HalfBlacko0000
Good Music
Once I figure out the BPM I'll lay down a hihat pattern so I don't have to use a metronome then create my melody but I don't put the kick snare or toms till I have a full structure of the melody and chords
Drums or Melody First
- Thread starter RyanTrapstar
- Start date
Pherm B Leeva
Pherm B Leeva
Do you pick up a traditional instrument to work out a melody or chords, do you use a midi keyboard in the DAW, or both?
My parents got me a casiotone mt40 for christmas, I LUUVED IT
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HalfBlacko0000
Good Music
I use a midi keyboard
HalfBlacko0000
Good Music
Yes logic has just a test osc. Sound that you can pitch up and down not very musical or pleasing to the ears
hollandturbine
New member
That's right the SH-101 only holds one patch at a time. Yes I do still use the SH-101 in my current setup and while I wouldn't have any problem using it's sequencer in the studio I would definitely consider the sequencer on the SH-101 to be too unreliable and impractical for a live gig unlike say the TB-303.....but that's beside the point which is that the shitty sequencer on the SH-101 forces you to exercise abstract thinking as opposed to just playing what's right in front of you, it's not even about the SH-101 as much as it's about developing creative thinking skills.
If some kid is sitting in front of a laptop they are probably far richer than I was when I started, you have to bear in mind that the hardware we used back in the day was once worth peanuts on the secondhand market and today's kids are definitely far richer in terms of what can be done with software if they are prepared to explore beyond their presets and YouTube tutorials on how to sound like some other person who was actually prepared to dive into the depths of the possibilities which lie beyond the immediate.
Like I said the point isn't even about workflow, it's about how you think about things, for example I have encountered a lot of resistance for advocating the idea that a loop can be cut to the correct length by using a very simple BPM-to-length calculation...people reject the idea because they can't think beyond what they have immediately in front of them, they actually think it's more time consuming and difficult to figure shit out first as opposed to nudging shit around with the mouse all day long so that it doesn't work very well.
Earlier I mentioned my technique for cutting up an acapella, well it works like this, I take an acapella, throw it into my DAW and record a track along side it to create transients, could be just beat boxing into a mic or whatever, I then combine the tracks into a stereo track so I have vocals on the left and transients (beats) on the right, I then throw that shit into ReCycle and remove the vocal, I then use the transients to set slice markers then I undo the removal of the vocal track and then remove the transients leaving only the sliced up acapella.......sound's like a lot more work than "nah homie I just slice shit with my mouse." but then I can do that too if I want but at least I am not limited by a lack of creativity.....my creativity also extends far beyond such a basic example of technical innovation....but I don't want to give too much away just for the sake of making a very simple point about how abstract thinking and creativity tend to go hand in hand.
Have you explored the possibility of changing the metronome sound?
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hollandturbine
New member
Cubase has the same default beeping sound it had way back on the Atari but just like on the Atari it is possible to use some other sound so I just kind of assumed that Logic has the same functionality tucked away somewhere.
HalfBlacko0000
Good Music
Oh I'm sure there is I just pick a hihat in the genre of music I'm producing or the type of feel sometimes a shaker sometimes a bongo just something that doesn't set in stone the rythem of the track like a kick or snare would
hollandturbine
New member
Yeah, I usually go for a closed hi-hat or shaker myself, perhaps even a rim-shot.
Pherm B Leeva
Pherm B Leeva
I'd be interested to hear the results of your creative thinking? Maybe the merits of such technique could be shared with others on the forum, I myself can only aspire towards the kind of creativity that pushes the bounderies from what has been and progresses it into tomorrow.
Meanwhile, I will have to make do with my midi controllers, my mouse and a low budget guitar, my daws, and my ears. I'm not sure I agree with your comments about nudging shit around with a mouse, as a composer and a consumer, I'm sure you would agree the arangement of a song is equally as important as striving towards the nuance of particular sound.
Do you produce for other artists? If so do they allow you 'carte blanche' or do you work under the confinds of your clients wishes.
I sense resentment and a little distain in your comments, lots of people on the forum produce ideas inside the box, with plugins, it's no different than a performer using a guitar because of the particular tone, or a keyboard with a particular preset.
My own synthesis skills are limited, it doesn't stop me from having a go, and like many on the forum, I read posts that help improve my own abilitiy.
I see many young inexperienced people on the forum that need a guiding hand, and perhaps a little encouragement, sometimes the comments I read seem designed to deter them from achieving there goals, or maybe make them feel smaller and inferior some way, there's also a great deal of positivity and some constructive critiicisms that are both genuine and altruistic, without agenda. If I were in a position to help or inspire someone onto greater things, and did, I'd like to think that somewhere in that success lies a little part of me. But that's me.
hollandturbine
New member
I specifically gave a benign technical example of my creativity rather than a stylistic one for a reason.....and yeah you should push the boundaries beyond what's right in front of you, that's the point, it's not about hardware vs software or any shit like that, it doesn't matter what you use it's how you "think" about using it....the thinking part is important because without it all you can ever aspire to is the virtuosity of some really good yet uncreative busker who can play other people's shit really well but couldn't create anything truly ground breaking.
