"Legendary MPC Swing"

mpc swing vs. software swing

The fact that a lot of software users are often referring to the mpc swing and are trying to emulate it (statements such as "software can achieve the same swing as an mpc"...etc) means that there must be something to it.

If software users want to achieve that sound thern why not just buy an mpc? I went from software to an mpc 2000xl recently, and i'm telling you my game has been raised already. I think the big diference as far as sound goes with the mpc vs. software though probably has more to do with something like sound processing or compression (i'm not really too sure?) rather than swing, which can be achieved with software, albeit with a much greater level of effort...imo.

I'm not hating on software though I used it for ages and still do for recording (logic) and sometimes if i want to compose (reason), and it has its advantages too (much cheaper than the equivalent hardware), but I think that for sampling you just can't beat hardware.
 
^^^Why dont Fantom and Motif users whine about needing MPC Swing or MPC sound?

Because we're all convinced software which is limitless is more inferior than it's hardware counterparts. As long as software users are insecure with what they use, they'll always want "Motif Refills", "Triton VSTis", "MPC Swing", "MV-8000" Drums.

When Software users figure out Programs Like Reason, Kontakt, Sampletank, Battery, Hypersonic, ect. are all equivalent to their hardware counterparts, these threads will vanish. But we live in an insecure world.

I've been told by enough people(major A&Rs, artists, ect, not friends who b.s. you)that they always know my beats the second they hear them because my drums and overall sound are so distinctive. I was told this since before I ever touched an MPC ans i was just told this yesterday. So I have my proof that my "swing" and "sound" comes from me, if yours doesn't come from you, put your faith in a magic box. Most people I hear swearing the MPC gives them a certain sound have wack drums anyway.

I bet timbo looks at his ASR everyday thinking "when I get some money I'm trading this thing in for an MPC so I can get some "swing" in my drums"....lol...FP has alot of lost people up here. Used to make me want to teach you better, but now there's so many producers running around, I'm glad you guys are lost in the dark. If you all knew what I knew, you'd be competition.
 
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Re:

Don't know whether that was supposed to be some sort of attack on my post, and forgive me if i've misunderstood you, but in the last line I said that HARDWARE samplers seem to be the way to go, aren't Motif's and Fantom's hardware samplers anymore?

I never said that the MPC was a "magic box" for swing, in fact I argued the opposite, or did you not read the post before replying? And why are we all convinced that software programs are inferior to their hardware counterparts? Are these beliefs completely unfounded?

I'm not ignorant to software, as stated above, and I have good experience in programs such as Reason, Kontakt, Sampletank, and Battery, amongst many others, so I know that the same results can be achieved using them.

Having said that, as I also stated above, it is far easier to get the sound you want from a hardware sampler. The only reason I chose the MPC as my example (aswell as it being the title of the thread) is that I haven't yet been fortunate enough to use either a Fantom, Motif or ASR. I wasn't trying to say that the MPC was a "magic box", I thought I made that clear, my apologies.

By the way, you said that your "swing" comes from you, do you never use quantization then?
 
indough said:
And why are we all convinced that software programs are inferior to their hardware counterparts? Are these beliefs completely unfounded?
Click to expand...

Yes completely unfounded. Who's convinced software is inferior anyway lol.
Producer (a) may be better off with an mpc, and producer (b) software.
There no best way to go. It depends entirely on the person.
 
Yeah I don't think that software is inferior either, personally I just find hardware easier to use, that doesn't mean i'm expecting it to make the music for me though. Obviously if you have an interest in music (or anything) and the determination to excel at it then it pretty much doesn't matter what you use, as long as you learn to use it well. I often use software when I make music and I think it complements the MPC well.
 
so...

I tried an MPC today. I really don't want to "battle" a lot more about this MPC vs soft thing, I just tell my experience.

So I tried, and I gotta say it HAS that warm and punchy sound. I DO NOT know how it comes from, but it's sound a lot better than a PC with average or a little better soundcard.

this is not placebo. maybe a good card have the same sound or even better, but now I'm sure that this sound is what's missing from my FL beats.
 
^^^^The problem is, only people who say that are guys who show how seperated from professional musicians they are with every post.

Straight said:
Mattman, the quantizing is ok, but it doesn't bring that hard drum presence. I'm not an engineeer, I can't tell you this exactly. But drums comes from MPC have a unique ambience or room or something like that.

listen to this
Click to expand...
Nuff Said.

Music's exsisted way before and will exsist way after the MPC. One of the most respected drumlayers in hip hop(timbo)uses an ASR(no MPC warmth punch or swing)....wonder how that works?

Long as you believe that's what you need to make music, that's what you need. But my MPC's right in front of me majority of the time and I've used it for the last 5-6 years. I'm not listening to this moose dribble.
 
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Straight said:
so...

I tried an MPC today. I really don't want to "battle" a lot more about this MPC vs soft thing, I just tell my experience.

So I tried, and I gotta say it HAS that warm and punchy sound. I DO NOT know how it comes from, but it's sound a lot better than a PC with average or a little better soundcard.

this is not placebo. maybe a good card have the same sound or even better, but now I'm sure that this sound is what's missing from my FL beats.
Click to expand...


Just wondering which MPC did you try out and did you use the same samples on the MPC as the samples you use on FL? Was the monitoring set-up the same? Were the monitoring conditions the same?
 
A guy over at gearslutz.com showed a test with the mpc3k, battery, and the source file.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-production/132102-mpc-vs-battery-sound.html

There was barely any audible differance.....The 3k actually lacked low end extension wich made the low/mids seem more prominant on the kick drum even though they werent.(You can see this by zooming in on the wave.)

