How do i make "punchy" kicks?

elmcity

elmcity

FL Freak8
How do you suggest making kick drums punch thru the mix?
I have good quality drums and want them to be more punchy in mixes in relation to the other sounds.
thx
 
i'd suggest layering a lower frequency kick with a higher frequency kick and then equalizing and setting the levels so you got the sweet spot. Also a little bit of compression on both ill help bring them out. Too much comp will make them sond too flat, btw.
 
I agree. Use a para EQ to boost the low-ends and cut high-ends of the kicks. This is a good way if you're planning on layering the drums together so they do not interefere with each other.
 
Yes, compression. BUT don't rely on default Attack and Release times, or you'll end up with muddiness as the initial *hit* gets squashed and all the life taken out of it. You want the attack long enough to differentiate the hit from the tail of the sound as much as possible but short enough so the compressor actually gets a chance to act. Vice versa for the release.

I don't agree with Billy Le - simply boosting lows and cuttings highs does not equal punchy kicks. Better to broad-Q cut some mid and accentuate (high-Q) a bit of click (and/or tape a credit card to the head when recording live kicks).

See Sound On Sound Dec 06 (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec06/articles/benallen.htm) for the best explanation yet of terms for discussing bass sounds including kick tone.
 
Nobody ever listens, but for sh*t's and giggles, I'll tell you the ultimate answer. Get good drums to begin with, turn the kick up loud and everything else down until the kick is dominant. If you want your kicks more "punchy" Shorten the play length of them(instead of going Booooooooooom, they go boom)makes them smack the sh*t out of speakers.

Compression and EQ should rarely be applied to digitally recorded drum samples in libraries or on workstations. The people at Korg, Akai, Propellerheads, Sony, or wherever you get your drum kits from have already applied any needed effects, and I'm sure they know more about sound design than you do.
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
Nobody ever listens, but for sh*t's and giggles, I'll tell you the ultimate answer. Get good drums to begin with, turn the kick up loud and everything else down until the kick is dominant. If you want your kicks more "punchy" Shorten the play length of them(instead of going Booooooooooom, they go boom)makes them smack the sh*t out of speakers.

Compression and EQ should rarely be applied to digitally recorded drum samples in libraries or on workstations. The people at Korg, Akai, Propellerheads, Sony, or wherever you get your drum kits from have already applied any needed effects, and I'm sure they know more about sound design than you do.
Click to expand...

Have to disagree, I don't think simply shortening the decay of a kick sample is the answer. I agree that the samples duration needs consideration but you can end up with stubby samples which can sound a bit weird. Compression can squeeze out a sound, with a kick you can define the attack transient to pull it through the mix and keep the tail under control, therefore the duration of the samples amplitude isn't as full on or as dominating but you still retain the full sound albeit controlled dynamically. Obviously not to be confused with long booming 808 type kicks which have tails rolling into the next kick lol.

Getting good drums to begin with I absolutely agree with, a good source sound is always the right place to start and whilst there are some good libraries out there, it doesn't mean they automatically fit into place in a track, tweaking the tuning, playing with the envelopes and EQ & compression may still have to be used.

Anyways, besides good source samples, layering, EQ, compression and envelopes, obviously how you mix them comes into play. Creating room for the kick if you want it punching through has a lot to do with how you juggle it with the bass. Sitting the kick either above or below the bass rather than making them fight for the same frequenices and making sure all other instruments and sounds have sufficient lo cuts to actually create the room in the first place.
 
The 'punch' in a kick comes about because of the dynamic nature of the sound itself.. the initial impact and subsequent low end content.

Compression redues the dynamic range of any sound, therefore I doubt it can be attributing to REAL 'punch' in the final sound.

I think more than often, the generalisation that compression adds punch to drums comes from modern hip hop music and how everything is squeezed to death and becomes almost reference material to most,
 
Yeah, compression may add...can't think of the exact word "rumble", "heavier low end", but not "punch"(that crisp kick that can make you feel like your speakers are spitting on you). People forget we are now in a digital world of music. EQ andCompression are more of an analog procedure. Before people get all "wtf are you talking about?" on me.

Vocals, Live inputs, ect. can benefit from eq and compression. Finished tracks(not beats)contain elements that can benefit from eq and compression. But while making beats, you should keep signals as clean as possible. Compression and EQ compromise this. There are times when they are nessesary, but rarely. Not close to as often as people in hip hop tend to use them.
 
ruptured said:
The 'punch' in a kick comes about because of the dynamic nature of the sound itself.. the initial impact and subsequent low end content.

Compression redues the dynamic range of any sound, therefore I doubt it can be attributing to REAL 'punch' in the final sound.

I think more than often, the generalisation that compression adds punch to drums comes from modern hip hop music and how everything is squeezed to death and becomes almost reference material to most,
Click to expand...

Yes of course it does and also the frequencies of the sound as well. But compression does create a sense of punch because of the way it shapes the dynamics, enhancing the transient and squashing the tail. An uncompressed kick might well have a pretty full volume envelope where the decay of the tail after the initial transient is also pretty high up in the mix, leaving a kick which sort of lingers. A kick which is shaped dynamically will dip after the initial transient and punch through more without being overwhelming and dominating.

Of course that's only one aspect of it and other factors apply and punch doesn't really come low inaudible frequenices, you can actually HP filter kicks at a given frequency and they sound a lot more punchy.
 
If you use samples for kick drums, you can process them with gain editing and envelopes instead of compression. You can also trim the beginning of the kick so that the kick starts at full amplitude instead of slowly rising up.
 
I've learned that if you layer a hi hat with a good thumpy/punchy kick, you can add punch. It's so subtle but makes a big difference. I use SoundForge, find a kick that I like. Layer it with some sort of hi hat. The trick is to add the hi hat at the end of the wave not the beginning or str8 over top. After you layer the kick, listen to the original kick w/out the hi hat compared to the layered one and you'll hear the difference. You can compress like some have already said, EQ it, turn the volume up, whatever you feel it needs. Give it a try, it works....

One Luv,

MastaMnd

www.myspace.com/mastamndbeats
 
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In FL 7 I run it thru the mixer and add the following effects...

Parametric EQ--Bass Drum Punch preset
Fruity Compressor--Vintage preset

makes it come all the way up in the mix
 
My theory on 808s, is first putting a compressed (vintage and leveler 1) 909 punch to start off the kick, and the 808 compressed (vintage leveler 2) a little bit softer than the 909.. sounds perfect... Of course they are both in two diff mixer channels..

Play them at the same time you have a perfect 808 kick
 
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what you could also do is layer the kick with a "popping" type of synth, one with really no tone or anything just something that makes your speakers "pop"
 
the one thing I do know is there is many different ways to get the punch that you are looking for. the people that posted before me made good suggestions. you have to find what works for yourself.
I like to layer two or more compressed kicks together to make one myself.
 
It's all good advice, just if you compress the kick like my man said earlier, don't overdo it and you gotta play with the attack and release on it for it to sound on point, like most of the time the attack on my compresser is never earlier than 50 ms

Yeah I usually layer my kick with a lowwww hat and sometimes ill cut the attack on it, just if you compress it like my man said earlier don't overdo it and you gotta play with it to get it to sound on point, like my attack is rarely ever earlier than 50 ms on the kick compression
 
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CeeDeeJay1K said:
In FL 7 I run it thru the mixer and add the following effects...

Parametric EQ--Bass Drum Punch preset
Fruity Compressor--Vintage preset

makes it come all the way up in the mix
Click to expand...

this works great. i just went back and did it to some kicks on some of my recent beats, and it worked wonders for them.

good lookin ceedee

:cheers:
 
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