Increasing RMS and Compression Questions

[dannydawiz]

Hello everyone. I have a question regarding how to increase the RMS of a track. In the genre of music I create I analyzed a hit track using a level meter and noticed that the RMS was at about -7db. My track on the other hand lies at around -13db and I definitely can't limit it any more or else it's going to start distorting.

To test whether using compression could bring the RMS closer to the peak I created a simple kick drum and analyzed its levels using the level meter in Logic Pro. I measured the uncompressed levels vs the compressed levels and I noticed that using compression on an instrument is capable of increasing its RMS.

Are there any other ways you guys know of that is capable of increasing the RMS of a track or instrument?

One question that has been bugging me lately is whether dynamics exist vertically versus horizontally. I understand that a track can get louder or softer over time. However is it possible for there to be dynamics on for example one kick drum hit?

Let's say that I had a kick drum peaking at 0db with an rms of -12db. If I were to add compression and bring that rms up to -10db then wouldn't this imply that I just decreased the dynamics of the kick in a vertical timespan?

 

[bandcoach]

answering your last question only: yes, the whole point of a compressor is to reduce dynamic range, at least in terms of signals above the threshold. Add makeup gain - not a necessity but lots of folks do it any way and you get the classic "maintain the blast and increase the RMS/average level "syndrome you refer to

as for the rest of your questions, the way you have phrased them is confusing but based on your last question, I assume that you are asking "how do I raise the average level without changing my other compressor settings?": answer: you can't

how do you raise your average level: by changing

• your threshold,
• your compression ratio and
• your makeup gain settings

i.e. all three aspects must be utilised to effect the changes you are seeking to make

 

[dannydawiz]

answering your last question only: yes, the whole point of a compressor is to reduce dynamic range, at least in terms of signals above the threshold. Add makeup gain - not a necessity but lots of folks do it any way and you get the classic "maintain the blast and increase the RMS/average level "syndrome you refer to

as for the rest of your questions, the way you have phrased them is confusing but based on your last question, I assume that you are asking "how do I raise the average level without changing my other compressor settings?": answer: you can't

how do you raise your average level: by changing

• your threshold,
  your threshold, your compression ratio and
  your threshold, your makeup gain settings

i.e. all three aspects must be utilised to effect the changes you are seeking to make

Hey thanks a lot band coach for giving me an in depth explanation. I never thought of compression in a vertical manner. I've only thought about it horizontally in the sense that if there was an instrument playing that sounded to loud on bar 3 versus bar 1 then it would bring it down in order to make it more uniform. The only time when I would think about compression vertically would be in regards to how it would shape the sound by using the attack and release settings. Never did I actually consider the dynamics in that way.

This gives me a lot to build off of.

Does this mean that the only possible way to increase the RMS to peak ratio is by using compression? This must be the reason why the master on my tracks don't sound as commercially loud as others. I'm ashamed to admit that I STILL have trouble applying compression. It's something that I'm definitely going to make more of an effort on now that I know it just may be the key to reaching a higher RMS level on the master.

I tried limiting but you can only get so far until you reach a point where the sound begins to distort.

 

[Waltz Mastering]

Hello everyone. I have a question regarding how to increase the RMS of a track. In the genre of music I create I analyzed a hit track using a level meter and noticed that the RMS was at about -7db. My track on the other hand lies at around -13db and I definitely can't limit it any more or else it's going to start distorting.

It sounds like you are asking why your track doesn't sound on the same level as a commercial track that you are comparing it too?

There is a lot involved with learning every aspect of music production or record making process. A good part of the answer that you are looking for has to do with mastering. Slightly adjusting the frequency balance of your mix with out losing the leading edge or transient punch to get the music to translate on many systems..

There's no one easy answer to learning how to master or mix for that matter.
Either would take the process of studying how to do it and using the right tools and developing critical listening skills.

For mastering, full range speakers in a tuned room will help you really hear what the mix needs. If your mix is near perfect then you won't need much eq, but mostly level which can come by way of having good converters and analog chain and being able to hear how it's best to gain stage your mix to get it in the ballpark for loudness while doing the least amount of damage.

There's some good info in these mastering podcast which can help understand how to master:
Square Cad: The Mastering Podcast - Latest Episode
I would also not concentrate on rms numbers because they tell very little about perceived loudness. You can have 2 pieces with the same rms that can sound vastly different in loudness. Ears are the best judge for this. Not a lot of gain reduction goes on when dealing with compression in the typical master and when using compression in mastering a good place to start with compression settings are ratios of 1.5:1 - 2:1 etc, long attack and fast release.. gl

 

[dannydawiz]

It sounds like you are asking why your track doesn't sound on the same level as a commercial track that you are comparing it too?

