a single to radio before clearing the sample? Does radio care about non-cleared samples?
j.troup
New member
The radio doesn't care (that i know of). But here's the thing...
If you service the song to radio before you clear the sample, and the song really starts to pick up steam, the owner of the copyright can sue you. Not only can they get actual and punitive damages, they can get your song pulled from radio, and any units on store shelves with the song on it, they can get pulled too.
So your ENTIRE movement can CEASE, in one moment. Overnight, your radio spins stop, your digital single sales stop, the digital album sales stop, and you have to trash the units that you've already paid to get pressed up.
So you stand to lose more than you gain.
The sample game isn't "try before you buy". If you have a strong record that has a sample in it, then the label (whoever the label is releasing the song, might just be YOU) needs to clear the sample.
You can pay 10,000 up front, or you can pay $150,000 later...which you won't have any album sales to pay with.
Clear the sample. Be guaranteed all the royalties from sales you're entitled to, not to mention the performance royalties, the sync royalties from placing the track in movies and commercials, etc, etc.
It's just good business.
HIGHJACK23
:: Destroying::
so thats why people make hits huh troup..to make up for the money spent on clearing samples? i cud imagine cause back in the day sampling was done like crazy....just listen to pete rocks work on " mecca and the soul brother "...imagine trying to clear that now...smh. Im wondering if i was to make an album like that or produce like that wud i have to worry bout making a hit in order to gain the money back and profit from all those samples I cleared
Cash_Daily
New member
What sample you using Troup?
Not that I want to use it. Just curious.
Not that I want to use it. Just curious.
j.troup
New member
Gotta remember, that the sampling laws that exist now, didn't exist back in the late 80's...sampling laws in any form didn't really come about until the early 90's.
By the time RZA and Pete Rock were doing their brand of sampling, you could use about 3 seconds of sampled audio without paying for it (someone correct me if i'm wrong). That's why RZA sped up his samples...so he could take more of the song.
Even more detailed sampling laws came about at the end of the 90's, and in the mid 2000's.
But as for right now, ANY sample you use in a song (even a millisecond) has to be cleared. Now how much that is enforced is debatable...but that's what the law says.
People try to make hit records to make money, regardless of if it's sampled or not. But when you have a sample in a song, that song/project already starts out in a hole, as you had to pay for the sample, in addition to the other costs in making the song. You also probably had to give up some ownership rights (copyright) in the song as well...so the song is gonna make less money than the equivalent song without the sample.
But a hit is a hit. And you can't place a number (well you can
) on the value a hit brings a career.---------- Post added at 12:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 AM ----------
I'm not altering the sample much. I'm using about 12 bars of the song, and looping it, and adding in other elements so that the song does what I need it to do.
I'll tell everyone what the sample is when the record is done and out there. I can't afford for someone to take the idea and run with it before I get it copyrighted, since at the moment it's an uncleared sample.
I'm not even ustreaming the making of the song.
G14 classified kinda stuff.