[MIXING] Important Question About Using A limiter / clipping.

[Magical_]

When mixing a track, should I mix without a limiter first and mix quietly around -12 to -6db, before adding gain with a limiter?

ALSO;

I'm staring at my master volume output, (Current) without a limiter, should I be afraid if it's going over 0.00db a few times (red line) if I don't hear any distortion?

 

[Barfunkel]

Many people mix straight into a 2-bus mastering chain nowadays. It's not wrong per se (most things in music aren't), but it might lead into problems later when you take the limiter off and send the track to a real mastering engineer. It can sound quite different without the original limiter on and you might have to mix the track again.

So, probably wisest to be gentle with the limiter and not smash it completely, if you decide to use it at all.

 

[Magical_]

Thank you! could you explain a bit about 2-bus mastering chain? does that mean the mastering channel is connected to more than one bus? (2)?

 

[laurend]

I'm staring at my master volume output, (Current) without a limiter, should I be afraid if it's going over 0.00db a few times (red line) if I don't hear any distortion?

Red is bad. There's nothing in the digital domain after 0 dBFS. A clipped mix can't be saved at the mastering stage. It's definitively wrecked.
Mixing thru a limiter is OK to protect your speakers (and ears) as long as the gain reduction almost never occur.

Calibrating (Google Bob Katz, K-system) your monitoring is the best approach to getride of every level problems in your studio. It's a solid base to evaluate, analyse and correct levels.

 

[DarkRed]

When mixing a track, should I mix without a limiter first and mix quietly around -12 to -6db, before adding gain with a limiter?

ALSO;

I'm staring at my master volume output, (Current) without a limiter, should I be afraid if it's going over 0.00db a few times (red line) if I don't hear any distortion?

Yes, I think you should, because the short attack times can gradually morph into lower input track volume levels, so it becomes tight but dead. I think a better approach is to use max long attack time on the comps and then selectively shorten the attack time roughly towards 50% when you target the mix loudness level. The mastering engineer then has room to relax or tighten sounds from there during the maximization process. If you have limiters stuck inside of the mix, there is no way for the mastering engineer to relax them other than reducing the amount of attenuation or removing them, which is not the same thing.

It is also a good idea in my opinion to focus on the emotion during the mixing process by making it warm rather than hot, for instance ensure that you are far enough from clipping at each input output stage so that once you start taking the mix from warm to hot you don't have inherent noise that messes with the maximization process. It is also good to get a good sense of the emotion of the track before mastering in order to be able to notice when you lose too much emotion during mastering, which can happen when the soft and loud playing contrasts reduce below a certain threshold.

You should not trust the meters 100%, many meters do not have inter sample true peak capability, which means that eventhough the meter says it does not clip you have inter sample peaks that in fact clip and people don't like a lot of inter sample peak clipping noise all over a mix which is common among less pro mixes. Use a meter with inter sample true peak capability to validate the input and output signal level at all input output stages. True peak is true peak, so for the purpose of protecting the mix from clipping noise you should not lower the signal more unless you are doing it for some specific purpose such as leaving some additional room due to an mp3 encoding process.

Having no inter sample peak clipping noise anywhere in a mix is definitely a good first step towards a pro sounding mix. Using clippers at mastering is a bit different and depends highly on the input content. Having a mix with both inter sample clipping noise as well as noise from the clipper at mastering, is not beautiful...