j.troup
New member
Dude...you're speculating, living in Mamby Pamby Land, with no actual first hand experience...
If It Ain't About The Money: Does Hip Hop Still Need Major Labels?
- Thread starter boombapdame
- Start date
Dude...you're speculating, living in Mamby Pamby Land, with no actual first hand experience...
Desire Inspires
New member
Going the major route isn't the only way to go. But is provides the most opportunities to make the most money.
It is similar to selling exclusive fashion in a small mom-and-pop shop and having it in large retail stores like Nordstroms and Macys. The quality of the clothing in the small shop is probably the same or maybe better than the clothes in the large retail shops. But more than likely, the clothes in the retail shops will generate more revenue.
Some people choose to remain smaller and independent to control the experience. Some choose to become a part of the bigger entity and sell to more consumers.
Neither way is right or wrong.
It is similar to selling exclusive fashion in a small mom-and-pop shop and having it in large retail stores like Nordstroms and Macys. The quality of the clothing in the small shop is probably the same or maybe better than the clothes in the large retail shops. But more than likely, the clothes in the retail shops will generate more revenue.
Some people choose to remain smaller and independent to control the experience. Some choose to become a part of the bigger entity and sell to more consumers.
Neither way is right or wrong.
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yokuzin
Much Love. Peace!
True. I agree. Some people have lottery tickets hoping to hit the lottery........to be the next one of the 20 or so beneficiaries of the majors....as they do not need to be "hot".........because the MAJORS are going to open the doors for you.....even though you do not have music they believe in. And for them to believe in your music...it takes a MILLIONS of people to persuade them. Is it worth it if you are not shaping yourself in the like of those 20 or so beneficiaries? People do that and still fade. Still not wrong.....
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Legal Dollaz
New member
While its true the major labels give you the best chance of reaching "superstar" status, Hip Hop/R&B is becoming less and less a part of that equation (ex- sales down by 25 percent in 2014) which in turn means less and less resources/budgets will be allocated soon leaving room for only 2 to 4 acts/projects per year from our genre to have that "superstar" breakthrough success. For example putting the full court press for a Nicki Minaj Pinkprint project to barely squeeze a Gold album (yes I'm counting streams included) is NOT going to work if you have any understanding of how the label game operates. And lets exclude the pre-era acts that can still pop it off (ex - Eminem, Jay-Z, Lil Wayne) because they're on a victory lap to the sunset representing the end of a glorious past not the future.
So in this state of transition should Hip Hop focus its attention and energy on fighting for that very thin top layer that is being dominated more and more by bubblegum/pop and EDM acts OR should it focus on building its OWN INDUSTRY since the Internet allows direct to consumer access but requires a level of monetary investment, technological innovation and promo/marketing saavy (and some truly outstanding music and star power doesn't hurt) to cut through the "noise" ?
Do you raid the barn or do you start planting new crops?
So in this state of transition should Hip Hop focus its attention and energy on fighting for that very thin top layer that is being dominated more and more by bubblegum/pop and EDM acts OR should it focus on building its OWN INDUSTRY since the Internet allows direct to consumer access but requires a level of monetary investment, technological innovation and promo/marketing saavy (and some truly outstanding music and star power doesn't hurt) to cut through the "noise" ?
Do you raid the barn or do you start planting new crops?
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Just Clauz
New member
Working in the field is hard, lets raid the barn!!!
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I said the same thing about the old business model for the majors($15 physical cd's from actual albums, getting 100% of your tour and merchandise money ). At least artists bought homes back then on that model but today's model(99cents singles and 360 deals) aint too many homes gonna be purchased. I would have definitely signed with a major pre the 360 deal era. Technology has changed the industry forever and a good businessman must adapt with the times.
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j.troup
New member
And how's that working out for her?
What was the last Ashanti song on the radio? What's the last Ashanti Video that got played on TV? When was the last time you saw Ashanti make a late night television appearance (she's promoted 2-3 indie albums since her deal was up)?? When was the last time you saw Ashanti in a movie, TV show, play...ANYTHING??
Hows that indie thing working out for her?
In order to SELL records, people have to actually know you are still even putting out music.
I'm not on the majors bandwagon, by any means. But they do have a place, and they do have value.
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wildinout8
Moderator
Ashanti was just on a Lifetime movie over the holidays...don't judge - my girl loves them joints lol!
From reading these posts it seems a lot of people really are living in a fairy tale world and not listening to what J. Troup is saying because they either believe the lifestyles Young Thug is selling them, have no understanding of business and economics, or are still livin with mommy and daddy. YOU NEED A MAJOR and the only reason these people have national notoriety is because someone (a major) has the connections and capital to make it happen.
I hear people talking about how great the internet is and will make you a star, yet they can't even afford a Pro Soundcloud account...
I hear people talking about how great the internet is and will make you a star, yet see no video of your songs being performed on YouTube...
