Anyone not use a computer for their music?

Well, I started out with analog tape, moving through various 4 track reel machines, and then on to a (used) Tascam 1/2" 8 track (impossible to keep running because of Teac/Tascam's disregard for their customers -- I never even filled up a whole tape in the year and a half I had it before I just gave up on it.

After that I moved to ADAT and it was great to use something that actually worked -- most of the time. At the time it was simply amazing to have an 8 track recorder that fit in a 3 RU space. I added another one after a couple of years -- and then when Windows 95 added a multi-track audio layer, I made the jump buying a Frontier ADAT-I/O interface card for my PC.

I'd been synchronizing the ADATs to my Win 3.1 based MasterTracks Pro MIDI sequencer and that was pretty cool -- but when Cakewalk came out in '96 with multi-track audio for Win95 (and MasterTracks, which came over from the Mac, seemed to drop off the map), I used the ADAT's for their converters for 8 in / 8 out DAW recording.

And, brother, I never looked back.

I never started another ADAT project after my first direct-to-HD project. What was the point?

Tape was a pain to work with. You had to worry about rewinding. Should I disengage the head before I rewind. Oh, I ran out of tracks. I better bust out another ten dollar cassette and do some ping ponging... do I dare to record over that when I'm done... no, better save the tracks, just to be safe. Uh, oh, the tape format's going funny. Better clone the tape onto a new cassette. Oh, shoot. My heli-scan head's wearing out. Time for a new head assembly... (well, I never go that far but I was pretty close... things were definitely getting hinky when by the time I started working to HD... and THEN, the damn ADATs, which were no longer used for tape -- just conversion -- decided to blink out. One. Then the other.)


Are you really sure that an ADAT is going to be cheaper?

What's a basic model cost? $800? [Oh, and that gives me pain, since my first one cost me almost full price, $4K !!! ] For 800 or so you can build a pretty kick ass production machine (well, we're talking 2.4 gHz -- not 3 -- and your existing monitor -- not a 19" flat panel -- but you get the idea) with a decent sound card (an Echo, M-Audio, etc) whose 24 bit converters are going to potentially blow the pantaloons off the 20 bit converters in the ADAT. You'll be able to work with a big ol' slug of tracks -- not just 8. You won't ever have to rewind. (I can't tell you the feeling when I realized how profoundly I hated rewind time when I got the HD thing going.) Editing on a single ADAT is impossible. You need to bounce from ADAT to ADAT or onto a HD (and then you need an ADAT lightpipe i/o interface in your PC at that)

I loved my ADATs for the 4 years or so that I used them. But, like I said, once I'd worked on the HD -- I never went back.

;)


[After yet another long-winded post, I realized I didn't really have time to read the other posts right now but I did see the second one, which mentions plug-ins. Since, when my ADATs finally died completely and I switched to a 2 channel Echo Mia, I had to change my mixing style to in-the-box mixing (I used use my 8 channels as sets of submixes mixed in real time with one or more of my 3 synths and my drum module). At first, it was a little hard to get used to... but then I realized that, even on my primordial Pentium 3-500, I could still milk a fair number of tracks with a whole bunch of plug-ins... and all of a sudden I realized just how great plug-ins are. I have a handful of hardware compressors and a few multi-fx boxes, but I always have had to sort of not get carried away or I'd run out of gear. With plug-ins you can virtually clone a 'piece of gear' over and over... if you need 16 channels of simultaneous compression and you've go the horsepower to sustain it, it's as easy as a few clicks. Can't do that with hardware. Anyhow, now I really am out of time! ;) ]


[I hardly ever put up pix of my little hole in the wall, but here's a couple blurry shots of my rig (not seen are another PC and an Alesis QS6 and a Kawai K4).
 
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I guess I have always favored the digital route. I have never purchased the analog recorders. Back in the late 80's I built a midi set-up using the little Alesis MMT-8 sequencer with a data disc back-up. I used the Digital Music Corp MX-8 midi patch bay to hook up my Roland R5 drum machine, Kurzweil K1000, Yamaha DX-7, Oberheim Matrix-1000 and Alesis quadraverb for effects. I ran everything through a biamp 1283 mixer.

I still have this old equipment setting aroung the studio but mainly use a Yamaha AWW4416 to record my Roland XV-88 and Oberheim OB-3 along with my guitars and saxes. I still use the Roland R5 and the MMT-8 to play drums on the XV-88.

I use my Mac G4 for very little although just about everything else is a type of computer to me (except guitars, saxes, and analog mixer)

Here's my set-up
http://coyotedream.com/Pics/details.php?image_id=7
Kevin C
Coyote Dream Records
 
Hardware,because it is dedicated...
If your computer goes down,everything in there goes down with it.

If a piece of hardware goes down,it is one part of a chain that can be repaired or replaced...
 
skyy38 said:
Hardware,because it is dedicated...
If your computer goes down,everything in there goes down with it.

If a piece of hardware goes down,it is one part of a chain that can be repaired or replaced...

Um...

What do you think is inside that cute little multi-tracker? A hard drive. Or, in older machines perhaps an M-O drive (where the media is removable but probably even less reliable than most well made hard drives.)

