mute groups? (open hihat)

[fn86]

i have heard about this before, in the manual for NI Battery amongst others.

they all write about mute groups and take an example with open hihats.

"is quick to set up mute groups etc as well, necessary for kits with open and closed hi hats."

i guess they are talking about the effect of a "half" / quickly closed open-hihat? like the one that's in dr.dre - stil d.r.e ? but can't this effect also be achieved by a simply amplitude envelope on the actual hihat-sound? i really wanna know what they mean with the use of mute groups and open hihats, so can some1 please explain? im using battery if somewanna wanna give a reference to an actual application

 

[Sqito]

on a real drumset when you hit an open hihat, you get a sound with a long decay.
if you now close the hihats (with the pedal of course ), you hear the hihats closing + the sound of the before hit abruptly stops.

this is what mute groups are for. all samples in a mute group mute any other playing sample in the same group upon playback.

 

[fn86]

so what you're saying in other words is, when the open-hihat is closed abruptly like that, the drummre quits playing the other elements of the drumset?

 

[Morning_Star]

It breaks down like this. No one can play a open hat and a closed hat at the same time. So a mute group is used to mute the long open hat when the closed hat hits before the open one stops playing.

 

[fn86]

so its a lazy way to do it instead of removing the actual hihat-notes from the pattern during the duration of time that the open hihat plays?

 

[Sqito]

so what you're saying in other words is, when the open-hihat is closed abruptly like that, the drummre quits playing the other elements of the drumset?

of course not of the whole drumset. just the ones you specify in one mute group.

since you can have three different samples for just this one hihat:

1. hitting with the stick when the hihats are open,
2. hitting with the stick when the hihats are closed,
3. the sound of both hihats closing with the pedal,

its logical that they cannot occur at the same time.

 

[Sqito]

so its a lazy way to do it instead of removing the actual hihat-notes from the pattern during the duration of time that the open hihat plays?

drums are usually one-shot samples. meaning you trigger them once and they play as long as the sample goes. of course you can set envelopes to cut the sound by simply releasing a key, but that's actually not the way a drum works.

 

[fn86]

of course not of the whole drumset. just the ones you specify in one mute group.

since you can have three different samples for just this one hihat:

1. hitting with the stick when the hihats are open,
2. hitting with the stick when the hihats are closed,
3. the sound of both hihats closing with the pedal,

its logical that they cannot occur at the same time.

i guess this is the way to explain it in the view of real live drummer, and i understand it, but if we instead talk in terms of computer sequencing, would this be the equivalent:

1. hitting with the stick when the hihats are open,

a simple openhihat oneshot? the one that has a really long decay/sustain, or in other words "rings out" for quite a long time?

2. hitting with the stick when the hihats are closed,

a simple hihat sound? like the one you often play in 4th, 8th, 16th or 32th notes?

3. the sound of both hihats closing with the pedal,

the kind of hihat-effect that dre has before every snare-hit in still d.r.e, and the one you can achieve in a computer-based setup with choke-groups?

 

[Sqito]

never heard of choke-groups before. according to this one:

http://www.glaresoft.com/support/idrum_help/docs/ConceptChokeGroup.html

it seems like it's the term emagic/applelogic uses for mutegroups. in FL it's called cutgroups btw. (icould go on and start telling how the [mute-/choke-/]cutgroups in FL go a step further than usual, but this would get a lil' bit confusing now. )

basically you got it, yes.

 

[fn86]

okay, so the comparements i did with those 3 elements was correct?

 

[Morning_Star]

Yeah, but to really get the closing sound you need a third sample that sounds like that. But one played right after the other with adjustments in velocity will sound similar.

 

[fn86]

with a third sample you mean sample of an actual closing hihat?

you mean a open hihat that is envelope-modified followed quickly by a closed hihat?

 

[Morning_Star]

Does anyone know how to do this with the NN-XT in Reason.

 

[Sohail288]

Hmm...NNxt?? I dont know yet havent experimented, kinda away from things rite now, but im downrite positive, u can use redrums 8+9 exclusive for this.