Low End Frequencies take headroom space..so how do I give a mix more DR?

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So you've got an 808, a sub, or a bassline (DI or Synth) and these frequencies naturally take up a lot of space snoically. How do you give your mix more dynamic range?
 
You can not add dynamic range. It is determined by your bit depth. 24 bit has more points of dynamic range than 16 bit but you can get quantization noise from the conversion if you decide to convert your 24 bit recording to 16 bit. The best thing to do is use 808's sparingly and cut some sub frequencies from the 808.
 
epotts06 said:
You can not add dynamic range. It is determined by your bit depth. 24 bit has more points of dynamic range than 16 bit but you can get quantization noise from the conversion if you decide to convert your 24 bit recording to 16 bit. The best thing to do is use 808's sparingly and cut some sub frequencies from the 808.
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I try not to get trigger happy in the bass area and go with less most times a couple of hit of a sub bass in every bar or two spend it out in my arrangement so the 808 and my layered kick drums have room to breathe and I don't need to EQ carve a lot of frequencies while making the beats FL Studio(there always some tools used for creative reasons)
later I throw trackouts into in Cubase I do alot of precisse mixing


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So there is just no way to get more dynamics besides not using heavy low end frequncies often? If you have a lot of range between the softest and highest hit with all the other instruments then once you add that bass or 808 it just swallows everything. There is no way to keep those dynamics?
 
Sub can NOT have space, Think of the sounds that normally have the most space it tends to be the highs, and mids. think of a triangle cut the top off turn it upside down and that is how head space works. The sub is always like the root since it take up most heads pace its always the solid bottom end. If the soft and loud sounds get swallowed up sound like you mixing into a compressor or limiter.

Think about it, if you want your bass to sound solid and heavy which that is the point of sub bass then headroom for it is your enemy. cos then it not as solid as it could be.
 
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I like to carve out space for the bass to fit. I hi-pass everything that doesn't need the bass to be heard. Voice, guitars, pads, keys, anything. Just make sure to use your ear to where it sounds good in the mix. You'd be surprised that you may hi pass higher or lower than you'd think. Do it in the normal mix, NOT solo'd.
 
Firstly, Make sure your other Instruments all have a Low cut and the 808 has SPACE. Once thats finished try panning your instruments and making room for the 808 to sit in the center of the mix. If your DAW has an ADSR plugin, try decreasing the length of the 808, It might be to long, then finally analyze the room your listening to your mix in, and if possible... try listening in a professional studio. The answer to your question just might appear there! Good Luck!!
 
First, “dynamic range” is the correct term. But that’s not really your problem. Your problem is just simple balancing. Most new guys simply put way too much low end in their mixes. They crank the 808 and the subs and stuff well beyond what’s necessary. They tend to do this for two reasons. First, they are usually using not so great monitors and, far worse, they are in a crappy sounding room that is canceling out all kinds of low end frequencies. Second, they want their stuff to knock as hard as the records on the radio, but don’t yet have the skill to do that. So what do they do to make it knock? They turn it up. Anything will knock hard if you turn it up loud enough. The trick is to get it to do that when it’s not so loud. And that my friend, takes practice.

EDIT: I'm personally not a fan of the "high pass everything except bass and kick" approach. It works for some, but I've always hated that approach. I personally feel you shouldn't really need to do that.
 
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ObiK said:
I like to carve out space for the bass to fit. I hi-pass everything that doesn't need the bass to be heard. Voice, guitars, pads, keys, anything. Just make sure to use your ear to where it sounds good in the mix. You'd be surprised that you may hi pass higher or lower than you'd think. Do it in the normal mix, NOT solo'd.
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Totally agree w/ this. I only started doing this recently b/c I got real nervous about cutting the lows.. especially for voice lol. Didn't have enough balls to do it lol. Thought it sounded too thin compared to the original take.

... and then... local started to take over, and I did it. I was surprised how clean the vocals sound inside the mix, as opposed to standalone. Very sharp... got rid of a lot of mud. Same w/ other instruments.



In regards to the original question... do you mean you want more space between the 808 and the rest of the song? If so... I can tell you what I did on my last song. Worked pretty good. It has a strong bassline and drives the song along w/ some dance lead chords. I mixed it so that everything sounded clean and clear. In the mix... the bass isn't loud at all, but I gave it a bump at 60hz. However... after the bump, the bass was only reading -3 on the VU meter. MIxed the rest of the instruments so they don't clash w/ it. Then.... on the master out, that's where I made the bass really come through. I did some compression heavier than I normally do.. but because the song was actually mixed well this time, there's very little dynamic range, everything comes thru clean, and the bass is strong as all hell.

 
CPhoenix said:
Totally agree w/ this. I only started doing this recently b/c I got real nervous about cutting the lows.. especially for voice lol. Didn't have enough balls to do it lol. Thought it sounded too thin compared to the original take.

... and then... local started to take over, and I did it. I was surprised how clean the vocals sound inside the mix, as opposed to standalone. Very sharp... got rid of a lot of mud. Same w/ other instruments.



In regards to the original question... do you mean you want more space between the 808 and the rest of the song? If so... I can tell you what I did on my last song. Worked pretty good. It has a strong bassline and drives the song along w/ some dance lead chords. I mixed it so that everything sounded clean and clear. In the mix... the bass isn't loud at all, but I gave it a bump at 60hz. However... after the bump, the bass was only reading -3 on the VU meter. MIxed the rest of the instruments so they don't clash w/ it. Then.... on the master out, that's where I made the bass really come through. I did some compression heavier than I normally do.. but because the song was actually mixed well this time, there's very little dynamic range, everything comes thru clean, and the bass is strong as all hell.

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Yeah, I didn't want to do it at first either, but then after doing it on a few mixes I could easily hear the clarity and the bass increase. Its weird how taking away can add so much!
 
Well I don't crank up the bass as loud as I can because I don't mix that way. I just know that while that bass is muted everything is great and dandy. But once its brought into the mix that DR meter gets swallowed up. Its not that it sounds bad at all, it sounds great I'm just curious as to how to keep that dynamic range with and w/o the low end. Of course you can carve out the kick/bassline/808/synth so that it has its own space.

Turning it up or down doesn't do anything except bring the DR down (the entire meter). Like I said it sounds good and its not muddy or anything.

---------- Post added at 10:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 AM ----------

@Obik I mean that say you have -18db between the highest and lowest hit in the song. Once you add that low end that range shrinks to say -9db (in the red) vs in the green. I mix low and I'm not competing with tracks that are crushed and can't add anything to them. I would just like to know what others do to keep that DR.
 
You could use sidechain compression to reduce the volume of these bassy / subby parts when other parts are playing.

For example if the bass is interfering with your kick sound, use the kick to activate a compressor on the bassline to squash the volume for exactly as long as the kick sound plays. (Obviously apply this to any instruments / samples as you like).
 
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