Yamaha O2R: now interesting ?

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THM

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Should it be opportune to look for a 2nd hand Yamaha O2R right now ? As I see this is a very decent (and industry standard) 24bit digital mixer, I'd be interested in it (I'm still working with my analog Behringer Eurodesk MX 3282A mixer).
I see the 2nd hand price is between $2000 and $3500 (depending on version and number of expansion cards).

1. Does anybody know if there are other (newer) upcoming industry standard (or probably becoming industry standard) mixers which are more interesting (from Yamaha or other brands) ?

2. What are the pro's and contra's of the O2R mixers ?

3. Are there big or important differences inbetween the several versions ?

4. And how many (analog) 1/4" jack inputs are there on the basic standard version ? Will I need extra expansion cards to have e.g. a configuration for 32 jack inputs ?

5. Are the built-in fx any good ?

Thanks.
 
You might want to think long and hard about making a jump like that.

Do you currently record into your computer? The digital mixer doesn't give you much, it just becomes an overpriced digital patch bay. Most of your mixing and applying effects would still need to be done on the computer.

The converters on the yamaha are 20 bit, how good is your current sound card? You might be moving backwards in quality.

If you work on a computer you might want to consider a global controller like the Mackie Control or HUI.

But if you are certain you want a digital mixer also look at the Mackie D8, a little more money, well a lot more depending on all the options you add on. But it can operate like the HUI to control your computer software.

I haven't used any of these but I am getting tired of mixing with a mouse so I have been checking on all the possible options. I personally am leaning towards a global controller. I can mix with an actual mixer style and still keep all of my plugins.
 
THM said:
I see the 2nd hand price is between $2000 and $3500
Click to expand...

Dude, you've just bought the MOOG for a handsome price...you must have money to burn...:p
 
I was just asking if it would be interesting, 'cause I'm planning big changes here in my house - a new complete studio room with flawless acoustic optimization (and I reckon a new mixer to that ;) )... but it's not yet for today :p
I'd just want to be good informed before buying more stuff.

And thanks Tim20, I'll have a look at the Mackie D8...
 
Interesting, you put an analogue mixer at the top of your list. The Ghost does have 4 faders that can control a sequencer, and it looks like through MMC you might be able to control other functions depending on what recording software is being used.

I have spent quite a bit of time at a few forums where a lot of professional recording and mastering engineers hangout and there seems to be an ongoing debate over mixing in analogue or digital. A lot of them say it sounds better in analogue. As much as we all love this DAW world, a lot of the high end equipment is still analogue.

It seems their idea is to capture the audio with the best analogue equipment then convert it with high end converters to digital world and leave it there. At that point it might go back to analogue for mixing or just stay digital all the way to CD.

For me, I am trying to decide how I want to work. The Ghost would give me tremendous flexibility but it is expensive. And since I will be adding more outboard analogue effects shortly I need that flexibility.

Or I could scratch that idea. Then it would have to be digital and I just think these new prosumer mixers might have so-so converters and it would defeat what I am trying to do. So that leaves me with a choice of something like the Mackie Control.

For me the Yamaha's were just left out of what I am looking at. The Digidesign 24 is mainly for the ProTools group although I am pretty sure it will work in Sonar and others.

I am not sure about the Tascam.

Oh here is an interview with Bob Ludwig that has some interesting insights into the high end recording world.
http://www.musictap.net/Interviews/LudwigBobInterview.html

:cheers:
 
I can give a non technically detailed, limited opinion on a couple of these mixing consoles... the Mackie D8B and the Yamaha O2r V2.

I don't know how useful this will be, but I'll tell you what I know.

I have used the O2r and the D8B on a daily basis for several years each (although it has now been a couple of years since I have ysed either of them.)

Here are the few things I remember regarding my thoughts on these machines.

the O2r has better sounding effects (I especiallythink the phaser sounds fantastic) than the D8B (i thought the D8B's effects sounded like crap).

The overall sound quality of the D8B is "crisper" than the O2r.

The D8B has i nice monitor that shows lotsa info.



I have used both of these consoles in professional environments to record music that ended up in feature films, television and on records.

