Advice needed by expert...

[q3legend]

Hi. Haven't posted for a while but this is the first place I thought about when reviewing my situation. Hopefully one of you guys can help (KasioRoks u still in here m8?)

Anyway, One of our singles has been signed by a record label and our manager (who is kind of a friend by the way) has told us it's getting released in Jan 2003...just after XMas.

Anyway, he reckons that we'll make next to nothing so it got the band thinking...how? I know a little bit about MCPS and PRS and I know that every time the record gets played in clubs, pubs on radio etc, we SHOULD get royalties. He's also on about getting a big name remixer at about £15k but if singles don't make much money, how can they afford to pay them £15,000?

I hope our manager (long distance friend) isn't trying to rip us off...but it looks as though we aren't going to get much money back. It's been played on radio 1 and it has topped the DJ-Cuts charts so it sounds as though it will do well when it is eventually released.

My question is - what should my band roughly expect to receive if it makes the UK top 40 and what questions should I be asking my manager to make sure we get our fair share? He reckons we'll go 50 -50. Oh and another thing - we haven't actually signed a contract - our mate doesn't believe in them!!!

Lot to think about I know, but any help REALLY appreciated. Desperate for any advice - TIA


Q3Legend

 

[KasioRoks]

Hi. Haven't posted for a while but this is the first place I thought about when reviewing my situation. Hopefully one of you guys can help (KasioRoks u still in here m8?)

I haven't been for a while, but I happen to be back today. How strange.

Originally posted by q3legend Anyway, One of our singles has been signed by a record label and our manager (who is kind of a friend by the way) has told us it's getting released in Jan 2003...just after XMas.

That's fantastic news - what's the name of the single and your band/outfit/ whatever?

Originally posted by q3legend Anyway, he reckons that we'll make next to nothing so it got the band thinking...how? I know a little bit about MCPS and PRS and I know that every time the record gets played in clubs, pubs on radio etc, we SHOULD get royalties. He's also on about getting a big name remixer at about £15k but if singles don't make much money, how can they afford to pay them £15,000?

Well, singles don't make much money and that's a fact, but you should get PRS and MCPS for them - however most plays aren't 100% monitored but go on a pro-rata system, so that rather than say x-radio station played y-tune the money is split out on how the PRS thinks the tunes will be played out. Which means that Robbie williams makes more money than he should because it's easier to work out that way
As for remixers, it's a funny old game, but that sounds like the right kind of fee for a name re-mix (not too big a name though). The thing is that the re-mix is supposed to get you more plays and more sales so the idea is that it pays for itself. What royalty rate are you getting from the label BTW and did you get any kind of advance (although I'd expect it to be small for a single).

Originally posted by q3legend It's been played on radio 1 and it has topped the DJ-Cuts charts so it sounds as though it will do well when it is eventually released.

OK radio 1 is 100% monitored so you should get full whack for your plays on that. It's quite a lot per play as well, so you could get a quite a lot (just depends how many plays you get)

Originally posted by q3legend My question is - what should my band roughly expect to receive if it makes the UK top 40 and what questions should I be asking my manager to make sure we get our fair share? He reckons we'll go 50 -50. Oh and another thing - we haven't actually signed a contract - our mate doesn't believe in them!!!

50 - 50 you're ****ing joking aren't you. Standard is 20% of gross. So unless he can argue that he's done 1/2 the work and you believe him, don't accept this (I know that might be tough for your relationship but 50/50 is screwing you)

You should be registered with the PRS and MCPS if you want to collect your money and if you are you should just give them a bell and ask them about money. As for how much a top forty hit will make you. Who knows mate, you might only have to sell 3000 records to get that, which might make you £1500 (depending on your royalty rate). Then add your prs and MCPS on top of it and you could still only be looking at £4000 in total. Speak to the PRS and the MCPS that's my advice.

Sorry I can't give you some more specific answers, but hopefully that's a few leads.

Congratulations - let us know the tune!

 

[KasioRoks]

**** UP ALERT

20% of Net (but before tax). So that any money's paid out by the band (advances etc) are paid out before the manager get's his cut.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[smartie]

Kasio.. you are great! thanks so much for your valuable time and input here!

 

[q3legend]

Cheers for advice matey

I don't wanna give the band name away just yet. I feel a little bit shocking posting on here behind my mates (managers) back but feel like I need the advice.

As for the 50/50 thing I can't complain that much really. I sent the track up about 18 months ago and he done everything since...at his expense. He got his professional singer in, produced the track and got us signed to the label...everything. We haven't paid a penny! If it weren't for him, we'd be just another bedroom band.

Maybe if we have a good follow up and then an album, I'll start asking questions eh?

Hey ho - it's a tricky situation and I'm really grateful for the reply. Hope I can repay the favour some day m8.

Talk soon

Q3legend

 

[KasioRoks]

OK, well if you're happy with the 50/50 thing then go for it, but I really wouldn't recommend that as an ongoing thing (if you get to do an album and so on he won't be putting the same money up in advance). Basically I'm saying "beware of setting a precedent". As he did the production it sounds like he should be getting more than just a manager's cut anyway.

Also, don't be afraid of talking to lawyers, getting a contract etc. The thing about contracts is that they are for when everything goes wrong and you all hate each other, not for while everything's hunky-dory. It sounds like you're pretty happy with the situation with the manager for this tune and it does sound like he's put in a lot, but without a contract all sorts of nastiness can happen later on. If you get offered an album or whatever make sure you see a good lawyer (Statham Gill Davies are great, from my experience - you are in London aren't you?)