EVERY industry is like this and I'll use a simple example from Hollywood:
The Blair Witch Project was an indie movie (SC rapper with a mixtape) that a group of people here in Maryland made in 1999 for around $20,000 originally.
It played at Sundance (Ramshead Live), got good reviews and Artisan (a major label) decided to pick it up. They added some better sound work, reshoots, etc (re-recording the mixtape) making the budget now $600,000.
The movie was then released nationwide...with $100 million IN MARKETING and made $250 million. No one was seeing or caring about the Blair Witch Project if Artisan didn't drop that bank on marketing. This is the whole reason Sundance, Toronto Film Fest, Cannes and Tribeca even exist - a place where the majors can scoop up the indies and make them superstars.
[h=1]Macklemore Explains Why Not Being On A Label Helped Him Succeed[/h][h=3]from the looking-for-a-come-up dept[/h]Unless you've been totally under a pop-culture/music rock for the past few months, you've probably heard of Macklemore and his hit song (and video) Thrift Shop. Now at well over 200 million views, the song itself has been at the top of the charts and has sold over 4 million copies. In case you somehow have missed it, or in case you just want to watch it again, here's the video: The song itself was released last year, and built up a lot of buzz throughout the fall, but completely exploded at the beginning of this year. While I became aware of the song a while back, I didn't realize until recently that Macklemore is actually yet another story of a totally independent artist who found success not by signing with a label and having them throw a ton of money into promoting him, but by carving his own independent path (and using YouTube to connect with fans). In many ways, his story reminds me of Alex Day's.
A few weeks ago, Macklemore sat down with Chris Hardwick on the Nerdist podcast and it's great. Beyond some interesting discussions about sudden fame (and then doing laundry in the communal laundry room of your apartment building days after appearing on SNL), he does talk a little about being a successful musician without a label. Chris asks him about the no label part and mentions what a great story it is:
The whole episode is worth listening to as Macklemore has a great perspective on all of this, and it's interesting to hear him discuss the oddity of his sudden increase in fame and how he's dealing with it, without letting it go to his head. But considering how often we've had similar discussions about artists who choose to go independent, I thought some would enjoy that particular snippet especially.
A few weeks ago, Macklemore sat down with Chris Hardwick on the Nerdist podcast and it's great. Beyond some interesting discussions about sudden fame (and then doing laundry in the communal laundry room of your apartment building days after appearing on SNL), he does talk a little about being a successful musician without a label. Chris asks him about the no label part and mentions what a great story it is:
Chris: To see you and Ryan Lewis come out of Seattle just making stuff you like making, with no label, and oh you're at the top of the charts, and all these people are talking about the song... that's just a great story.
Macklemore: Yeah, I appreciate it. It is a very cool story. It's what you always hope for in terms of picking the independent path. It's cool to see that that's been a focal point. It's not just "Thrift Shop"; it's this kind of do-it-yourself attitude behind the music we've made -- that is also within the midst of this thrift shop song. That these two dudes chose to go independently, to turn down the labels. That the music industry is changing. That it's evolving. And to be at any sort of place where we're at the forefront of that, at the moment, is exciting.
Chris: It's so inspiring to so many young people who maybe -- and I think people are more and more used to the fact that they can just make stuff in their bedrooms and it can turn out to be huge. But every time it happens, it's that much more inspiring to a younger generation of people who go... 'there's no excuse any more to not go out and make stuff that you want.'
Macklemore: Absolutely. And that's what we watched people that came before us that have done it independently, whether it's Sub Pop, or whether it's... Mac Miller did it independently. And he had every major label hollering at him with huge seven figure offers and turned it down and still went number one on Billboard. There's examples of it that came before us, that had us say 'I think that it can work -- I'm not sure that it can work." But, at the end of the day, what's most important, and creative control is number one for Ryan and I. It's a no brainer.
Chris I'm sure you've been approached a million times at this point, but you still don't want the infrastructure of a label?
Macklemore: Yeah, there's no reason to do it. With the power of the internet and with the real personal relationship that you can have via social media with your fans... I mean everyone talks about MTV and the music industry, and how MTV doesn't play videos any more -- YouTube has obviously completely replaced that. It doesn't matter that MTV doesn't play videos. It matters that we have YouTube and that has been our greatest resource in terms of connecting, having our identity, creating a brand, showing the world who we are via YouTube. That has been our label. Labels will go in and spend a million dollar or hundreds of thousands of dollars and try to "brand" these artists and they have no idea how to do it. There's no authenticity. They're trying to follow a formula that's dead. And Ryan and I, out of anything, that we're good at making music, but we're great at branding. We're great at figuring out what our target audience is. How we're going to reach them and how we're going to do that in a way that's real and true to who we are as people. Because that's where the substance is. That's where the people actually feel the real connection.
And labels don't have that.
