Live from the Writer's Bench: Ghost Producing? What's really good?

McLovin Beatz

McLovin Beatz

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Yo yo, what it dew? Here is the latest episode of Live from the Writer's Bench. This week's topic...Ghost Producing. Check it out...


 
It's interesting that the single most important topic for us up and comin producers doesn't have a single response yet. I saw this posted on okayplayer and I was going to respond, and no one responded over there either. Anyways, I watched the whole thing and surprisingly it didn't feel that long. It felt like bein at the barbershop and sittin in on a conversation with folks about stuff you want to talk about anyway. The main point though is they made a lot of good points and you got to hear from the different perspectives. I figure, no one wants to really speak on it, because if they say what they really feel, the "majors" who watch might black ball them, or they don't want to look bad or insubordinate to their "superiors."

**** that. The music we listen to and sample and that is timeless is a result of the best musicians playing together. They were in the studios together, playing together to make something and they ALL got their name on it most of the time. If you don't believe me, go back through some of the records you sample, and look at the lists of all the musicians who played on those records. Egos and excuses aside, there's no reason for all of the nonsense going on right now in regards to the issues of song credits. You know when you do work, and you know when you don't. Grab some weed, grab some drank, and make records with a handshake. Good vibes, relax!

Stop the ego I gotta get mine, and i don't care who i **** over to get it mentality. That's why the music all sounds the same. Or it lacks the life and character of music in the past. There's nothing wrong with competition, and we all wanna be at the top of our game, but everyone wanna be Jordan, but don't realize that there's five players on the court. Someone still has to pass, rebound, be able to hit the three, play defense. You know what I mean? Karl Malone may have scored a lot more points, but John Stockton is gonna be in the Hall of Fame right next to him for making all those passes.

Can you imagine Donald Sterling or Mark Cuban taking credit for the wins of their teams because they're the ones that pay the players? I pay their salary and give them the big contract therefore I get ALL the credit for every dunk, every shot, every pass, every steal, every rebound. All that is me because I paid for it. (ie the position the term producer has taken on these days)

music's a team game. pass the ball.
 
Me too. I watched it. I'm just saying, granted the post hasn't been on here that long, this exact same video was posted on the okayplayer board. And no one really responded there either, and they gave a run around answer. But look at all the posts that get responses. We have posts on why DJ Mustard is corny, the same top 5 producer posts, a post dedicated to thoughts on Young Thug, and everyone's quick to respond and go through the typical hate, no hate "opinion-ating," however the responses on what should be the most visited, read, and discussed issue concerning all of us has gone ignored (on okayplayer.)

But instead of me complaining about why no one's responding, past it being a "good convo." What are your thoughts on ghost production? Who of the people that were talking do you agree with most and why?
 
tReHoLLa said:
Me too. I watched it. I'm just saying, granted the post hasn't been on here that long, this exact same video was posted on the okayplayer board. And no one really responded there either, and they gave a run around answer. But look at all the posts that get responses. We have posts on why DJ Mustard is corny, the same top 5 producer posts, a post dedicated to thoughts on Young Thug, and everyone's quick to respond and go through the typical hate, no hate "opinion-ating," however the responses on what should be the most visited, read, and discussed issue concerning all of us has gone ignored (on okayplayer.)

But instead of me complaining about why no one's responding, past it being a "good convo." What are your thoughts on ghost production? Who of the people that were talking do you agree with most and why?
Click to expand...

I agree with Kil when he said the shit is like a Fraternity. I've always thought that in becoming a mainstream producer, you had to get phukked over as a newbie on your first couple of runs.

As far as ghosting, I guess its never going away. I had hella respect for Mike Will, then I started to frequent this forum, and came into the understanding that the Eardrummers are the ghosts in Mike's machine. They got a partnership going so for them, it works. I'm not really mad at it.
 
I almost had to stop listening because they're not being entirely accurate. For example, A lot of times, Quincy Jones didn't write a whole lot of shit. He also didn't play every instrument on tracks. Matter of fact, by the time niggas got to Thriller, he wasn't playing any of the instruments. On Man In The Mirror, he didn't play a part in any of that track Siedah Garrett and Glen Ballard wrote the song. He heard the song and told them to get the track ready and he came and added little sprinkles here and there and basically told everybody what to do to bring the shit to the next level. I get what they're trying to say, and ghost production definitely exists, but niggas need to get their facts 100% straight before they put shit like this out and start saying people's names.
 
