CONVERTERS & Virtual Instruments - Do converters make a difference in sound quality?

Apogee but minimally at best. There won't be any sort of night and day difference.
 
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Possibly on the output.But the VST itself will be exactly the same. DA converters only effect the way you hear a source sound, but not the source sound.If I had a choice between the two... i'd pick the Apogee b/c it probably has better conversion. But that's for mixing purposes and nothing else.
 
SmooveMode said:
Apogee Ensemble vs Focusrite Saffire - Will a Virtual Instrument sound any different/better?
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yep Apogee will be the better choice for higher-end conversion at that level

if you're serious about A/D D/A conversion look at Burl converters

if you're doing alot of tracking aka recording look for a AD/DA converter unit
if you're doing mostly mixing 80-90% of the time look for a high-end DA converter unit
but you're monitoring system is just as important and your room acoustic
you can't really appericate higher end
1.monitoring
2.converters
in a untreated room

just a thought on the whole thing


-Coach Antonio
 
fataltone said:
yep Apogee will be the better choice for higher-end conversion at that level

if you're serious about A/D D/A conversion look at Burl converters

if you're doing alot of tracking aka recording look for a AD/DA converter unit
if you're doing mostly mixing 80-90% of the time look for a high-end DA converter unit
but you're monitoring system is just as important and your room acoustic
you can't really appericate higher end
1.monitoring
2.converters
in a untreated room

just a thought on the whole thing


-Coach Antonio
Click to expand...

What's good Pheonix and Fatal!

I may compare the converters in my Apogee Ensemble to the 4800. I may end up using both. I don't believe I need to go all out on a Symphony or the Mothership (unless I find one at a great price).

I was thinking about using both the DM4800 & Ensemble together. The advantage the Ensemble would have over a dedicated converter is the ability to use it's quality Mic Preamps which, I believe, they too sound better than the DM4800. I have a Sterling Tube Mic which I chose over a a Shure (something something) 44. My plan was to use this to add "mojo" when needed. I assume I would use the adat connection on Tascam and set my Apogee as the master clock. Connect the Vocal mic to the Apogee and have the Apogee converter then send the signal to the Board.

I have a question: If I send the Apogee converted signal to the Tascam, then process EQ, Compression inside the Tascam will the Tascam converters then downgrade the Apogee conversion? I guess what I'm asking is if you did hook up another converter to the Tascam, How would you do it?

---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 PM ----------

Got it! My sound does not have to be perfect, but I don't wanna get "Blown outa the water" by some one who recorded on an Apogee or better.
 
I highly doubt it'll be any night & day differences between the Apogee and the Tascam. It's not lik eyou're comparing Apogee to an ProjectMix or another budget mixing board or a low quality console. That thing looks seriously up to par.
 
SmooveMode said:
What's good Pheonix and Fatal!

I may compare the converters in my Apogee Ensemble to the 4800. I may end up using both. I don't believe I need to go all out on a Symphony or the Mothership (unless I find one at a great price).

I was thinking about using both the DM4800 & Ensemble together. The advantage the Ensemble would have over a dedicated converter is the ability to use it's quality Mic Preamps which, I believe, they too sound better than the DM4800. I have a Sterling Tube Mic which I chose over a a Shure (something something) 44. My plan was to use this to add "mojo" when needed. I assume I would use the adat connection on Tascam and set my Apogee as the master clock. Connect the Vocal mic to the Apogee and have the Apogee converter then send the signal to the Board.

I have a question: If I send the Apogee converted signal to the Tascam, then process EQ, Compression inside the Tascam will the Tascam converters then downgrade the Apogee conversion? I guess what I'm asking is if you did hook up another converter to the Tascam, How would you do it?

---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 PM ----------

Got it! My sound does not have to be perfect, but I don't wanna get "Blown outa the water" by some one who recorded on an Apogee or better.
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I would avoid buying the DM4800 if you don't intend to use its I/O. If you are looking for hands on mixer control you could look into an Euphonix Artist Control and Artist Mix (you can add multiple units together for more faders).
 
