Combining Samples and Synth Sounds

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Combining Samples and Synth Sounds

By Sa'id

Combining synth sounds with standard vinyl samples is not particularly necessary, but certainly useful in some situations. Either way, however, if you do decide to do a synth-sample blend, remember this: when blending a synth sound with a sample, never forget that you are trying to match the synth to the sample, not the other way around. That being said, here are some other factors to consider when blending or combining synths with samples.
What’s the scope of your verse and hook sections (if there is one)? How different is your verse section from your hook section? What about the framework of your sequences. That is, what bar framework is your verse section based on? Is it a 2-bar, 4-bar, or 8-bar loop? What about the sample scheme you’re using? Are you using just one main sample that is heavily chopped? Are you using multiple samples woven together? Are you using a relatively unmodified break of 1 or more bars? Each one of these factors will better determine what sort of synth combination is likely to work with your samples.
I use a combo of synths and samples. But here's the catch: I never try to play a synth in the same key as the sample(s) I'm using. Whenever I add in synth sounds to a sample-based beat, I usually do so for one or two reasons: A.) to boost or “beef” up the sample, sort of like stacking synth sounds; and B.) to accentuate or emphasize a moment or element of the sample(s) I'm using.
In most cases of a sample-based beat, the sample itself contains multiple instruments, and thus for me, it becomes an issue of manipulating the pitch (higher or lower) of the particular synth sounds that I'm using. More specifically, it's an issue of manipulating the pitch of the synth sounds higher or lower than the pitch of the primary sample and the sample scheme that I'm using. For instance, if I'm working with a low-pitched sample (something with a bass tone), I usually try to offset its sound with some level of brightness. In cases like these, I'll add in some synth sounds. This contrast makes for a unique, unforced change and/or accent. Here, one thing I wanna point out is that matching the synth closely to the "feel" (not necessarily the key) of the sample, typically works better. Keep in mind that synth sounds (which are first generational) have a completely different sonic quality than samples from vinyl recordings. And thus, typcially, whenever the synth sound is made to match the key of the sample, what happens is that the synth sound winds up competing with--if not outright dominating--the sample. Thereby turning a sample-based beat into really a keyboard-based beat.
Now, here's how I combine samples and synths. Either I play a phrase(s) straight up (from my Roland Fantom Keyboard) and record it through MIDI into a sequence on my Akai MPC 4000, or I play a phrase(s), sample it, then assign the phrase(s) to one drum pad or more. Sampling the synth phrase(s) allows me more flexibility over the tone and timbre of the synth sound, because once it's sampled, I can filter it, compress it, add reverb, whatever it takes to match the feeling (not the pitch) of the sample and the overall beat. For those times where I sample the synth sound, I run my Fantom through my Akai S950 sampler or my MPC 4000, depending on the feel and sound of the main sample. If I want more clarity and a bit more brightness, I sample the synth phrase(s) with my MPC 4000. However, if I want a warmer, perhaps "thicker" sound, I sample the synth phrase(s) through my S950.
One more tip In cases where I'm using synth sounds for slight emphasis or slight accents and changes, I focus in on the softest (deadest) part of the sample, then I add in the synth sounds. And sometimes when I have a sample cut off right at the loop point of a sequence, I'll throw some light stacked synth sounds right at the point of where the end of the sample drops out.
 
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I use a combo of synths and samples. But here's the catch: I never try to play a synth in the same key as the sample(s) I'm using.

whenever the synth sound is made to match the key of the sample, what happens is that the synth sound winds up competing with--if not outright dominating--the sample.


this is stupid
he's telling us to compose in a completely different key??
 
T.V.B. said:
I use a combo of synths and samples. But here's the catch: I never try to play a synth in the same key as the sample(s) I'm using.

whenever the synth sound is made to match the key of the sample, what happens is that the synth sound winds up competing with--if not outright dominating--the sample.


this is stupid
he's telling us to compose in a completely different key??


