pc specs?

T

tell a vision

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i need a new computer strictly for recording purposes...i plan to record live instruments/vocals and work a little bit with midi... i dont know what a good computer is for recording so if some of you guys can list some or your computer specs with softs along with the pros/cons of the setup that would be helpful...thanks!
 
Well first of all: the better the PC, the better your working environment will be.
=> that means less crashes; no (or less) delay - and here I mean MIDI delay of course; more VST synths and VST fx you can use simultanous (without annoying and definitely unwanted moments of chopping); etc.

=> main parts of your PC for creating music are CPU, RAM, and audio card

As I said, you can go lower, but for a great audio performance, I'd recommend this:

* main board: Asus PC-800 motherboard
* CPU: Intel P4 2,0 Ghz (or more)
* RAM: 1 Gb PC800 RAM (or more)
* audio card: you can start with a Soundblaster, but for serious purposes you'd be better with a decent sound card (but pricey) like a.o. the cards from Midiman (M-Audio), Echo, EGO-SYS, or even more pricey (but full-professional) the Creamware cards.
* monitor: 17'' is a must, the larger the better (19'' or more) for easier programming survey in your sequenser and more VST synths/fx next to each other

If you'd have more specifice questions: go ahead !!
 
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I would add that ,since you want mainly choose a pc for recording,you should get a decnt HD drive (SCSI better).
 
ok i will probably have windows xp so...which soundcard will windows xp be a problem to?
 
Just a thought on the SoundBlaster soundcard. Although not actually too bad for the price it's a bugger with latency. I really can't get below 30ms with my system. There are other 3rd party drivers out there which are supposed to be quite good but I've not risked them because I wouldn't want to risk them conflicting with other programs I use (heh, StarCraft and WarCraft III).

As you've said that you only want to do music on the PC then that may not be a problem. But a better card makes it even less of a problem.:)


Val
 
I strongly recommend a "hand-built box" (by you or someone else) as opposed to a department store machine. But if I had to go with a prepackaged machine I think I'd consider a Dell or Micron.

But check out the prices at places like MyJackRabbit.com -- where you can specify every part/sub-assembly. This avoids most all of the compromises involved in buying an all-in-one system.

(I strongly recommend against E-machines, Compaq, and sadly, now, Hewlett Packard. I don't want to offend anyone who owns one and hopefully they haven't had any problems -- but, especially in the case of Compaq and E-machines there are serious customer satisfaction issues. Compaq is always near the very bottom of the PC Magazine customer satisfaction surveys, and E-machines isn't much better. HP has begun a slide that is very sad to see, as well. I used to always buy and recommend HP printers, and handled the purchases of several HP boxes in the past for family members... but the company is sinking.)

If you do buy a "store" computer make sure you get rid of the incredible array of junk software that is not just loaded on to them -- but is loaded into the boot profile. I recently walked a neice through removing something like 10 completely useless and RAM-hogging background programs that had come loaded on her HP... junk like menus that are supposed to help you but just confuse every naive user I've ever seen try to use them, ad-ware, AOL messenger, all kinds of garbage.

With regard to specific recommendations... I wouldn't bust my backside to spend the money on a SCSI drive unless I was putting together a totally top-end box. The latest 7200 RPM ATA-100 are very fast.

In fact one of my video pals (a guy with a farm of Macs) is building a close to top end PC system for vid editing and he strongly recommends the new 7200 rpm Western Digital IDE (IDE and ATA are essentially the same) with an 8 mB buffer. (This is a guy who always used 10,000 RPM Cheetahs and Seagates on SCSI.)

If you're spending much money at all on your system I wouldn't settle for a SoundBlaster -- although they're fine to start out and they make a great 'second' card.

They're great consumer and gaming cards. I have one for everyday use and testing. (Right now I'm using an Echo Mia as my recording card.) The sound on the SB Live I hav e is a tiny bit grainy but entirely adequate -- and hey, it only cost $60. Where they really shine for a lot of us as second cards, though, is in their built-in Sound Font wavetable synths. The sounds that come with them are pretty hokey -- but you can download (for free and not) all kinds of great sounding drum kits, samples, loops, instrument hits, libraries, etc. Live and Audigy cards can use system RAM for samples, too. On my 500 mB system I sometimes devote between 32 and 80 mB of RAM to soundfonts.