P. Casso said:
I would avoid buying the DM4800 if you don't intend to use its I/O. If you are looking for hands on mixer control you could look into an Euphonix Artist Control and Artist Mix (you can add multiple units together for more faders).
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nah, he talked about this in another thread. Not to speak for him but... he wants the "studio bling" for his clients.


Also.... Smooth, if you get the beats tracked out when you're recording people.. man it sounds like you really CAN use all that I/O, since it looks like you can route that audio back n forth pretty easily. You can drop different parts of the beat to different channels on the board. This is definitely the type of board I could see myself getting down the line... depending on it's internal effects. The hands on approach to mixing can really make a big difference in your decisions. I wonder what the meter bridges are scaled to and if they are accurate. The more i look at this board the more i'm interested lol
 
P. Casso said:
I would avoid buying the DM4800 if you don't intend to use its I/O. If you are looking for hands on mixer control you could look into an Euphonix Artist Control and Artist Mix (you can add multiple units together for more faders).
Click to expand...

I thought about Euphonix but I passed because of two main reasons.

1. They look like "hobbyist" controllers and won't impress clients(no studio bling).
2. They end up costing close to the same as the Tascam, if you want the same amount of faders.
 
Studio bling? That sounds extremely dumb (no offense, JBH). But hey if it floats the boat go with it I guess.
 
CPhoenix said:
nah, he talked about this in another thread. Not to speak for him but... he wants the "studio bling" for his clients.


Also.... Smooth, if you get the beats tracked out when you're recording people.. man it sounds like you really CAN use all that I/O, since it looks like you can route that audio back n forth pretty easily. You can drop different parts of the beat to different channels on the board. This is definitely the type of board I could see myself getting down the line... depending on it's internal effects. The hands on approach to mixing can really make a big difference in your decisions. I wonder what the meter bridges are scaled to and if they are accurate. The more i look at this board the more i'm interested lol
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That's what I was thinking. I believe I will get a much better mix from using this board than using a mouse. I heard the internal effects are decent, but not exceptional. I'd probably be using plugins. The one thing about the Tascam is an equivalent controller cost more!
 
*Missed your post. You will actually find Euphonix in FAR more serious studios than Tascam.

You will not be doing your mix inside of of the DM4800's mix bus. Preferably not at least. Having eq and compression on input is nice to have if applied correctly.
 
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P. Casso said:
Studio bling? That sounds extremely dumb (no offense, JBH). But hey if it floats the boat go with it I guess.
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I feel what you're saying and I wish I wouldn't need to do this. But, it does impress even those who have been in the industry for a while. Image and Impression is a VERY big deal. I feel that's even more apparent in Vegas. If the Board was going to be totally useless, I wouldn't get it. But, The control surface alone is worth it.
 
You should definitely see what onboard effects are worth it, so u get bang for your buck... instead of just using it to control plugins.

I doubt there will be any huge difference in EQ of Tascam vs. plugins. And i'd be surprised if it's built-in compressor isn't good enough for common tasks. Stock comps usually are good, unless u need something "extra". Using the board's EQ might be worth it right there... a majority of your mixing's probably gonna come from EQ anyway lol.
 
The DM4800 is definitely useful for all of its abilities but impressive not so much, don't believe that hype. I will say it is one of the best things they ever made though. If you do choose to go with the DM4800 you would probably be better off scratching the Ensemble and getting a decent Clock (Apogee or Antelope, etc...). You have to put more emphasis on the craft and skill than bells and whistles. There is a big difference between going to a studio that "looks" professional than one the "sounds" superior.
 
P. Casso said:
The DM4800 is definitely useful for all of its abilities but impressive not so much, don't believe that hype. I will say it is one of the best things they ever made though. If you do choose to go with the DM4800 you would probably be better off scratching the Ensemble and getting a decent Clock (Apogee or Antelope, etc...). You have to put more emphasis on the craft and skill than bells and whistles. There is a big difference between going to a studio that "looks" professional than one the "sounds" superior.
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I was gonna use the ensemble's clock, if I did keep it. But, if you think there are better clocks out there, I'll look into them. I heard the BLA Clock was pretty good and its' cheap. I was also considering an Apogee Quartet and using it's clock. The reason why I was looking into these interfaces is because they have great preamps, converters and I thought a really good clock. My idea is that this "add on" would basically upgrade the overall quality of the system because all the "critical" recordings, like vocals, could be pushed through the Apogee while mixing the Virtual instruments through the DM 4800.