My comment about nudging shit around with the mouse had a context, that being that people choose an unnecessary trial and error approach to setting the end point of a loop because they can't see beyond what's right in front of them...but more importantly they don't want to know, and as a consequence they end up limiting themselves without even realizing it....some people don't search out the best solution they search out the easiest solution because they are intellectually lazy, like those cats who will ask "how do I make this sound?" because the are lazy rather than struggling to figure it out on their own, those are the cats who when presented with a tutorial or a preset will take the preset.....they want fish but don't want to learn how to fish.
I am not limited to working any particular way, and no, there is no resentment or disdain I just ain't about to sugar coat shit and mollycoddle people who think creativity comes from mimicking the fruits of innovative thinking rather than the thinking itself, it's up to them if they want to paint by numbers or not but I am not about to bullshit them and tell them they are Rembrandt for Mozart because they made a dope beat while following the format of a particular genre.....there are different scales of creativity, at one end of the spectrum you have writing shit which is slightly different to something which has already been established and at the other you have establishing something new.
Sorry but I just don't go in for all that I'm OK you're OK positive thinking bullshit where we hand out medals to fat kids who ran last in races in order to build up their self esteem with a false sense of achievement....the idea is to equip people to overcome their shortcomings, not bullshit them that the don't have any so that they can't self improve or focus on the things they are actually good at.
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Pherm B Leeva
Pherm B Leeva
I totally agree with the idea that part of creativity is how you think. There is a world of difference between 'mimicking the fruits of inovative thinking', and exposing your self to a wider spectrum of influence and conciousness.
'Those cats who ask how do you make a sound' come to the forum for help, irrespective of wether someone deems them intellectually lazy. To explore the route of mimicry is entirely up to them, the listening public can be as fickle as the industry can be contrived.
Maybe it depends on an individuals goals and their motivation as to where others might rate them:
Are they purely motaviated towards fame and the financial trappings of success.
Or
Do they consider themselves the artist, suffering for their work, in a world of contradiction and irony, often, on the brink.
Or
Perhaps even both?
I don't have a problem with either.
Maybe you noticed, I liked the comment about the shaker, I'm sure you can guess why? Apart from it being, pardon the pun, sound, practical advice.
I'll put to use.The idea of equiping people to overcome their shortcommings is a noble cause, something we definitely agree on; as long as those shortcummings are bone fide, and not invention born out of some narcassisitic superiority complex, or the result of an overinflated ego.
I enjoyed your words about the busker, wise words, about a tragic reality.
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hollandturbine
New member
I totally agree with the idea that part of creativity is how you think. There is a world of difference between 'mimicking the fruits of inovative thinking', and exposing your self to a wider spectrum of influence and conciousness.
'Those cats who ask how do you make a sound' come to the forum for help, irrespective of wether someone deems them intellectually lazy. To explore the route of mimicry is entirely up to them, the listening public can be as fickle as the industry can be contrived.
Maybe it depends on an individuals goals and their motivation as to where others might rate them:
Are they purely motaviated towards fame and the financial trappings of success.
Or
Do they consider themselves the artist, suffering for their work, in a world of contradiction and irony, often, on the brink.
Or
Perhaps even both?
I don't have a problem with either.
Maybe you noticed, I liked the comment about the shaker, I'm sure you can guess why? Apart from it being, pardon the pun, sound, practical advice.
The idea of equiping people to overcome their shortcommings is a noble cause, something we definitely agree on; as long as those shortcummings are bone fide, and not invention born out of some narcassisitic superiority complex, or the result of an overinflated ego.
I enjoyed your words about the busker, wise words, about a tragic reality.
I am not about to take a shit in some busker's guitar case or tell some kid to be original for asking how to achieve an established sound....even if the aim is to sound like someone else that's perfectly fine, what I am talking about specifically is the kind of thinking which leads to creativity......I am talking about those people who want to be creative but lack the discipline to actually achieve it, which is not much different to fat people buying home gym equipment as though buying it is all the battle, people buying books they have never even read etc.....like the intention is there but they just don't have the drive, which is a shame because some of them lazy people may well have the most potential....the ability to chill becomes productive when there is something ticking away in the background, but you got to get to that point by feeding your mind. Like have you ever been playing something and you just zone out and it's like the instrument is playing itself and your fingers are just following along? well that's the kind of thing I am talking about.