I occasionally had written tracks using the O2r or D8B and then wanted to do my "final mix" on a Euphonics console (that cost $hundreds of thousands of dollars$) which I also used regularly... and, in the end, I wound up using my original mix from the O2r or D8B because I thought it sounded better!


I now have a Sony DMX-R100 and it sounds great... 10,000% better than the O2r or D8B... but I don't like the sound of the mic-pre's...

...and I miss the sound of the O2r phaser!

:)
 
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But it should sound much better at about twice the price.:D

Hey it is great to get some opinions from a person who has actually used them.
 
Thanks for the input, guys. :cheers:

Tim20 said:
Interesting, you put an analogue mixer at the top of your list.
Click to expand...
I just wrote down some mixers considered as "industry standard" and I was curious about their pro/con ; I'll decide later (first saving some more $$ ;) ) which one I will take. Their particular order in the list here above wasn't meant to have any more (or less) importance...

I'll add the Sony DMX-R100 to my list, and try to find even more info on the web.

All further input here is very welcome of course !! :cheers:
 
If you are looking to buy a console for a home project studio (and you were looking at a $2-3000 price range), the sony is probably not the kind of thing you are looking for since it will run you in the $20,000 range and there are no built-in/on-board effects, etc.

And, by the way, I also know people who are making big-time records and doing all their mixes right in the computer... with no mixing console at all.
 
Tim / dvyce / whoever:

Well I think I'm going into the direction of the Mackie D8B - like you guys suggested. The Sony DMX-R100 is too far above my budget.

Is the Yamaha DM-2000 any good ? Better features and/or sound than the O2R ? any HUI control like the Mackie (also for Cubase ?) ?

And a dummie question concerning the Digidesign Control|24 and the Mackie D8B : is the control only working with ProTools ? or does it work with e.g. Cubase (as I work with Cubase 5.1) ? and what is exactly the HUI control ? Is it the interaction between mixer and sequensing/recording software (i.o.w. is it possible to control the (software) mixer pannel of ProTools (or Cubase) via the (hardware) faders of the Control|24 or D8B) ? I'm a little confused about that... :confused:
Am I right that the Mackie Control and the Mackie D8B can control a.o. ProTools ánd Cubase - while the Digidesign only controls ProTools environments ??


And together with that: if the control is only working with ProTools, I'd like to know if the transition from Cubase (which I can handle fairly) to ProTools is rather hard, or piece of cake.


Sorry guys; [brag brag on]I guess I know a lot about synths[/brag brag off :p ], but nevertheless I'm quite new into pro-mixing as you see... :p
 
I will tell what I know which may not be a lot.:D

The D8:

It is a digital mixer which you can add effects to via plug in boards. A lot of software is becoming available. I don't know how much integration/flexibility you will have between the D8 and Cubase (I am a Sonar abuser) and your best bet would be to talk directly to Makcie and Cubase.

Basically you would record into the D8 and then route it to the computer with something such as the ADAT I/O card. If I remember 1 card gives you 8 channels. That would be recorded into Cubase where you can add effects and then you can move it out to the mixer.

Now the question is can you control recording functions of Cubase with the D8? Adjust track volumes, etc too? It is designed to do that in ProTools and I think they are working towards that ability in the other software such as Cubase, Sonar, Nuendo, etc

The Mackie Control is a totally different animal. It looks like a mixer but it isn't. Think of it as taking your mixer on the computer screen and laying it out into a box on your desk. Through a midi connection it will control all of those functions. If you want to control more channels at a time then you have to either hit a button to get the next 8 channels or you just buy more extender type Mackie Controls. So it is just a midi controller for your recording software.

Using the Mackie Control you still have to record via your soundcard.

Before you make the jump if possible you should track down someone who sells them in your area to try it or someone who owns one.

There are some latency issues to deal with then working with digital mixers and at times will require some creative thinking to work around. But they aren't going to advertise those.:mad:

Go over to Sweetwater.com forums and ask some questions there too. They have a few people that actually use these things and the Sales Engineers will usually give some great advice.
 