Yea, that got me kinda "ogg'd" too. Maybe detune it a little bit but if you're gonna change the key of something thats playing over a different key, (as far as music theory has told me) thats just not gonna work out.

But someone is bound to come in here with some type of logical reason as to how this works.
 
umm...i think i knew this already...allow me to demonstrate!

let me know what y'all think!
 
dang P10 u got down on that track. can u tell me what sample that was so i can f$#@ with it?
 
@ BEATZKMT...that sample has been used more times than a tampon! LOL! it should be recognizable to you...but if not...then it's actually If Loving You is Wrong. no mo info! LOL!
 
T.V.B. said:
I use a combo of synths and samples. But here's the catch: I never try to play a synth in the same key as the sample(s) I'm using.

whenever the synth sound is made to match the key of the sample, what happens is that the synth sound winds up competing with--if not outright dominating--the sample.


this is stupid
he's telling us to compose in a completely different key??

Yes, that makes no sense ...

I think he means that the sample is the base you have to start from, and that you have to make your synth fits with the sample, not the opposite. Maybe he says that because of the change there has been in the frequencies of the scale throughout the years : a A note was 440 hz 25 years ago and now, it's around 443hz, so it can make a discomfort to the ear when you combine sounds of differents periods.

Or maybe what he says REALLY makes no sense ...
 
You have to forget music theory. Using music theory rules equates to wack beats.
 
Pretty sure tampons only get used once... Otherwise, gross.
 
The Beat Pharmacy said:
You have to forget music theory. Using music theory rules equates to wack beats.
I agree! Just re-read the article, what Sa'id is saying does make a lot of sense. He's not just talking about matching a sample in the same key. I think it's a given that if you want to match something in the same key, you play it in the same key. And Beat Pharmacy, the article you posted on here isn't the exact same one that's on the beattips site. I think I read part of that, and it was incomplete or unfinished, but here's the full article-- http://www.beattips.com/articles/2008/10/combining-sampl.html

I didn't get the feeling that the article was an attack on keyboards or music theory, or a one sided type of thing. He just gave hiz take on putting keys with samples. I kind of got away from sampling, but I've been slowly moving back towards that vibe.
 
what he is saying is that there are issues when sampling and synthing in the same key. The most notable issue being phasing.

There are a host of others.

The problem with his statement is that he says the samp and the syth "compete". This indicts his mix, and muddies his theory.

The issue he mentions is due to a sample coming from a different source than the synth. His issue revolves around noise floor for each (samp/synth), timbre, compression, reverb, panning and volume.

I do it all the time and I know the issue.
It's all in the mix.
 
Seattle1son said:
what he is saying is that there are issues when sampling and synthing in the same key. The most notable issue being phasing.

There are a host of others.

The problem with his statement is that he says the samp and the syth "compete". This indicts his mix, and muddies his theory.

The issue he mentions is due to a sample coming from a different source than the synth. His issue revolves around noise floor for each (samp/synth), timbre, compression, reverb, panning and volume.

I do it all the time and I know the issue.
It's all in the mix.
Seattle1son I disagree, I don't think that Sa'id is saying that this is simply a mix issue. You can make frequencies line up together and all that stuff, but that still doesn't mean that it's going to give off the right feeling. You're just going to have the levels coming up "correct." But damn, some sounds just don't go together, regardless if you mix them right. In the article, it seems to me what he's talking about more is matching up the "feel" of a sample with a synth. The best mix engineer in the world, with all the plug-ins in his arsenal can't always make two things have the same feel, if those two things just have rather different feels to begin with.

Also, as far as the sample and the synth competing, for the most part that ish is true. When you go and put keys over a sample, you wind up having to turn their level down, or turn the level of the sample up, or else the sample no longer stand outs. I think this is the issue that Sa'id is trying to deal with. I don't think that he's saying anything wrong. And if you do want the sample to stand out, why even keep it in there at that point, just go with the synth sound? Either way, his WHOLE article, not just pieces out of context, was interesting and it made sense to me.
 
this is mad interesting

so imma bump the hell out o it
 
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