Riding The Master Fader

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Any engineers here done so? I was reading up on Dave Pensado and he said this is something he does to give a mix more dynamics. Mostly of the hook/chorus.

I did it a few minutes ago and the beat and with only a few dbs added it did make a difference +0.5 to +0.7. Im going to try with the master fader later on. He also said how he would have all the faders moving. Of course having a constant say reverb gets boring and isnt really all that. I do similar techniques to add more to a mix.

but back to the main question, any engineers do it? how does it work out for you? When would you suggest doing it?
 
Interesting... never thought of this. It sounds completely right. When you listen to live music, you have those extra dynamics in noise levels. Why not replicate it a little bit? Especially when you mention the instrument faders. I don't know why I haven't rode them a little bit when necessary.

Until now, the only master fader riding i've been brave enough to do has been for fade outs :)
 
Nice! Feels good to open the mind to more possibilities. lol Of course it all goes to Dave Pensado. One of his examples was speaking about live music. Typically compression and perhaps automation on the stereo buss but not the master with everything at once. I also read this method was used a lot of Pop records.

The post is on gearslutz.com under Dave Pensado thread. I forgot which exact post.
 
I never done it myself, but like CPhoenix said in live music you do have those extra dynamics.......so I would say experiment with it and see how it works for you. I don't think it is anything wrong to do it that way, plus Dave has a lot more awards on his shelf than I do..lol. I will have to try it out.
 
Yes, I do it and I suggested it to a member in a thread awhile back.

ETA: When I do it I do it two ways.

1. A boost exactly where the new section starts (a hook for example)

2. A gradual fade that boosts over time (starting two bars before it hits the peak of the fader ride)

The first should not be used for extreme changes in volume (my opinion) unless you really want to shock someone. The second can be used in extreme changes in volume, but you have to know when you're going to lower the master fader. You either come back down gradually or you do a fast fade as soon as the section is over (which can still leave the listenr disorientated.)
 
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Why would you ride the master fader??? Then your mix sounds really wonky... and off... that means any processing on the master fader is all but negated i.e. the settings for any compression etc. would also need to be constantly changed as you change the level of the master, even by a few dB... the only movement on the master fader should be fade in and fade out... plain and simple
 
Why would you ride the master fader??? Then your mix sounds really wonky... and off... that means any processing on the master fader is all but negated i.e. the settings for any compression etc.the settings for any compression etc. would also need to be constantly changed as you change the level of the master, even by a few dB... the only movement on the master fader should be fade in and fade out... plain and simple
Click to expand...

You don't ride it throughout the entire track (at least I don't) and you don't make extreme changes (at least I don't).

Heres more for anyone who wants to read up on the subject.

Riding the master fader - Gearslutz.com
Master fader rides¿ - Gearslutz.com (<--make sure to click this one and read the SOS link in the thread.)

In regards to compression, how your compressor reacts is also going to depend on the arrangement and whats going on at the time. So no matter what, even if you don't do any automation but are compressing the two buss, if your song isn't a straight loop it's going to hit the compressor in different ways.

Heres a link to a really good discussion (again for anyone who wants to read it) and it also offers tips on automation and compression on the two buss.

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/view...ays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&finish_rel=-10000


and heres another:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...25-how-do-you-make-dramatic-dynamics-mix.html
 
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Yeh i believe in it. Sometimes it adds extra appeal to the hook without many noticing that the volume was raised.
 
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I don't ride the master fader, and I rarely ever touch it.

But just a side note for anyone that wants to give it a shot: In Cubase, if you have a compressor or limiter in the last two plugin slots, those processors are POST-fader. That means that if your audio is being compressed by those processors, then riding the fader will have an impact on those processors. This is not necessarily an issue, but it will be if you are using heavy compression and/or limiting.

Placing a limiter will keep you from clipping but will present the above situation. You can place your limiter on any of the other insert slots and they will work PRE-fader. This means that the master fader will change the audio after compression/limiting, and you are only changing the level compressed audio and not affecting the amount of compression. You have to be careful to keep the master fader at 0 dbfs max, as anything over will clip if you are using heaving limiting that was already hitting -0 dbfs. You can always edit your automation. But it's something important to keep in mind during the process.

This applies to Cubase. Other DAW's may, or may not work in the same way.
 
No real reason not to as long as you have your mix gain structure in place. Obviously mixing into a limiter is going to change the grip of the limiter on your transients. (another reason not to mix into a limiter right there)

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
mastering dance music
 
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