However, don't be fooled by Creative's way-too-liberal use of the 24/96 logos on their Audigy line. That's PLAYBACK ONLY! Even the pricey Audigy Platinum still records at a max rate of 16/48(the Platinum is the one with a minimal mic preamp built into it and offers a 'break-out faceplate' with mic and line inputs that mounts in a drive bay -- I'd rather have an open drive bay, pretty much. Get a real mic preamp.)

Good cards that really do record up to 24/96* start under two hundred dollars and there are some cards with 2 in and 4 or even 8 out that go for not much more than that. And, of course, you can keep on spending up.

SInce you're buying or building a tower I'd definitely stick with either an internal card or an external box that connects to its own PCI card inside the machine. There are some multi-channel Firewire boxs from good outfits like MOTU that are great for laptops -- the data throughput is good but there appear to be some latency issues with regard to the large buffers used in the Firewire standard. I'm trying to get more info on this issue. (Bottom line, Firewire can handle a lot of data -- but it can be slow 'getting started' because the buffer has to be filled up before the transfer can begin.)

If you're recording live sound you'll want a good mic or two and a good preamp -- which could be standalone or part of a mixer. And, of course, if you want to take advantage of multi-channel cards (as opposed to 2 in / 2 out stereo cards) a mixer will be central to your cause. Another piece of gear that frequently appears in the front of a PC recording chain is a compressor of kind... either an all-purpose compressor / limiter with a lot of control (harder to master) or a specialized voice/instrument compressor. (A typical chain would be mic(s) to preamp to compressor to sound interface. There are also affordable and not-so combo preamp-compressors that can be a great deal for a small studio.)

Also, back to the PC. A lot of serious PC musicians recommend having two hard drives: the boot and system drive (with your OS and applications) and another (the fastest of the two if there's a diff) just for audio and music. If at all possible, these drives should be on their own IDE controller channels (or SCSI channels). If you need to, put your CD burner on the slave channel of your system drive.)

Obviously, having a bunch of RAM is good, too. Between 512 and a gB is probably plenty. (hey, a guy read me the riot act the other day because I didn't know that all the metric prefixes are supposed to be lower case... it looks weird to me, too, to write "gB" instead of "GB" but that's apparently what the international standards committe said... so...) If you're doing video or very serious megapixel photography you might even go for more (but some mother boards max out at a gig).

Oh, yeah, and make sure your power supply fan is temperature controlled ("whisper quiet"). Some system integrators cheap out on the case and, particularly, the power supply. The cheap PS that came with the box I used when I first build my machine was pretty loud -- and the PS fan developed a bad bearing after a little over a year -- which was a blessing because I went out and spent $45 on a "quiet" PS ($10 more than the case and original PS but still pretty cheap... ;) ). The new fan was something like only about 20% as loud. And a weak or uneven power supply can damage any or all of the components in your system and cause glitching and application errors. If you PS is underpowered it can actually cause the components to run hotter. (The way I've heard it explained is the capacitors take longer to build up to their discharge point if the power is to weak, so heat builds up in them... but I sort of think this was an almost metaphorical explanation. But, anyhow, the same basic principal applies to all electronic gear. Power supplies aren't sexy but they're very important.

I'm sure I'll think of more, later, when I'm safely away from my computer...

Have fun!



*But stick with 24/44.1 for general use. You'll find info scattered throughout this bboard on why it's the 'sweet spot' if your product will be going out on CD or mp3s. Using 96 kHz can actually produce worse results if it has to be converted down to the 44.1 kHz standard.

PS... this may be the longest post I've ever made. And that's saying something. Geez... why can't I sit down and write that freakin' novel...

PPS... make sure you check out mano 1's ongoing thread Using Windows XP as a DAW OS , filled with lots and lots of info and experience.
 
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tell a vision said:
ok i will probably have windows xp so...which soundcard will windows xp be a problem to?

Well I have an EGO-SYS WaMi Rack 24 card and I had serious driver problems with XP Pro (although on the ESI (or EGO-SYS) site they say they are XP-compatible) - but now it's working fine.
 
Valley said:
Just a thought on the SoundBlaster soundcard. Although not actually too bad for the price it's a bugger with latency. I really can't get below 30ms with my system. There are other 3rd party drivers out there which are supposed to be quite good but I've not risked them because I wouldn't want to risk them conflicting with other programs I use (heh, StarCraft and WarCraft III).

As you've said that you only want to do music on the PC then that may not be a problem. But a better card makes it even less of a problem.:)

dude the KX audio drivers for SBLive should work perfectly with your games. i ran plenty of games (TA, unreal tournament, Quake, max payne, deus ex, those i can remember) with the older (vxd not wma) drivers and me gf plays redalert2 all the time using the kx drivers.
 