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"Man in the Mirror"

Written and composed by Siedah Garrett and Glen Ballard
Produced by Quincy Jones
Co-Produced by Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson: Solo & background vocals
Featuring Siedah Garrett, The Winans and The Andrae Crouch Choir
Ollie E. Brown: Clap
Dann Huff: Guitar
Greg Phillinganes: Keyboards
Glen Ballard, Randy Kerber: Synthesizers
Siedah Garrett: Background vocals
The Winans: Carvin, Marvin, Michael and Ronald Winans
Andrae Crouch and his Choir: Sandra Crouch, Maxi Anderson, Rose Banks, Geary Faggett, Vonciele Faggett, Andrew Gouche, Linda Green, Pattie Howard, Jean Johnson, Perry Morgan, Alfie Silas, Roberto Noriega
Rhythm arrangement by Glen Ballard and Quincy Jones
Synthesizer arrangement by Glen Ballard, Quincy Jones and Jerry Hey
Vocal arrangement by Andrae Crouch
 
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Man, i don't know but I guess I'm too honest. I just couldn't call something that i didn't do, mine! I would be lying to myself, Imagine a fan coming up and saying "man that shit you produced was dope"
 
What they were saying about Quincy is unlike Puffy and Dre who do not compose or play an instrument, Quincy can actually compose and play an instrument. The facts are that he didn't always but at least he did at one point. Did anyone take someone like Puffy or Irv Gotti serious as producers or did we always know that they were ghost produced? Unlike being a Hip-Hop "producer" in the '90s and being a Hip-Hop producer today, you actually have to know how to play a little. Back then, it was always about sampling. Now, because of the sampling laws, you have to actually play chords. This explains why not only lyrically but production-wise, Hip-Hop isn't what it used to be. To be honest, most of the "Super Producers" in Hip-Hop are either ghost produced or have musicians play all the parts for them and they just executive produce.
 
youngregin said:
I almost had to stop listening because they're not being entirely accurate. For example, A lot of times, Quincy Jones didn't write a whole lot of shit. He also didn't play every instrument on tracks. Matter of fact, by the time niggas got to Thriller, he wasn't playing any of the instruments. On Man In The Mirror, he didn't play a part in any of that track Siedah Garrett and Glen Ballard wrote the song. He heard the song and told them to get the track ready and he came and added little sprinkles here and there and basically told everybody what to do to bring the shit to the next level. I get what they're trying to say, and ghost production definitely exists, but niggas need to get their facts 100% straight before they put shit like this out and start saying people's names.
Click to expand...

that's what producers do ...that's the difference between beatmaker and producer
you run the whole show from budget to who writes and plays instruments,who records,mix,and master
you run the schedule as well
the producer has a tons of things to do...
 
youngregin said:
I almost had to stop listening because they're not being entirely accurate. For example, A lot of times, Quincy Jones didn't write a whole lot of shit. He also didn't play every instrument on tracks. Matter of fact, by the time niggas got to Thriller, he wasn't playing any of the instruments. On Man In The Mirror, he didn't play a part in any of that track Siedah Garrett and Glen Ballard wrote the song. He heard the song and told them to get the track ready and he came and added little sprinkles here and there and basically told everybody what to do to bring the shit to the next level. I get what they're trying to say, and ghost production definitely exists, but niggas need to get their facts 100% straight before they put shit like this out and start saying people's names.
Click to expand...

I noticed that too, but in the early 70s (and before) Q did the arrangements which ain't that easy, he just took nice tunes added the baddest cats, and did his q thing. You're right most of Q's pop success was a lot of co-cats.
What he did to Herbie's bedtime story still blows me away. I mean what he did with the strings and vocals. Sh__t

 
Yea i try in watch the writers when i see the notifs n my inbox...
I didnt catch this one... but will watch now
I think it is a great convo piece...
-just like dude said earlier with the reference to barbershop talk....

As for my thoughts on it...
It is what it is...
I mean if we have a partnership ( my name included)...
- then im fine...
But ive herd stories of of ppl get'n dick'd by jane... and we all kno the dre rumors...
But i herd n interview some weeks ago where hitboy said polo da don had him sending beats for months b4 anyone knew him...

Wich leads me to wonder.. have we herd hit b4 we knew of him...
-did polo use or "sample" him n sale to someone else...??
How many times...??

Should i just get a "team" to make my beats....and throw spaced_out productions on every track...
- would this lead me to quicker success and longevity ...
- i mean i can never not be creative if im feeding off of others creativity...
- is this how producers stay around so long...??
b/c alchemist should be clinically insane by now...
- or atleast be a vegatable who hears n sees sound waves and can only utter dru patterns...lls

Edit the hit interview...
-5:50 into it
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIotjxJXzYc
 
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fataltone said:
that's what producers do ...that's the difference between beatmaker and producer
you run the whole show from budget to who writes and plays instruments,who records,mix,and master
you run the schedule as well
the producer has a tons of things to do...
Click to expand...

That's my point. Folks like Quincy Jones, Dr. Dre, Puff and Irv Gotti DO a lot to bring those songs, and in turn, the overall projects, to fruition, so they have every right to be credited as producers on those songs and projects. It's not always about who picked up the instruments or ended up with carpel tunnel from years of banging on MPC pads...
 
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