That's aparently where all the "warmth" myths come from.
Real warmth would be an actual bloom in the low mids, not a lack of lows that only increases your perception of low/mids.

This may be releated to headroom differances between 16, and 24 bit, but I'm not qualified to stake a claim.
 
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I can see there not being not much of noticeable difference in terms of the sampler and sampling aspects among most of the 16bit spec'd equipment.

But one test I saw on MPC forums a while back showed that the 3K has noticeable timing differences compared to software. Which makes sense since the processors are alot older compared to computers today if anything the timing is off and less accurate but might even make up for expected human error in timing.

A dude I know who owned a 60 for a few months use to do tricks with it to throw off the timing cause the processor to glitch. He would overload sequencer with notes using the note repeat at a high tempo and I forgot the exact details of what he did but it would cause the MPC's sequencer to freeze and skip periodically and unpredictably (not sure if that offers any productive input to this thread but I just thought it was interesting and shows how the processors back then had more nuances and imperfections with the timing).
 
Tohtruck said:
Just wondering which MPC did you try out and did you use the same samples on the MPC as the samples you use on FL? Was the monitoring set-up the same? Were the monitoring conditions the same?
Click to expand...


the first time I noticed something is better with MPC beats I was listening to them on my PC with that cheap soundcard. I did my FL beats with the same. I felt like I can't achieve that warmth in FL (for 4 years).

now I tried an MPC500, with the basic soundsets (I have them on my PC). Monitoring system was better, but I'm not talkin' about that. It can't be that important, cuz I already noticed this on my speakers.
And I DID heard fruity beats on a really nice speaker set.


ANYWAY, don't try to tell me that you need highend monitoring system to hear music and swing.

Those very expensive stuffs are used to mixing and mastering, that's when you need them. Things I'm talkin' about mpc swing and sound and sh... can be heard on a simple walkman.


And I have TONS of samples, do you guys really think that ALL of those sounds are wack and the one I heard on that 500 was the only good kit?
 
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I can make the exact same "swing" in FL sudio easily but I learned how to make beats with that progam so I understand it inside and out, I can also turn off the quantize on my sp-303 and get a great swing or live feel to a beat because it's programed live by a human. Finally, Digidesign licensed akai's quantize algorythms for Pro Tools. In my opinion mpc's are completely overpriced and overrated for a 20 year design that they still use to this day. Common it's not like akai is the only company that can figure out mathmatical formula for quantization, Besides all my favorite drum breaks are from humans not machine's mimicing them.
 
Fl swing

Here you go straight, I made this 2 years ago and since I use a mac now I can't load my other fl beats, so this is the closet I got on it.
 
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there's no difference in swing or any bull****. it's the exact same. i think i would know since i've been using FL for over a year and i'm familiar with the MPC though i'm definitely not as experienced with it as i am with FL. i don't see how you (Straight) would know since you said (i think) that you don't even own a MPC. if you think getting a MPC would make your beats have some magical change it won't happen. maybe the workflow change will help but there isn't some difference in sound that will make ur beats sound better. that's all in the sounds/samples u use and mixing.
here's a test.
which is made in FL, which is made with a MPC?
1) http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=503831&songID=5533069
2) http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=503831&songID=5458011
 
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bobsmitt said:
here's a test.
which is made in FL, which is made with a MPC?
1) http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=503831&songID=5533069
2) http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=503831&songID=5458011
Click to expand...

He guessed wrong with a 2 of my myspace beats, so even if he guess's wrong with these beats he likely won't be convinced.
Anyway your giving him a 50-50 chance of being right.
He could guess the right one without even listening.
Shoot him 4-6 beats, and see what he comes up with.
 
DisoBAYish : thanks for the beat, yeah it is really something like that

bobsmitt, Mattman04: I NEVER said that I can tell which beat made on mpc and which not. I said i feel like MPCs can do something that fruity can't. Even my friend's old synthetiser sounds a fat way that FL just can't.

I will be very happy if I don't have to buy an mpc for that sound I'm looking for. FL is my favourite.

when I went and tried that MPC, I hoped I end up sayin it's an overrated stuff for rich producers.

Anyway, I really don't give a sh about technical things as long as I hear what I hear. A lot of pro producers say that they don't like computer's sound, they may know what they're talking about.


Don't be mad I'm keep on tryin.
 
Nah, noboby's mad.
While I no longer own an mpc I don't regret buying one either.
I was in a learning stage, and heck you always are no matter how long you've been in this.
There's always something to learn.

If you get the money though your better off with some decent monitors, or nice bookshelf speakers with a flat frequency response.

Alot of people myself included have passed on monitors in favor of other equiptment because of what they call gear lust lol.
 
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yeah yeah there's always something to learn.. I just think that I'm experienced enough to listen to my ears (yeah maybe I'm not).

Just know that I really feel what you're saying, cuz I think it really had to be the same sound.

I could be convinced though.. for example if someone did the same (NOT WACK) drumbeat with the same sounds on MPC and FL, and show me.

I'm really here to learn not to tell you what's good and what's not.

And yeah maybe I'd fail a blind test again, but it's like I show you 5 acapellas (one'd be Justin Timberlake, another Busta Rhymes, Coolio, 2pac, Mary J Blige) and would say tell me which was recorded with Sony, Neumann, AKG, Brauner or AudioTechnica mics. Could you tell me? No, but that doesn't mean there's no difference.
 
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