Dre's Vocal Compression Techniques - Good/Bad?

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After reading an article on how Dr. Dre tracks vocals for 50 Cent, I'm sort of surprised that his compression ratio is up as high as 7:1 with the threshold at 0 db. It seems almost as if the compressor is working as a limiter. Is this a common vocal ratio or does this probably only apply to the type of equipment that Dre is using?

Here's an excerpt from the article:

"We set the compression ratio around 7:1 and the threshold usually hovers at around 0. I set it at a medium attack and fast release. I'd say we're using around 3 or 4 dB of compression, sometimes up to 7 dB."
 
Here's a piece on 50 Cent's vocals...

"4 Hit Producers, 4 Hit Vocals"

This article originally appeared in the September 2003 issue of EQ

50 CENT

"In Da Club"

Producer: Dr. Dre

Engineer: Vito (Mauricio Iragorri)

"With 50, he's an artist with such an amazing voice," says Vito. "You just put him behind a microphone and it just sounds good! My job is make sure it doesn't distort and it's not overloading. While he's vibing and doing his thing, I'm scrambling to make sure nothing is going wrong with the signal path."

"Recording vocals with Dre is a meticulous process," Vito reveals. "There are some exceptions, like 50 is an exception. There are some people that just do it, and there's not much punching involved. And there are other people who need a lot of punching, and that means maybe a couple words at a time until all the rhythm and the pockets are correct. Dre has an amazing sense of rhythm. He hears all these crazy rhythms in the vocal and, because he's a rapper as well, he knows how it should be performed. As a producer he's great, but as a rapper he knows what pocket they should be hitting and he can really coach someone well. Working with Dre on vocals is cool because you get to see how he directs someone and they actually sound the best they've ever sounded."

Signal Path: Tracking

"I like my vocals to sound 'crystal,'" says Dre. "I use the Sony C800-G for vocals because it has a clean sound and about 85% of the people that get behind it sound great. My main objective is that the vocal sound is present and clean and ultimately does not distort. I get the sound I want out of the EQ on the SSL. We've used it forever and have made many hits on it, including 50's 'In Da Club.'"



"We come from the Sony C800-G and out of that into the Neve 1073 mic pre," explains Vito. "We don't use the EQ, because most of the time it sounds good flat. If there's a need for it we'll engage it, but for 50 Cent on 'In Da Club' we didn't use any EQ. Then we took it out of the Neve mic pre into the Avalon 737-SP compressor. It's a mic pre with EQ, and it actually has a compressor, but we're not using any of the mic pre on the Avalon - we're just going straight into the line input. From the output of the Neve it goes into the line input of the Avalon, which allows you to use the compressor alone. We set the compression ratio around 7:1 and the threshold usually hovers at around 0. I set it at a medium attack and fast release. I'd say we're using around 3 or 4 dB of compression, sometimes up to 7 dB. On 'In Da Club' it was about 4 or 5. Then it comes back into the SSL 4000 G with E modules (at Encore Studio) and we bring it back on the insert.

"There's a patch on the patch bay that says 'insert return,'" he continues, "and that's where we bring the vocal back into the insert return, because it's the shortest patch before you actually hear the vocal. It has the least amount of circuitry of anything in the channel, so you're bypassing the EQ, the dynamics. You could use it all, but if you really want the shortest, cleanest signal, that's the way to go. Then we bus it out to Pro Tools HD and we use the small fader to send it to PT. That's about it."

Discovery

"The way we came to this chain is - a while ago, when I first started out, I was assisting for Dr. Dre," says Vito. "I noticed how their engineer was doing it and it sounded good. The records sounded amazing, so when Dre hired me to engineer, I told him, 'Ya gotta buy some of these,' and he bought some 1073s. I had heard for a long time that they were really good mic pre's to run vocals through. At Encore, where I was assisting, they had one there, and anytime we were doing a session we would always run vocals through it. So when I saw Dre doing it, it was just cool seeing a rap guy using a 1073! That's how we came up with it. As for the compressor, it's just a good tube-sounding compressor. Sometimes we use the dbx 160 - the original - as an alternate compressor; it sounds good and we've used that on a lot of records."