So you sign up for a label. There's not some magic button they're now going to push and it means that people are going to like who you are. Or that they're identify with your vision or your songs. It actually comes from sitting down, staring at a piece of paper for months or years on end, trying to figure out who you are as a person, and hoping that it comes through in the end. But a label's not going to do that for you.
Uh huh. Once again, it makes you wonder what people are thinking when they claim that YouTube is putting artists out of work. Macklemore: Yeah, I appreciate it. It is a very cool story. It's what you always hope for in terms of picking the independent path. It's cool to see that that's been a focal point. It's not just "Thrift Shop"; it's this kind of do-it-yourself attitude behind the music we've made -- that is also within the midst of this thrift shop song. That these two dudes chose to go independently, to turn down the labels. That the music industry is changing. That it's evolving. And to be at any sort of place where we're at the forefront of that, at the moment, is exciting.
Chris: It's so inspiring to so many young people who maybe -- and I think people are more and more used to the fact that they can just make stuff in their bedrooms and it can turn out to be huge. But every time it happens, it's that much more inspiring to a younger generation of people who go... 'there's no excuse any more to not go out and make stuff that you want.'
Macklemore: Absolutely. And that's what we watched people that came before us that have done it independently, whether it's Sub Pop, or whether it's... Mac Miller did it independently. And he had every major label hollering at him with huge seven figure offers and turned it down and still went number one on Billboard. There's examples of it that came before us, that had us say 'I think that it can work -- I'm not sure that it can work." But, at the end of the day, what's most important, and creative control is number one for Ryan and I. It's a no brainer.
Chris I'm sure you've been approached a million times at this point, but you still don't want the infrastructure of a label?
Macklemore: Yeah, there's no reason to do it. With the power of the internet and with the real personal relationship that you can have via social media with your fans... I mean everyone talks about MTV and the music industry, and how MTV doesn't play videos any more -- YouTube has obviously completely replaced that. It doesn't matter that MTV doesn't play videos. It matters that we have YouTube and that has been our greatest resource in terms of connecting, having our identity, creating a brand, showing the world who we are via YouTube. That has been our label. Labels will go in and spend a million dollar or hundreds of thousands of dollars and try to "brand" these artists and they have no idea how to do it. There's no authenticity. They're trying to follow a formula that's dead. And Ryan and I, out of anything, that we're good at making music, but we're great at branding. We're great at figuring out what our target audience is. How we're going to reach them and how we're going to do that in a way that's real and true to who we are as people. Because that's where the substance is. That's where the people actually feel the real connection.
And labels don't have that.
So you sign up for a label. There's not some magic button they're now going to push and it means that people are going to like who you are. Or that they're identify with your vision or your songs. It actually comes from sitting down, staring at a piece of paper for months or years on end, trying to figure out who you are as a person, and hoping that it comes through in the end. But a label's not going to do that for you.
The whole episode is worth listening to as Macklemore has a great perspective on all of this, and it's interesting to hear him discuss the oddity of his sudden increase in fame and how he's dealing with it, without letting it go to his head. But considering how often we've had similar discussions about artists who choose to go independent, I thought some would enjoy that particular snippet especially.
j.troup
New member
This is a brilliant case in point of exactly what I'm talking about.
Nobody knew who Macklemore was until he got with a major. That major is the reason why Thrift Shop was all over every Clear Channel station in the country. That Major is the only reason why he got as much press as he did, and that major is the only reason why he got those grammy nod's, etc.
And the funny thing is...THAT MAJOR knew that the "veil of independence" would be the only way Macklemore would succeed...and Macklemore knew it too.
That's why they are still telling that "independent" story. And people are still buying it.
I'll give you 3 guesses as to who that major is, and the first 2 don't count.
No, Macklemore isn't "signed" to a Major. But he absolutely has had a Major partner, who launched him into the stratosphere.
mwandishi
New member
Ya, there is a lot of indie fronting going on.
Logic said he had been rolling with Def Jam for years, b4 it was officially announced.
I don't believe the Mach indie fantasy either.
I believe he's been grinding and building his base, but . . .
u don't do those types of numbers and win a grammy without major support.
Logic said he had been rolling with Def Jam for years, b4 it was officially announced.
I don't believe the Mach indie fantasy either.
I believe he's been grinding and building his base, but . . .
u don't do those types of numbers and win a grammy without major support.
Legal Dollaz
New member
Outside of the superstar level of success there's not much of a difference in terms of monetary impact between signing to a major and signing to an indy (not DIY but a true independent operating business entity). Lecrae sold almost 90k first week and has done a total of about 250K sales total. Name another rapper in 2014 OUTSIDE of the superstar level to match or exceed that? In fact most of his peers can't even justify releasing an official album because the label knows it won't sell nada so they keep them on the club-chitlin run until their hit record runs it course and then kick them to the side for the next new hot act of the moment.