There is a lot involved with learning every aspect of music production or record making process. A good part of the answer that you are looking for has to do with mastering. Slightly adjusting the frequency balance of your mix with out losing the leading edge or transient punch to get the music to translate on many systems..

There's no one easy answer to learning how to master or mix for that matter.
Either would take the process of studying how to do it and using the right tools and developing critical listening skills.

For mastering, full range speakers in a tuned room will help you really hear what the mix needs. If your mix is near perfect then you won't need much eq, but mostly level which can come by way of having good converters and analog chain and being able to hear how it's best to gain stage your mix to get it in the ballpark for loudness while doing the least amount of damage.

There's some good info in these mastering podcast which can help understand how to master:
Square Cad: The Mastering Podcast - Latest Episode
I would also not concentrate on rms numbers because they tell very little about perceived loudness. You can have 2 pieces with the same rms that can sound vastly different in loudness. Ears are the best judge for this. Not a lot of gain reduction goes on when dealing with compression in the typical master and when using compression in mastering a good place to start with compression settings are ratios of 1.5:1 - 2:1 etc, long attack and fast release.. gl

Hey thanks a lot for your sending me that podcast! I'll be sure to give it a listen as soon as I get back from school today.

What you say about about their being a difference between rms and perceived loudness is definitely true. To experiment I put a limiter on a track with some slight filter automation going on. The track starts off with no highs and as it begins to progress the filter opens up.

What I noticed is that even though the tracks maintained the same peak, the perceived loudness was definitely louder when the highs came into the track. I didn't actually check whether the RMS values were different but either way the same concept applies that the highs are definitely perceived as louder than the lows and kids.

Ill be sure to use your guidelines for the compression settings on the master. I've used compression before on the master track to tame the dynamics but as I've said earlier I still struggle when it comes to using it on anything regarding the mix. I work with mostly midi and as you can guess these don't have nearly as many dynamics as recording live instruments. The exception would be vocals which I've only recently began recording lately.
Pretty soon I'm going to get my guitar fixed and I'll be using it to experiment with compression and see whether I can finally learn more about it.

Thanks again for replying!

 

[steffeeh]

Nowadays, a lot is prepared for loudness before it gets to that stage, especially in the mixing stage (and sometimes even in the recording/production stage).
So I'd recommend you to search and try to find info about what can be done.

 

[Waltz Mastering]

Hey thanks a lot for your sending me that podcast! I'll be sure to give it a listen as soon as I get back from school today.

What you say about about their being a difference between rms and perceived loudness is definitely true. To experiment I put a limiter on a track with some slight filter automation going on. The track starts off with no highs and as it begins to progress the filter opens up.

What I noticed is that even though the tracks maintained the same peak, the perceived loudness was definitely louder when the highs came into the track. I didn't actually check whether the RMS values were different but either way the same concept applies that the highs are definitely perceived as louder than the lows and kids.

Ill be sure to use your guidelines for the compression settings on the master. I've used compression before on the master track to tame the dynamics but as I've said earlier I still struggle when it comes to using it on anything regarding the mix. I work with mostly midi and as you can guess these don't have nearly as many dynamics as recording live instruments. The exception would be vocals which I've only recently began recording lately.
Pretty soon I'm going to get my guitar fixed and I'll be using it to experiment with compression and see whether I can finally learn more about it.

Thanks again for replying!

No problem. In addition ..or in tandem to the loss of high end, the leading edge or transients info can go south easily when trying to get a lot of gain. Preserving that (through proper gain staging) as well as a having a nice overall frequency balance are part of the keys to having a song cut and have fullness at the same time.

 

[BeatbyAS]

isn't -7db rms loud as **** ? my stuff usually hit -9 max, unless your average loudness is low. Dynamic is the difference between your lowest sound and highest,, so if you compress a kick to the max, you are simply putting the hi frequencies of that kick at the same level as the low frequencies of that kick. Which will be bad because the whole frequencies spectrum of your kick will be at the same level, which takes out movement, which takes out emotions, which takes out fans.

 

[bandcoach]

-7dbfs is about 1/5 the energy of 0dbfs, your -9dbfs is 1/9 the energy of 0dbfs

converting to spl in properly maintained k-20 metering system those values come out as 96dbspl and 94 dbspl...

 

[Orphan Collective]

Do you have any examples of your track?