---------- Post added at 10:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------
CPhoenix said:
You should definitely see what onboard effects are worth it, so u get bang for your buck... instead of just using it to control plugins.

I doubt there will be any huge difference in EQ of Tascam vs. plugins. And i'd be surprised if it's built-in compressor isn't good enough for common tasks. Stock comps usually are good, unless u need something "extra". Using the board's EQ might be worth it right there... a majority of your mixing's probably gonna come from EQ anyway lol.
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Good Point! The reviews I get back is the onboard effects are "usable". The compressor being the best part of them. Most of the users seem to already have and use outboard gear with this board, though. If I did use plugins, I wouldn't have to buy any. I purchased a bundle from IK Multimedia called "T-Racks Deluxe". It got pretty good reviews.

---------- Post added at 10:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
P. Casso said:
*Missed your post. You will actually find Euphonix in FAR more serious studios than Tascam.

You will not be doing your mix inside of of the DM4800's mix bus. Preferably not at least. Having eq and compression on input is nice to have if applied correctly.
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I look into the Euphonix, again. I saw one up close and was not impressed at all. It was plasticy and I didn't like the way the faders felt. They're not cheap, either, 1300.00 per 8 faders. I know it does plugin management too, but I wouldn't be using it for that. I don't know why no one comes out with an affordable studio controller.
 
Mixing virtual instruments through the DM4800? Unless you are looking into dedicated analog summing I strongly suggest "mixing" within your DAW. The DM4800 will allow you to control the faders/levels and pans of practically any DAW.Whatever you do just be sure it is well thought out. Anything clocking or preamp advantages of the Apogee are far to minimal to end up with two interfaces. You can always get a dedicated preamp down the line.

What ever you do just make sure you put a lot of thought into it before spending a single penny. You don't want to end up with a bunch a gear that overlaps without any real added benefit.
 
P. Casso said:
Mixing virtual instruments through the DM4800? Unless you are looking into dedicated analog summing I strongly suggest "mixing" within your DAW. The DM4800 will allow you to control the faders/levels and pans of practically any DAW.Whatever you do just be sure it is well thought out. Anything clocking or preamp advantages of the Apogee are far to minimal to end up with two interfaces. You can always get a dedicated preamp down the line.

What ever you do just make sure you put a lot of thought into it before spending a single penny. You don't want to end up with a bunch a gear that overlaps without any real added benefit.
Click to expand...

I'll try both ways. I would like to do some analog summing, but I was told, since the DM 4800 is a digital board, it would be more like digital summing. This kinda confused me.
 
You don't want to do any summing with the DM4800, unless you are using it as a Live Mixing board of course. With the DM4800 being a digital mixer essentially it is mixing your audio no different than it would be mixed in your DAW (by the way, what DAW do you plan on using?). As far as analog summing people are referring to stuff like the Dangerous Audio D-Box, Shadown Hills Equinox, and etc... Some people live by it while some don't think it is worth it, just depends.
 
P. Casso said:
You don't want to do any summing with the DM4800, unless you are using it as a Live Mixing board of course. With the DM4800 being a digital mixer essentially it is mixing your audio no different than it would be mixed in your DAW (by the way, what DAW do you plan on using?). As far as analog summing people are referring to stuff like the Dangerous Audio D-Box, Shadown Hills Equinox, and etc... Some people live by it while some don't think it is worth it, just depends.
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I'm using Apple Logic Pro, at the moment. But, I may begin using Presonus Studio One. I won't know till I try out the demo. I understand what you're saying about summing. I thought about the D-Box and summing a time ago, when I thought I wanted to focus on a "vintage" R&B sound. A Box I almost bought was the Focusrite Control 2802. It's a mini analog mixing desk with a built in summing mixer. It has 8 built in and very usable mic preamps, compressor and dual layer. It's basically a re-badged Audient 2802. The trade off is that it has no converters so I would have to use the Ensemble or get a dedicated converter to make it happen and it only has 8 flying fader channels, before having to "bank" over to the next 8. This would be a step up sonically however, but it would cost a lot more.
 
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