kb420
Old School Old Head
When it comes to mimicking synths, which do you consider to be the superior technology?
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infradead
Active member
i'm going to say physical modeling.
it allows for a better sound through multiple octaves than sampling ala romplers to my ears. if the instruments are multi sampled that a whole other ball of wax.
it also lets you do more interesting things when making instruments the mixing and matching of various characteristics. i just like the idea better
it allows for a better sound through multiple octaves than sampling ala romplers to my ears. if the instruments are multi sampled that a whole other ball of wax.
it also lets you do more interesting things when making instruments the mixing and matching of various characteristics. i just like the idea better
Xabiton
Cupcake God
Its hard to mimic a synth with a sample. A sample always stays the same most synths are way more flexible than that.
kb420
Old School Old Head
I agree. It's pretty much a no brainer. Modeling is definitely the way to go.
J
JeanLukPigheart
Guest
Synths like Omnisphere and Alchemy clearly show, that using a hybrid approach gives you the best results.
Use quality multi-sample source + some fancy re-synthesis.
The Korg Z1 used to be the king of physical modelling 10 years ago.
Now Omnisphere/Alchemy can kill it in every aspect.
And before that, we had multi-samples in Romplers with high-end effects and filters (the Roland series, from JVs to XVs).
Re-synthesis will give you the best results, but so far, the processing power to do it on the fly was short.
Melodyne's DNA technology gives you a glimpse of what future re-synthesis engines will be capable of.
So I pick BOTH options and wait for some geek to come up with some sick re-synthesis algorithm(s). lol
Use quality multi-sample source + some fancy re-synthesis.
The Korg Z1 used to be the king of physical modelling 10 years ago.
Now Omnisphere/Alchemy can kill it in every aspect.
And before that, we had multi-samples in Romplers with high-end effects and filters (the Roland series, from JVs to XVs).
Re-synthesis will give you the best results, but so far, the processing power to do it on the fly was short.
Melodyne's DNA technology gives you a glimpse of what future re-synthesis engines will be capable of.
So I pick BOTH options and wait for some geek to come up with some sick re-synthesis algorithm(s). lol
C
chicitybeats
New member
It just Depends on what you trying to create, but as far as tech. goes i would have to go with Modeling
Sqito
輪唱する
Why would you want to mimic a synth in the first place?
Physical modelling is rather for emulating real sounds/instruments synthetically than synthesizers which are... well... synthetic anyway. lol
I don't really get this poll.
Physical modelling is rather for emulating real sounds/instruments synthetically than synthesizers which are... well... synthetic anyway. lol
I don't really get this poll.
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kb420
Old School Old Head
Not always. Physical modelling is also used to emulate true analog oscillators and filters. A lot of virtual instrument versions of classic synths have been accused of not being a true representation of the original. Sampling obviously has it's limitations and that's where physical modeling comes in. It's almost impossible to do realtime filter sweeps on a sample based version of an analog synth. Modeling will get a lot closer.
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dirtymike
Dirteezie - 4 Feezie
I'd say sampling but only because modelling take a gang of DSP \ Math power... You only need a fraction of that type of power to have a sampler mimic the dam thing for you...
notice the name drop "mimic"...
notice the name drop "mimic"...
Focused
Sound Designer/Educator
Excellent thread, I find modeling to be more expressive than sample based instruments. The load time for modeled instruments is also more appealing than sample based. Sample based instruments for keyboards tend to be more accurate to the "real thing", however for synths is a toss up because many sample based synths don't include accurately modeled filters.
neverenoughfunk
New member
i am not sure it really makes a difference...
if an individual finds a sound that fits the tune/song/beat/composition it makes no different where that sounds comes from (modeled or sampled)...
i think the vibe in which a sound is played is more important than the actual sound...
look at the steel drum/pans...
those are some horrible sounding instruments but played with the right vibe they sound great...
if an individual finds a sound that fits the tune/song/beat/composition it makes no different where that sounds comes from (modeled or sampled)...
i think the vibe in which a sound is played is more important than the actual sound...
look at the steel drum/pans...
those are some horrible sounding instruments but played with the right vibe they sound great...
C
ceetheproducer
Guest
wow
wow a real discusion that isnt about insulting each other for using a differnt daw for a change!
wel i love my synths but i feel synths or softsynths imataiting instruments via physical modeling just do not sound as plesant to the ears as the early 8 and 12 bit samplers, the akai mpc 60 and asr 10 just have a certant warmth that can not be imitaited, saying that, not many producers who sample are using vintage samplers most of us these days use hard or soft ware samplers that do not have an output characteristic sound that is specific to them.
to futher complicate this very intresting dicussion i personly would place high end sample bassed keyboard sounds which come included with much hard and software (or sample packs) in there own catogory because many of those sounds have been sampled in ways, and using equipment that is rare, very expensive or in some way not availavble to most musicans, were as sampling of instruments you own, your voice, old records and so on is really a seperate art in its self, and 'usally' results in a vastly differnt sound being produced.