I switchted to XP... and that's been a drag for some people since some old hardware and software simply couldn't work with XP (because of its fundamentally different internal architecture). Fortunately, I had a pretty smooth transition since I ran MS's "upgrade advisor" which did an inventory of my hard and software and let me know -- accurately what wouldn't work. (And acutally some products were actually supported by the time I made the move and a couple others came online within a few months. But HP never supplied a complete updated driver for my two and a half year old printer... that's probably my biggest everyday bummer... not having an integrated two-sided printing solution (which should have been easy to put back in... but the ony drivers around are the basic ones that came with XP. The old Hewlett Packard would have never hung its users out to dry like that, seems to me.)


The new high performance drivers (WDM) for XP seem to be worth it, though, for most folks -- and certainly for me. I'd been using a SB Live (with a latency around 160 ms under W98) for the better part of a year and it was nice to move to my Echo mia and get my latency down as low as 2 ms (I'm still experimenting. I was getting some glitching but I think it was another issue... my BIOS got scrambled by a failed QUICKTIME install and I missed resetting a crucial value... actually the processor speed... I was running a little over half speed... it's all so embarrassing... for weeks I kept thinking my system seemed, well, sluggish... :D ).

The fact that someone can get 30 ms latency with the notoriously slow SB is pretty good, I think, but I've heard of faster latencies... although it seems that they may have been running at the SB's internal native clock speed of 48kHz. (Which is a tradeoff of another sort covered elsewhere.)
 
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theblue1 said:

...I'd been using a SB Live (with a latency around 160 ms under W98) for the better part of a year and it was nice to move to my Echo mia and get my latency down as low as 2 ms ...

The fact that someone can get 30 ms latency with the notoriously slow SB is pretty good, I think, but I've heard of faster latencies... although it seems that they may have been running at the SB's internal native clock speed of 48kHz. (Which is a tradeoff of another sort covered elsewhere.)

Firstly, thanks Helpermonkey for the words about KX being OK with games, I think I might give them a go.

Secondly, blue, how on earth did you play anything at 160 ms? Surely it would be impossible to get the timing of your playing correct?
 
blue, how on earth did you play anything at 160 ms? Surely it would be impossible to get the timing of your playing correct?
Well... first I carefully calculate the value in milliseconds of a beat in the time signature I'm working in -- and then divide that by 160 to find out how far ahead I have to play...


No, no. That's a joke, son.

Actually, I never even tried monitoring 'round trip' through the card (except just to see what it sounded like... and it sounded like about 1/7th a second which doesn't seem like very long unless you're jumping off a building, in the process of wrecking a car, or playing music... in which case it's an eternity.)

And I wasn't using any virtual (soft) synths (although you can get used to some fairly serious lag times in playing as long as they're more or less consistent. Piano players do it instinctively (one of the reasons it's hard for them to get used to organs and synths at first)... carrilon players also have to deal with huge lag times, as I recall.

Fortunately, the latency on the SB's built-in SoundFont synth doesn't seem to be noticeable to me at all... I'll have to load up my favorite rhodes sample set and fool with it later just to double check.

Since I have an outboard mixer I ran my live tracks through it (and used the FX sends for any reverb, etc, I wanted in my headphone cue) and then into the SB.

And finally, on those few occasions when I didn't use my outboard mixer I used the SB's ability to monitor the LINE IN (since that monitor point is before the A-to-D conversion it's zero latency.) Of course, it's a dry signal, so you don't get the "niceties" of reverb or echo... but for guitars that's no big deal and for vocals its survivable... I have a pretty good ability to "hear" my vocal in the cans "over" the sound coming from my vocal appartatus.

(Part of the reason folks like reverb and echo on their vocals is to delay the tail of the sound slightly so that you can "monitor" the external sound of your vocal... when you're singing it's harder to sort it all out, seems like. But if you have a little verb tail or echo you have a chance to double check your pitch against the music. I think part of the reason that I can "hear" my vocal more separately is because I've learned over the years to use my auditory memory [there's actually a bit of very specialized memory attached to the auditory system that can "play back" brief amounts of sound... when people say a sound or a loaded verbal phrase "echoes in their ears" what's probably happening is that their unconsciously replaying that snip of auditory memory. If you think about it, that's propbably why sometimes when someone says something you don't completely hear you can sort it out if you have a moment or two to "replay" the auditory memory "buffer" (even though you're not necessarily conscious of doing so. I read about the auditory memory back in college in a cognitive psych class but back then they didn't know much about it or how it worked. Unfortunately, I haven't read anything that addresses it subsequently -- so all of this is conjecture and speculation on my part. But if you think about it, it makes sense. Perhaps some neuropsych students can chime in here... ;) )