Hi THM,
If you want to spend a lot of money in an already obsolete desk and get the most horrible reverb ever get the D8B
:D
seriously if you want all the nice features you have to buy extra cards, those cards are pricy and in my opinion you don't get enough analog inputs for your synths and stuff (not to say the d8b is a bad desk of couse, but as you can see I'm not a fan)

Yamaha's digital technology is way better and more affordable IMO, look into the DM1000 ($5 k), the 02R96, the 01X, or the O1V96

you can get a second hand TDM mix plus system and do everything in the computer like Dvyce said...

but I would also look into the Ghost, great desk for the price (a good analog desk today will be a good analog desk tomorrow :D), with digital is harder to keep up because everything changes every two years or so...
by the way, the Speck Xtra mix is a killer analog rack mounted mixer, it's not cheap but it is great, saves some space too
 
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MusikMan,

I couldn't agree with you more on the analogue desk, especially the Ghost. Every forum where I have been and people are using them they love it.

I for one am just a little sick of the digital software world. Upgrade,upgrade, send me more money. Of course we don't have to, but geez the quality is just now catching up.

I find more of a desire to start using high end outboard gear than software plugins that always come close and if you want it to be really close then just send us some more money and we will gladly give you an upgrade that will lower the workload on the your processor and improve the sound.

If I had it to do all over I would have not gone the DAW route and used a dedicated digital recorder of some sort and spent more on outboard gear. The DAW would be just an option to do some tinkering with the audio.

Well now if I can afford it all, I am moving up from an Alesis 32 to the Ghost. I need more flexibility. Then I will probably go with a MOTU 192 or Lucid converters. From there if Sonar doesn't work out in this configuration I am going to a dedicated hard disk.

I am fortunate, I guess LOL, to have an electronics background, so I am going to build my compressors. I can make LA2's for about 600 each and 1176's for about the same maybe a little less. I understand the Ghost preamps are really nice so I may not have to make any of those.

I like the hybrid approach and in the end I think it will be better.

Of course this is a large investment with little possibility, other than personal satisfaction for returns. I am moving to an area where I hope to pick up a little work doing this.

Well enough of me for now.
:cheers:
 
I could NEVER go back to using a "non-recallable-settings" console again... at least not as my main console that I use on a regular/daily basis.

Going back and forth between sessions would be nearly impossible... you never get the settings the same as you had them no matter how detailed your recall-sheets and session log are.
 
Thats why everyone needs to really think about this and decide what approach is best to them.

7000 for a great analogue vs 16000 plus for a great digital thats a lot of difference in fun tickets.

I don't do electronica music, its all rock, c/w, bluegrass. Not a great need for sounds panning all over the place, up and down, but if I need complex mixing I can still do that in Sonar and run it down to the mixer.

Personally I hate digital EQ, I think it sucks and I am using Waves, next best thing would probably be the Sony plugin. I can dial it in better and quicker on my cheap ass Alesis.
 
dvyce,
you have a point there, I get the impression that you have to have those features given the nature of your work, some guys are ok with an 8 bus desk being used as a monitoring device and let the computer do all the processing, that way you can recall everything, not the most sophisticated method I know, but it works if you are under a tight budget ...

I kind of like the hybrid approach Tim described earlier but of course a fully digital setup will work just fine, that being said I'm seriously considering getting a ghost for my studio
 
Listen I can totally see a need for a digital desk in some cases, but I have spent a lot of time cruising forums. Mainly because I can't get to the option of trying a lot of these desks.

Without a doubt, the overwhelming concinsous of the people who claim to own these things, is that the analogue will make everthing sound much better. Most of all it comes back to the summing buss in digital.

Almost all of them say get the Ghost and work in your resident DAW software and you will be glad of the flexibilty. If I spent time in one forum and they all said that then I would be hestitant. But so many of the fourums say, if you are going to expand go with the Ghost and enjoy the outcome, because there is nothing in between that can match up. You can still work in the resident program which for me is Sonar.


I am still several months away from ever doing that, but I am leaning that way.
:cheers:
 
I'm even more confused now, but thanks anyway. :confused:

I'll read and re-read this thread a few times; please if you have any more recommendations (or pro's/con's) let me know. Thank you very much for the input !! :cheers:
 
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