My computer has two hard drives. And a CD burner. If I want to back up I can simply copy from one HD to the other or dump it to CD-R. (And -- short of a fire or some kind of crazy power spike from hell -- it's hard to imagine a computer catastrophe so bad that it would take down multiple hard drives -- could happen, but very unlikely. I don't think I've ever heard of someone losing two hard drives at once.)

Having used a pair of ADATs before recording to HD was affordable I would never go back. And while a single messed up ADAT tape is not the catastrophe that an unbacked-up HD crash would be -- ADAT tapes went south frequently in my experience. Usually I got them cloned in time but a few times I lost songs.
 
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...like I said.......*dedicated*

each piece of hardware is just that...


they don't do spreadsheets,emails,or Aunt Marthas sponge cake recipes......

the only time hardware crashes is when there's a blackout......


..and even then,I can get everything back when the lights come on.....

oh yeah,don't have to worry about viruses either...

but your computer *does*....
 
skyy38 said:
...like I said.......*dedicated*

each piece of hardware is just that...


they don't do spreadsheets,emails,or Aunt Marthas sponge cake recipes......

the only time hardware crashes is when there's a blackout......


..and even then,I can get everything back when the lights come on.....

oh yeah,don't have to worry about viruses either...

but your computer *does*....

Well if you had a dedicated PC not connected to the internet a virus would not be a problem. Spreadsheets and all that crap doesn't really matter. If you had satelite TV you can have maybe 500 channels but that doesn't mean you watch them all.
 
skyy

Ok... I see what you're saying. But as a user of 'dedicated' multitrack recording gear since 1981 (I didn't move to the PC until 1996 when I began using my ADATS as 8 in/8 out IO for HD recording) I've got to tell you that there's nothing magical about dedicated recording gear. Over the years, I've had all kinds of gear go wack at some very inopportune times.

But, sure, you're right, a multi-use PC can be a mine field for audio work.

However, modern OS's like OSX and XP are a lot more robust at providing stability and protecting their own stability.

And, as was pointed out above, the key to maximum stability is simply to run a well-built limited-use machine that runs the absolute minimum amount of software for its purpose(s). Disconnect if from networks (esp the net, as also pointed out above). Don't run or install any anti-virus or background utilities. Don't install games.


But, hey, everyone works differently and everyone values every tradeoff differently. Some of the dedicated systems -- especially toward the high end of the small studio market -- offer a lot of sophsitication and a lot of stability. You can run high resolution monitors and have some DAW like features combined with dedicated control panels and even motorized faders. If you're willing to spend some dough, you can get something that offers some of the best of both worlds. But there are always trade-offs, too. Even high end systems like the RADAR have limitations you'll have to live with until you buy something new... which could be a while.

But having done music and radio work on a number of platforms for a couple decades, I've become completely dependent on the amount of control I get with a computer DAW -- and I can't imagine giving that control up.


Use the tools that work for you.

:)
 
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I have used adats for the past 6 years, and recently replaced them with Alesis HD24XR's. Easy to use, easy to archive, and a snap to backup. I still have XT-20's to use for mobile recording, but those will be replaced before long, too.

I will be very happy when Alesis comes out with their remote controller though. I get so tired of pushing the little buttons all the time. Other than that, I am very happy with the HD24's, so now all I need is a Pendulum 6386.
 
i personally dont blame anybody for using a pc its quik its easy it sounds good its cheaper..but for what i do there is nothing like good old analog synthesis...nothing will do the trick nothing will scratch that itch ...im a dedicated gear junkie freshly born .and i know that i have a supreme distaste for personal pc use...i feel all cold and red eyed staring at a monitor..just cant handle it....i have recorded pc wise for along time never with the ease of pro tools ...always simple little cool edit pro.i dug it..primarily real time recordings of miscellaneous combinations of the following fr-777<modded>,tr-808,tr-606,mobius sequenced general midi radio shak noisy POS,a-seq 1,alesis 36-30 compressor,apex aural exciter and a boss dm-100 all mixed a mackie micro vlz...i am saving to purchase a dedicated hard ware recorder...and am weary of buying some box that is nothing but tedious and time consuming (in a negative manner anyway)im thinking fostex vf-160...and hoping for the best...
 
I'd have to admit that I'm some what of a purest.....I like true analog and especially KNOBS, I like vinyl, the touchable kind..not laptops, I like the hardware based...lots of moving around and versatility.. not that the computer side of things doesn't offer that..computers sort'a feak me out....plus I work on one for 11 hours a day......but there is definately a different feel to the hardware based that just does something....from the beginning to the finish product you play on your stereo...it's like coming home to a warm fireplace and a bottle of scotch and two beautiful, cladly dressed females..... the females I come home to in the studio that do the pouring, by name are... MPC4000sd, MPC2000xl, Adromeda A6 and Microkorg and a handful of 1200's........this and a lot of guitars and things of the like run into a Behringer Eurodesk MX9000 48/24 channel 8-bus inline console(talk about Knobs) which records to either a Tascam DA-40 or a stand-alone Tascam CD recorder....I have great results w/ this set up so a PC can wait on the back burner for awhile....like to get one for mastering purposes......PC's do expand your possibilities but at the same, in certain applications limit you ...if you are solely reliant on a PC.....to run the show....crash, I hate that word....just a take on it...peace
 
