straight arm VS curved arm

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deejv

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hey guys, i'm sure this has been asked before. but i searched and just can't seem to find a thread on it. so my question is, can somebody tell me the pro's and con's to straight arms versus curved arms (not sure wats the right term, the one on technics). i have technics, so right now i'm spinning on the curved arms, but i'm just interested in seeing the difference . thanks fellas
 
Taken from my post on another board... I'm personally against Vestax's approach to marketing their straight-arm tables. There are a number of house (non-turntablist) DJ's that have experience accelerated record wear caused by the ASTS tonearm design.
---snip
Your Vestax straight-arm turntable *is* damaging your records. When Vestax rolled-out the ASTS tonearm design a few years ago, it was being marketed to the turntablist/hip hop segment.

The problem with their table lies in the fact that the cartridge has NO overhang. Think of the last non-DJ straight-arm table you used. Remember how the cartridge was angled a few degrees inward? Recall how it was fairly long? That's overhang. Most tonearms feature some degree of overhang. This creates an inward force (towards the spindle) that is mostly (90%) corrected by the anti-skating adjustment, which applies a force that counters the natural tendency of the tonearm to gravitate towards the spindle during record play. Try it with a blank record. The force is doubled and points AWAY from the spindle during backcueing and scratching, so turn antiskating to ZERO on your Technics when you scratch. An S-shaped arm and a straight-arm of the same logical length/overhang will perform similarly.

The Vestax arm is short, thus has no overhang. The cartridge is inline with the deliberately-short tonearm, but several issues stem from this.... This design totally reduces the lateral forces that need to be corrected via anti-skating on normal turntables. I don't even think the Vestax tables include an anti-skating dial. By shortening the tonearm, they eliminate the need. This helps the needle track wonderfully in scratching and back-cueing situations. However, for playing records (yes, your precious records), the Vestax system is no good. Having no overhang on that type of arm produces azimuth and phase errors between the left and right channels. This distortion is a result of the needle NOT being tangent to the record groove during play (meaning that it points in a different direction depending on it's position on the record). In fact, it changes depending on where you are on the record. At the beginning of the record, there will be increased wear on the inner groove of the vinyl. The needle will track perfectly halfway through the record, then the increased wear will shift to the outer groove during the latter half of the record. So, the distortion will shift from left to right during play. Yes, this fscks-up your records.

So, there's a huge tradeoff. You trade sound quality and record wear for better tracking with those straight-arm Vestax tables. This is of no concern for a scratch DJ, but is an issue if you value your vinyl. I hope this helps.
 
with a good set of needles and a pair of curved arm technics you can scratch just fine. look at all the dmc champions who did all that crazy **** with curvy arms. if you mix at all or have any records that are of value to you straight arm tables are not the best option. like the above poster said- record wear big time.
 
I disagree. My vinyl got torn to sh!t with my S shaped tonearm, and has had zero record wear with my Vestax.

:monkey:
 
dj /-/2o said:
I disagree. My vinyl got torn to sh!t with my S shaped tonearm, and has had zero record wear with my Vestax.

I'm still convinced that you set the techs up incorrectly. Besides you changed carts since then, right? Ewwhite is right, I don't think it's possible for the straight arm to burn records less than an s curved one (unless you set it up incorrectly).

-Gene
 
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Ok..
I just got a Stanton str8-80 for playing records and sampling with the digital out. (it has a straight tone arm).


If i am just casually playing records (not constantly) how soon will i notice wear in the viynl?

It's stupid that they would have a straight tone arm and digital out, if the straight tone arm reduces quality.... since the point of the digital out is supposed to be high quality for transfers/sampling.
Seems counter-productive.
 
nice responses fellas. i personally have no problem with my curved arm.

i skratch alot, so i guess i'm sorda on a win win. not risking the extreme wear of the record. while being able to skratch fine.

so the reason some dj's choose the straight arm over the S is cause it has better traking????
 
dj /-/2o said:
I disagree. My vinyl got torn to sh!t with my S shaped tonearm, and has had zero record wear with my Vestax.

:monkey:

no one can use 1 year old audiotechnica cartridges with 10 gram weights and complain about record wear
 
i agree. as a dj who doesnt scaratch nevert has and never will i hate the pdx's. they wear out your records like crazy and generally just suck to use.

i suppose everyone knows the story charlie may related to a magazine about sasha and the pdx2000's don't you???
 
dj /-/2o said:
I disagree. My vinyl got torn to sh!t with my S shaped tonearm, and has had zero record wear with my Vestax.

:monkey:


Technically an S-shaped arm wears vinyl a lot less then a straight one. It's up to you to set it up correctly.
 
ok..even besides getting new carts...

throwing out what happened with the technics..i still have no record wear with the vestax and dj craze needles....

i agree. as a dj who doesnt scaratch nevert has and never will i hate the pdx's. they wear out your records like crazy and generally just suck to use.

have you even owned or used them long enough to notice record wear?
it doesn't happen instantly....
 
yeah 8 hrs a night two nights a week for 9 weeks, it became obvious. finally they listened to me and put the technics back in. and all were grateful.
 
undercurrant!!

what's the story!!

you can't just drop a teaser like that!! it just ain't right:mad:
 
basically i really didnt like them. they behaved differently to what i was used to and what i was using elsewhere.

the dots are a real aid when key mixing. these dissapeared and i had a hard time getting used to not being able to use these to work out the exact speed the deck was playing at. then the platter felt different speeding up and slowing down. it just didnt feel "right" to me. then the pitch fader was vastly different and the units i had were "fidgetty".

after a month i started to get used to them, but i still wasnt happy or comfortable on them so i didnt play my best. they got replaced with 1200's when one night (a horror, horror evening) a fuse blew on one of them (all on its own) so we quickly grabbed a 1200 from my friends house not too far away, then later in the night the power blacked out for the whole night. then the next day apparently the other one wouldnt turn on (i wasnt present), the transformer was fried. the mixer's wall wart was also fried. the decks went back to the shop and some 1200's were re instated!!!!
 
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