Pumpthrust
New member
I like those "how do I get ______ sound" posts because I know when the time comes, Those posts will be useful (as long as you, steffeh, krushing, and bandcoach are involved).
I agree with your point. I made a post on another forum dedicated to jazz musicians about those types of moments where what you want to say on your instrument comes out so effortlessly. I believe that creativity isn't something you can teach, but it can be nurtured through experience. I always encourage other musicians (and myself) to seek out new experiences and perspectives. You don't have to be a carbon copy, but take what you can and use it to if not make something new, at least make it your own. I bristled at what you said about buskers because I don't believe that playing someone else's music means you are uncreative or lack the capacity to to be creative. In jazz, its the reason why standards are so popular-its not the song, but its your approach that makes you stand out. I have seem buskers here on my city that have done some amazing things to songs I've heard millions of times.
Pherm B Leeva
Pherm B Leeva
When you've finished sucking other peoples......
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Pherm B Leeva
Pherm B Leeva
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for feeding the mind, if it be through science, literature, music, education, art, dance...etc
Your preaching to the convert, It's not about fat kids and gym equipment gathering dust, its about choice, letting someone eat doughnuts, as long as they learn to make those doughnuts.
I'm all for discipline, carrot and stick works, too much of one over the other is counter productive, young minds are impresionable, they come to the forum out of choice, it's not a lazy action, asking a silly question is part of the learning process, they are entitled to.
Creativity can be responsive, a visionaries rage which manifests itself into expressive beauty, the voice that cries out against injustice, ignorance and yes, even social stupidity: It can consume and torment a person, like a cancer, slowly destroying them from within, destructive to the point of insanity, sometimes death. One things for sure some of the most creative thinkers throughout history did not just sit and chill; it's often their calling, sometimes a battle with vice addiction, or a simple need to challenge convention, politics, class, race or stereotype, even something as simple as the new generation seeing out the old, like the the pheonix rising from the ashes.
Things more often than not do not end well!
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hollandturbine
New member
I know it sounds like I am making generalizations when I tend to focus on one particular dimension without outlining all the exceptions but like I was saying there are different degrees of creativity and that applies to buskers too, on one end of the scale you have what I was talking about specifically, someone playing it straight, perhaps displaying the technical skills to sound exactly like the original artist which is a talent in itself but not very creative, and then on the other end of the scale you have someone injecting their creativity by flipping the original on it's head and making it something different.....like the scene in Amadeus where Mozart flips Salieri's tune.....yeah the movie is fiction, but in real life Mozart also worked at both ends of the creative spectrum often taking preexisting concepts and expanding upon them creatively......I don't tend to think of creativity in strictly black and white terms because creativity also exists as different shades of grey.
hollandturbine
New member
I wouldn't make assumptions about someones request to obtain a preexisting sound as there are various motivations, I am only addressing one particular motivation, which is exactly like someone seeking out exercise equipment as though the mere act of purchasing it is enough, it could just as easily be applied to someone who buys an MPC but never learns how to use it because they thought mere intentions and ownership would transform them......I am specifically talking about those lazy people, not some kid who wants something fast because a client requested it and they are on a tight schedule etc......I am talking about lazy people who want to be creative but go about it all wrong.
There is a link between relaxation and creativity.....that's what I was talking about, you should look it up if you haven't already....but yeah you totally need a balance of both hard work and the ability to chill out.....one or the other is not so good in excess.
Bigwon
New member
Drums>Bassline>Chords/Melody seems to be my usual route.
For chopping samples especially, but overall i find what happens alot of times is i'll end up starting the otherway around when i'm uninspired...that beat will usually turn out as shit...but then later on i'll end up salvaging the beat i made and adding new stuff to that making something decent.
For chopping samples especially, but overall i find what happens alot of times is i'll end up starting the otherway around when i'm uninspired...that beat will usually turn out as shit...but then later on i'll end up salvaging the beat i made and adding new stuff to that making something decent.
Pumpthrust
New member
Its funny you mention the "playing it straight thing". The latest controversy in the jazz community involves a band doing an absolute note-for-note remake performance of Miles Davis's classic Kind of Blue. Jazz has its foundations on improvisation, which is kinda why this project has so many people up in arms. I think its a nice way to troll the jazz community who seem to take themselves (and the art of improvisation) so damned seriously.
Pherm B Leeva
Pherm B Leeva
Relaxation is much to do with preparation, finding the zone conducive to productivity, not the catalist behind a creative idea nor does it address important motivating factors behind expression itself, I'd recommend you do some research, maybe someone credited with abstract thought or creative thinking. I'd be happy to help, I'm quite sure someone else on here would advise us both.
Perhaps you might help me get to grips with the idea of lazy people that want to be creative but go about it all the wrong way? It's an intriguing concept, might make for a great thread, it could help others on here.