Signal Path: Mixdown

The Yamaha SPX-1000 played a prominent role in mixdown. "We used a REV-5 room setting," says Vito. "There are a couple patches in there that sound really good. They're old reverbs and they're not the best nor most expensive, but they sound good, they're reliable, and that's all that matters! For R&B the Lexicon reverbs sound great. They work good for R&B, but for rap the SPX works good. We've used Lexicon's before too and they work okay. It's depends on the song and the artist and what you're looking for in the song. Like on Eve's stuff we used the SPX-1000, too."
 
I read that article, too, and after talking to tons of recording engineers it seems that a compression ratio of 7:1 is extreme. Typical compression rates for vocals are less than 4:1 (if any compression at all).
 
what does dr. dre use for software?? does he use software at all?
 
It's not that much of an issue when he's only reducing by around 3-4db. It is acting as more of a limiter, yeah.
 
I think it has been said before: Dre uses almost exclusively the Sony C800-G microphone. Its one of the few mics you can just put on a stand, leave it there, expect that it sounds good, and forget about the mic. I've seen many video clips of him recording and also P Diddy recording HipHop/Rap at BadBoy, and in every case the Sony mic was used. I'm not saying that its one of the best mics on the market (I for sure wouldn't wanna get it coz there's tons of other options), but for like $5k you can expect that it sounds decent, especially when used with a NEVE pre and an SSL concole.
 
It's acting as a limiter for the body of the vocal. He uses a medium attack time, and the 737s compressor is slow anyway, so it's letting through the transients of the vocal and raising the body. For this purpose, the 737 is a good piece of kit to use.

Raising the body of rap vocals 3-4 dB is no big deal, but I'd be careful trying to do it with different gear - you might get a very different result.
 
That compression ratio is what works w/ that signal chain-on that vocal-on that song. It is not really a limiter as technically limiting starts at above a 10:1 ratio. It is not uncommon to really squash something. You HAVE to have the ear to pull it off & the piece of gear that will impart a sound on the recording that is pleasing to you. For this reason, I don't usually use more extreme settings in plugin comps-only their hardware counterparts.


peace!
Scott Slagle
 
Don,t forget this isn,t mix compression ...its compression on the input path of the vocal at the tracking stage.
Compression for tracking is one thing and sitting that sound in the mix is a whole new ballgame.

Cheers.
Funk
 
dres comp

you shouldnt really worry bout what this person and that person uses for there setup, if dre is using a compression on the input chain of vocals with a ratio of 7:1 then try it , if it dont sound good then experiment. all i can say is DR and 50 are laughin 2 the bank, so whos to say there methods are bad ey ?


1
 
I always heard that the 737 compresson and eq weren't that good and the only thing that really stood out on the 737 was the preamp. So i find it intresting that they are using it only for the comp.
 
well sometimes i will use a compressor as a limiter on vocal takes but usually if im using a compressor i wanna use a compressor to chop off some dbs...From what I understand is many studios use the Sony mic because the studio is owned by Sony records...So it makes sense to use there own product and not to mention that mic is one I SAID ONE of the best...C12 will give it a nice run for its $$$ as well...but the compressor in the 737 is decent and I am really surprised they used it...I dont think it is that essential in the vocal chain...the sound is more from the mic and pre...
 
If they're getting compression with the threshold at 0, either they're leaning on a soft knee or purposely overloading the mic and neve, then bringing the signal back under 0dB with the Avalon. Hey, if it sounds good...
 
Yo that article on the engineer's like Mauricio Iragorri were can i find it on here?
 
asylumdigital said:
That compression ratio is what works w/ that signal chain-on that vocal-on that song. It is not really a limiter as technically limiting starts at above a 10:1 ratio. It is not uncommon to really squash something. You HAVE to have the ear to pull it off & the piece of gear that will impart a sound on the recording that is pleasing to you. For this reason, I don't usually use more extreme settings in plugin comps-only their hardware counterparts.


peace!
Scott Slagle


it doesnt matter if your at 10:1 or at 2:1, technically if you HEAR the compresser working, then it is LIMITING.
 
Might not be a lot of compression after all. I know they mention 3-4db GR which would be a lot but if those are spikes here and there it might not be much after all. With someone like 50 cent that has a very controlled vocal a medium attack and fast release also allows the compressor enough to shape the sound but not change it much. If they used fast attack settings you might hear the compressor clip the signal a bit and the compression might be more obvious.

If it works, and it works well, it's good. Numbers for gear can be deceiving. Not to mention that a compressor with its fast attack may sound almost like another compressor at medium attack. Some compressors are a little more loose, which is why some like some compressor types over others if they want a certain sound.
 
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