Just to stress again, you need to join MCPS and PRS in order to get your money. Speak to them sooner rather than later.

Finally, you have to tell me the name of the single and the outfit, e-mail me at: kasioroks@aol.com I promise on my ears that I'll never breathe a word about it to anyone, but I'm so intrigued, I have to know!

So yeah, all the best - I hope it gets to number one all round the world and you spend next year on the beach at Malibu!

 

[q3legend]

FAO KasioRoks

Cheers for the advice mate - I really do appreciate it.

I have taken down your email address and I may be in touch with band details (still sceptical mate as I hope u understand)

Anyway, we have just signed a 'publishing contract' and because he helped with the production etc, it looks as we're going going thirds (my brother, myself and my m8). Better than 50/50 anyway.

We had to sign it quickly because my m8 (who it turns out actually runs the record label - which I did not know until recently) was promoting our single in LONDON and trying to get it signed to all the compilation albums - Now dance, Dance Euphoria and all that stuff. He's been in the business since early 1990's and has been on top of the pops, UK top 10 and several number ones in his native Scotland...so knows all about the music biz

The contract didn't look too flattering to be honest but as my brother says - we trust him to do best by us (which he has so far) and we should be lucky to get anything really. He's pulling all the strings and going through all the motions to get the record heard. It's cost his label £8k so far, and has has cost us nothing! - I can give you some details from the contract if u want!

We wrote the song, sent up the demo and he produced it professionally. That's all we have done. If it we're not for him, we'd still be bedroom artists anyway. We should settle for what we get!?!

What do u think?

Also, is it expensive to join the PRS and MCPS? My m8 is a member and by going thirds is technically part of the band. He should receive the money and pass our share on to us yes?

Thanks in advance - I'm not online much these days but will endevour to respond quickly bud.

Keep it real

Later

Q3Legend

 

[KasioRoks]

Cheers for the advice mate - I really do appreciate it.

I have taken down your email address and I may be in touch with band details (still sceptical mate as I hope u understand)

Of course, don't worry about it, I'm just really interested to know, but I completely understand.

Anyway, we have just signed a 'publishing contract' and because he helped with the production etc, it looks as we're going going thirds (my brother, myself and my m8). Better than 50/50 anyway.

Is that for the one tune or ongoing? Who is the publishing deal with? (if you don't mind me asking) and also how much are you getting. Again I can understand that you might be wary of giving out too much detail. My only thought is that you don't want to be tied into a contract where this guy gets 33% of your publishing forever.

We had to sign it quickly because my m8 (who it turns out actually runs the record label - which I did not know until recently)

Just keep your concerns in mind, that's all I'm saying. If/when you see some money get to a lawyer. At the end of the day it seems that you aren't going to lose any money on this and you'll get your name known. That's pretty amazing in itself.

was promoting our single in LONDON and trying to get it signed to all the compilation albums - Now dance, Dance Euphoria and all that stuff.

That's absolutely wicked mate. I'm presuming it's a 'trance' type thing that you're doing.

He's been in the business since early 1990's and has been on top of the pops, UK top 10 and several number ones in his native Scotland...so knows all about the music biz

I'll try and work out who he is then

The contract didn't look too flattering to be honest but as my brother says - we trust him to do best by us (which he has so far) and we should be lucky to get anything really. He's pulling all the strings and going through all the motions to get the record heard. It's cost his label £8k so far, and has has cost us nothing! - I can give you some details from the contract if u want!

Contracts never do. i'd be interested in some of the detail though. To be honest this guy is probably not trying to screw you, but he may have weighted things in his own favour. no biggy. I'm being shafted royally by my record label (a UK major) and am just remembering the A&R guy lying to my face as he told me he'd give us a good rate because the advance wasn't very big. We still took the deal.

We wrote the song, sent up the demo and he produced it professionally. That's all we have done. If it we're not for him, we'd still be bedroom artists anyway. We should settle for what we get!?!

Well, yeah, in some ways (especially as he's done a lot more than just take the record to labels) but this should be a stepping stone to greater things hopefully. Keep in mind that if the record makes money he couldn't have done that without you either.

Also, is it expensive to join the PRS and MCPS? My m8 is a member and by going thirds is technically part of the band. He should receive the money and pass our share on to us yes?

I'm not sure how it works to be honest. Be careful that he doesn't register himself as the author of the work with them as that just isn't true. MCPS is only about £50 and PRS is a bit more expensive (but not HUGELY expensive, maybe 300 notes). Give them both a ring, they are very helpful.

Thanks in advance - I'm not online much these days but will endevour to respond quickly bud.

Same here, just got off a small tour. I doubt I'll be around for the next week either. But I'll come back when I can.

Keep it real

Nah, I don't think so, reality is pretty poor at the moment. I think I'll keep on dreaming.

 

[KasioRoks]

Dunno if you're still checking here mate, but I found out some details about the PRS and MCPS thing last night (in an unconnected conversation). PRS costs £100 to join and MCPS £50. Just thought you might want to know.

 

[q3legend]

Yeah I'm here ...

And I really appreciate your time bud

There's been some big developments and I think we're gonna confront him soon - about a few things we're not happy with.

I may well send u an email m8...I'll keep u posted regardless (probably the weekend)

Wish us luck,

Kind regards

Q3legend

 

[hitch]

Hoping this is just a repeat and you've probably read this already, but take a look and see if this helps you see your situation as it may or may not pertain to your group...


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