my personal preferance is coventional samples when played via hardware such as the mpc 60 or asr10 or recorded via somthing with a little flavour of its own like say an old ribbon mic. This method usally produces a certant 'something' to a sound that i personaly like more then anything else in this world (apart from sex with my wife lol)
but that form of sampling is so very differnt from physical modeling its actually unfair to compair the 2 since 1 (old school sampling) offeres you a twisted (but plesant) version of the instrument and the other (physical modeling) offeres you somthing that can sound very like the instrument plus massive possiblitys to them tweak and twist that sound.
so if were talkin adavnced modern day sample packs or reason refills or kontact or sampletank specific sample files or wateva the format may be of the samples may be, with differnt samples in differnt volocity ranges on the same key and so on and so on (yawn,yawn, it all gets a bit technical) then i prefer physical modeling in regards to software but in regards to hardware physical modeling being 'not quite' as advanced hardware wise and the fact that a hardware keyboard that offers physical modeling of a large amount of and range of instruments that are physicaly modeled to the point you'd struggel to distinguish them from the real thing will cost you an arm and a leg id say that samples are still doin it in the hardware department, in regards to bang for your buck.
---------- Post added at 04:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:47 AM ----------
being of jamaican afo carribean herritage and having herd 'REAL' steel drums played well i disagree.
the steel/calipso drum is a great instrument.
the steel drum samples that came free with fl studio really did not sound like true streel drums and i dont know were the hell image line got those samples from?
(please fl fanboys dont attack me, with your usual 3 thousand replys insulting my mother and so on, im not attacking your daw or trying to make out its inferior, im just staiting a fact)
unfortinetly those fl studio steel drum samples were used on a soulja boy track and many people seem to belive this is what a steel drum sounds like, dj pain did a youtube vid on how to recreate the soulja boy track of which i cant renember the name lol and there were litery hundreds of producers thanking him for the steel drum sounds lol.
i fink its in everyones brains now that thats how steel drums sound.
but thats not what they sound like, in there most true form steel drums are meticulously made instruments with each part of the inner drum acousticly designed to produce a differnt sound.
a well made calipso drum played by a tallented musican in real life will sound amazing.
wow a real discusion that isnt about insulting each other for using a differnt daw for a change!
wel i love my synths but i feel synths or softsynths imataiting instruments via physical modeling just do not sound as plesant to the ears as the early 8 and 12 bit samplers, the akai mpc 60 and asr 10 just have a certant warmth that can not be imitaited, saying that, not many producers who sample are using vintage samplers most of us these days use hard or soft ware samplers that do not have an output characteristic sound that is specific to them.
to futher complicate this very intresting dicussion i personly would place high end sample bassed keyboard sounds which come included with much hard and software (or sample packs) in there own catogory because many of those sounds have been sampled in ways, and using equipment that is rare, very expensive or in some way not availavble to most musicans, were as sampling of instruments you own, your voice, old records and so on is really a seperate art in its self, and 'usally' results in a vastly differnt sound being produced.
my personal preferance is coventional samples when played via hardware such as the mpc 60 or asr10 or recorded via somthing with a little flavour of its own like say an old ribbon mic. This method usally produces a certant 'something' to a sound that i personaly like more then anything else in this world (apart from sex with my wife lol)
but that form of sampling is so very differnt from physical modeling its actually unfair to compair the 2 since 1 (old school sampling) offeres you a twisted (but plesant) version of the instrument and the other (physical modeling) offeres you somthing that can sound very like the instrument plus massive possiblitys to them tweak and twist that sound.
so if were talkin adavnced modern day sample packs or reason refills or kontact or sampletank specific sample files or wateva the format may be of the samples may be, with differnt samples in differnt volocity ranges on the same key and so on and so on (yawn,yawn, it all gets a bit technical) then i prefer physical modeling in regards to software but in regards to hardware physical modeling being 'not quite' as advanced hardware wise and the fact that a hardware keyboard that offers physical modeling of a large amount of and range of instruments that are physicaly modeled to the point you'd struggel to distinguish them from the real thing will cost you an arm and a leg id say that samples are still doin it in the hardware department, in regards to bang for your buck.
---------- Post added at 04:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:47 AM ----------
being of jamaican afo carribean herritage and having herd 'REAL' steel drums played well i disagree.
the steel/calipso drum is a great instrument.
the steel drum samples that came free with fl studio really did not sound like true streel drums and i dont know were the hell image line got those samples from?
(please fl fanboys dont attack me, with your usual 3 thousand replys insulting my mother and so on, im not attacking your daw or trying to make out its inferior, im just staiting a fact)
unfortinetly those fl studio steel drum samples were used on a soulja boy track and many people seem to belive this is what a steel drum sounds like, dj pain did a youtube vid on how to recreate the soulja boy track of which i cant renember the name lol and there were litery hundreds of producers thanking him for the steel drum sounds lol.
i fink its in everyones brains now that thats how steel drums sound.
but thats not what they sound like, in there most true form steel drums are meticulously made instruments with each part of the inner drum acousticly designed to produce a differnt sound.
a well made calipso drum played by a tallented musican in real life will sound amazing.