Anyhow... even though the latency on my Echo is usually set someplace between 2 and 10 ms (which would be entirely adequate for vocal monitoring) I still monitor through my board and use outboard FX for my headphone mix. If for no other reason than I'm overdue to build my next computer and running a whole bunch of live FX is a bit of a drag on my poor ol' P3-500 (which does very well, considering, because I generally keep it "tuned up" and trimmed down. I can get 20+ discrete tracks of playback with moderate live FX normally... Then again when I was running a P1-133 I could get 16-18 (w/ no fX). Sometimes it seems like the more we advance the more we don't really move that far.
 
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Cheers for that. I think you're doing this in a different league to me.:D

SoundFonts are currently a mystery to me but are fairly high on my list of "things to suss out".

I like the idea of getting a small mixer because I'm actually a guitarist by design and it would be nice to record the thing occasionally. But for now my synths will be soft.


Val
 
Well thanks to everyone who gave me great suggestions on the original subject :D...and mad props to blue1..thanks for that informative.."essay" :D i appreciate it a lot...i definitely know what i want/need now...thanks everyone! :)
 
jay key

Is that recording at 48 kHz or 44.1? (I was initially hearing about people getting 10 ms out of SB's when the WDM drivers came out but I haven't seen that lately... (so I backed off to the more conservative 30 ms figure which I've seen from a couple people.)

Where are the kx drivers from? They sound like a significant improvement. I'm sure a lot of people would like to find out more... (heck, me, too... ya never know when you're going to have to work on a machine that only has a SB in it).

Good stuff, sounds like.
 
theblue1 said:

Where are the kx drivers from? They sound like a significant improvement. I'm sure a lot of people would like to find out more... (heck, me, too... ya never know when you're going to have to work on a machine that only has a SB in it).

Good stuff, sounds like.

Tripton posted this link to them kx drivers when I recently wondered why my ASIO drivers had vanished from my PC (missing ASIOs) .


Val
 
Just to say that I finally got around to installing the kx drivers today and they did not like my system at all.

After installation and reboot I just got my desktop wallpaper and a cursor -- NOTHING ELSE. I kind of like minimal but....

Anyway, I had to try to reboot using a floppy which would not work at all -- don't know why. A Norton disk did it in the end.

And then came the task of putting things back. Because the drivers hadn't fully installed I was missing the "uninstall" option. I eventually did it from a DOS command line.

Finally, I couldn't find my Creative CD to reinstall the drivers but then I remembered where on the hard drive they were so I think we're back to normal.:)

Now, did I make a back up of the Registry before I started installing a significant bit of system? Of course I didn't:rolleyes: There's probably a moral in here somewhere.

It's just a bummer that the drivers didn't work for me because 3 ms latency sounded rather good.

All in all, about 4 hours work and, at one point, I thought it was going to be a reformat job, (oh yes, no recent backups either).

BACKUP THE WORK!!!

It's what they all say, and it's bloody true.


Valley
 
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XP users should remember that SYSTEM RESTORE can be a life saver. If you've been making a lot of changes, it may even be worthwhile to set a restore point just before making a change like this.
 
THM said:

* audio card: you can start with a Soundblaster, but for serious purposes you'd be better with a decent sound card (but pricey) like a.o. the cards from Midiman (M-Audio), Echo, EGO-SYS, or even more pricey (but full-professional) the Creamware cards.

I would hardley consider the creamware cards proffesional. The only cards I would consider pro are the Hammerfall cards w/ Apogee converters, or the high end MOTU cards like the 1296.
 
Sorry guys, but someone needs to advocate a Macintosh.

If you want an off the shelf solution, buy a Macintosh. In terms of configuring them they are much easier to work with then any Windows based computer. I've had to configure both a Windows and a Macintosh OS for recording digital audio. By far the Mac is easier to work with and configure. However, they are more expensive then their Windows counterparts for equal performance. In terms of performance, I think the difference is negligable. You'll hear of the occasional PC user with penis envy claiming that his PC can run 400 stereo channels with 20 effects per channel while running 200 softsynth plug-ins and not even taking up 1/4 of their processing power, but they're talking out their arse. I was a total Windows fanatic and switching to a Mac took me a while to get used to. However, now I'd never use anthing else. I spend less time troubleshooting and more time writing music.

Drew
 
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