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man i am so there with you on this. I have a pc at the center of my studio for recording, but I do all the creation on dedicated hardware: Akai MPC60 and a bunch of outboard gear. If I could afford it, my ideal set-up (for underground hip hop) would be to have 2 or 3 ADATs, with a phat digital mixer maybe that nice 32 channel Yamaha one. Throw in an Alesis Masterlink and all the outboard gear that you need, i.e. various compressors, effects, etc... I would be in heaven. Unfortunately, I can't afford it. But, there is a true warm sound to tape that is so much better than digital. A friend once compared analog to digital like film versus video. Film is just vintage and warm although not perfect, and video is clearer but there is a certain cheapness to it. That's why the reels still roll at movie theatres to this day. If any of you are fans of underground hip hop, here is a link to a panel discussion by Hi-Tek, DJ Spinna, and EL-P talking on the subject:

http://remixmag.com/ar/remix_bomb_tracks_hiphop/index.htm


apex
 
It's similar to the argument...if you want to call it that...analog vs. digital-analog.....there is a warmth to true analog that doesn't come along with the digital counterpart....it all depends on what you're aiming for and some people won't know the difference and some will in a track.....you could probably apply that to computer based vs. hardware based creations.....are there subtle differences in the finish product...that seperates one from the other.......I guess it depends on as well what you hold as the standard for your creation.....some people probably do much better using PC based and others of us much better and comfortable in a hardware based...at home with messes of stands and wires and gear packed into a 10 X 10 room that gets to 90 degrees after everythings been on for 30 mins....there's also a smell that goes with the hardware based....the smell of gear and wires and power conditioners and vinyl....am I crazy.....there is a scent...out
 
More than a couple of you guys have rhapsodized about your analog hardware's superiority over PCs and then talked about digital recorders and synthesizers...

Digital hardware is still digital.
 
You mean my MPC's aren't analog....those bastards lied to me.....There was no superiority mentioned, but analog vs digital was used as an analog(y) simply to raise the question of whether there were subtle differences in productions created from a PC based set up vs. a hardware based set up....similar to the subtle differences of true analog and digital synthesis of analog....not which is better or worse ......I'm not nock'n PC's at all.....lol....thanks for the heads up though.....I'll have to call Akai....
 
I don't think its about superiority as much as it is differences in sound. its all about the sound your going for. one interesting genre of music to analyze on this subject is roots reggae music of the early 70s. engineers like Lee Perry didn't have the technical training of US engineers and had all this second hand analog euipment. they had no idea on the "proper" uses of the equipment, so they just experimented and did what they felt. the result was some amazingly unique recordings that are timeless. the imperfections added to quality of product. all the smoke, mishandling of the reels, etc actually made it somewhat develop its own sound, a sound that today's "clean" music cannot duplicate.

being a fan of "dusty" recordings myself, i strive to recreate that sound. so where as some will apply every method in the book to make there songs pristine, i work with all the air and noise that comes out of my vinyl, MPC60 ,and shotty vocal booth. some cases i clean up recordings, some cases i don't. it depends on how i feel about the song. actually i just do what seems like a different idea. if i had a whole lot of money and time on my hands, I would take reels and bury them in my backyard and scratch them with rocks, just to hear what it sounds like. if i mess it all up... oh well, re-record and try something new... i can't explain my wacked mentality... forgive me if I have violated the engineers code of rules!

apex

i know i ramble... but i am an artist... i can do that right?
 
That's what it's all about....do what you want when you want with whatever you can get hold of.....I hear shovels are are on sale at the Depot.....
 
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Kwells, If you're gonna pull my leg, make it the left one, 'cause it's a bit shorter after the motorcycle wreck. :D

I totally agree with apex about the method of recording being far down on the list of factors that go into a great record.

Lee Perry's recordings are an excellent example. Using beat up old 4 and two tracks he helped create a whole new style of music and production that is more influential today than ever before. (Back when I was in recording school at a community college in the early 80s I talked about dub and remixes so much my long-suffering teacher [a fugitive from the stacked-vocal "young-adult-pop" of the 70s] finally decided to 'put me on the spot' and asked me to do a 'guest lecture' on it. I think he thought it didn't exist or something... I brought in stuff from everyone from Perry and Big Youth to Was/Not Was, Andy Partridge's radical XTC dubs [Take Away/The Lure of Salvage], even an Orchestral Manouvres in the Dark remix album. The teacher later quit "because of people like" me [according to one of our mutual friends] and he now is a successful designer of recording furniture. Honest. Kind of a shame, though, because he was an entirely decent teacher and I learned a lot from him. He just didn't like peole asking him questions... Ah well.)

And you're not the only person who has considered the effect of all that smoke on those old recorders and mixers... :D
 
I US A ROLAND DAW BECAUSE I FEEL ANY BODY CAN LET A COMPUTER DO THE WORK FOR THEM
 
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