DJing with Serato

[alee623]

Hey guys I'm looking to start djing and have narrowed it down to what I'm gonna get. Do to economic reasons/being a begginner, I'm not trying to spend over 500 dollars. I've narrowed it down to the numark Battle Pak, but want to make sure that these are atleast half decent tables. Please let me know what you guys think about these from either personal expiriences or from what you have heard or if you have any reccomendations for other/better yet still less pricey stuff. Also it seems like the program Serato could be very useful in live situations and was wondering how this program works. For example can the numark tables be hooked to a computer to be used with this program? Let me know what you guys think and pass along any good information that I could use. Thanks

 

[B MAc563]

ask yourself how serious you want to take this, if you are dead serious I would go with some used technics and a used vestax mixer before I bought anything from numark. i havent owned anything from numark for a long time so maybe they stepped their game up ..i dunno.
But yea you can hook any turntables and mixer to serato

 

[alee623]

Has anyone actually had the numark tables? I just want to hear some feedback on people that have actually tried them before. Also once you have your vinyl tables how do you go about connecting them to a computer?

 

[B MAc563]

I cant comment on the tables but unless you have serato you need to hook them up to some kind of audio interface to your computer..
If you on a budget you could connect the rca outs from your mixer to a 1/8 adapter then plug right into your mic jack on the computer.

Check out the alesis usb8 its a little mixer that connects to your computer thru usb ..I used to use one a while ago and when i got mine it was only $100 , im sure you could find one cheaper now if you google it.

 

[Johnpuga1982]

Your wasting your money if you buy that Numark pack.

 

[alee623]

So if not the battle pak what else do you guys recommend? I've been looking around on ebay for some cheap 1200s but haven't found any kind of cheap combo of tables and mixers. Any recommendations of some solid, cheap setups? Im looking to do some scratching and playing more hip hop/rap stuff. Thanks alot

 

[Johnpuga1982]

Save your penny's for some Technics or go to your local Guitar Center and put a turntable on lay-o-way. DJ'ing is an expensive hobby.

 

[2dublezero3]

My advice, if you want to actually learn a craft and a skill, is to NOT buy Serato yet! Instead learn how to DJ properly by spending time and effort training your ears, digging for vinyl...going the old-school route. Once you can competently mix then get Serato...that way you're taking skills that you've developed the old-fashioned way and progressing with them, rather than starting with Serato and then never being able to DJ comfortably without it. I see so many DJ's that just stare at their computer screen the whole time, but their mixes are solid...you turn their monitor off and all of a sudden they're clashing beats all over the place. If that were me, I'd be embarrassed!!

In terms of turntables my advice is to buy the best you can afford from the start. I bought a second hand pair of 1210's about 9 years ago now and they were at least 7 years old when I got them...they still work like new and will probably last as long as I do! The good thing about technics is that they hold their value really well, so if you buy a pair 2nd hand and then decide dj'ing isn't for you at a later date you can still sell them for about the same you bought them (unless you bought them new in the first place). Few, if any other turntable brands can say this. In terms of a mixer, again I'd buy 2nd hand (I would seriously recommend the Vestax PMC05 pro as a solid starting point) and buy a new crossfader straight off. If you buy the PMC 05 pro I'd slap a proxfade fader by eclectic breaks immediately - you'd have a very admirable set-up right away!!

I know this might not be what you want to hear, but if you're serious about being a good DJ then I'm sure you'll do the right thing!

My advice, if you want to actually learn a craft and a skill, is to NOT buy Serato yet! Instead learn how to DJ properly by spending time and effort training your ears, digging for vinyl...going the old-school route. Once you can competently mix then get Serato...that way you're taking skills that you've developed the old-fashioned way and progressing with them, rather than starting with Serato and then never being able to DJ comfortably without it. I see so many DJ's that just stare at their computer screen the whole time, but their mixes are solid...you turn their monitor off and all of a sudden they're clashing beats all over the place. If that were me, I'd be embarrassed!!

In terms of turntables my advice is to buy the best you can afford from the start. I bought a second hand pair of 1210's about 9 years ago now and they were at least 7 years old when I got them...they still work like new and will probably last as long as I do! The good thing about technics is that they hold their value really well, so if you buy a pair 2nd hand and then decide dj'ing isn't for you at a later date you can still sell them for about the same you bought them (unless you bought them new in the first place). Few, if any other turntable brands can say this. In terms of a mixer, again I'd buy 2nd hand (I would seriously recommend the Vestax PMC05 pro as a solid starting point) and buy a new crossfader straight off. If you buy the PMC 05 pro I'd slap a proxfade fader by eclectic breaks immediately - you'd have a very admirable set-up right away!!

I know this might not be what you want to hear, but if you're serious about being a good DJ then I'm sure you'll do the right thing!

 

[B MAc563]

good advise above but realisticly most people nowdays want instant gratification. i've got over 12 years in the dj game and it was a long hard road that I don't think a lot of people are willing to go through. but on the real serato should be like a drivers license, you should have to prove that you can mix, & match beats with records before you earn the right to use serato.

 

[2dublezero3]

serato should be like a drivers license, you should have to prove that you can mix, & match beats with records before you earn the right to use serato.

I'm glad someone can back me up on this! Believe me, serato IS amazing but it won't make you amazing...not unless you've got a decent understanding (and you've spent time training your ears) of how to DJ without it. Nowadays every time someone comes up to me and asks me to teach them to DJ they bring serato up - if they actually listen to my advice and stick to vinyl (for at least the first 6 months) they become far better DJ's. The guys that don't listen to my advice and just buy serato - they come up with some good mixes, but you take serato away, and they just sound awful. Surely they're just cheating themselves??

Aaaaannnyway, I guess it is cool doing whatever...BUT if you want to be the best you can then the ONLY way you can do that is to dedicate time, lots and lots of time to learning the basics, perfecting them, and moving on.

The other point I always say to future serato users is this: make sure you still buy vinyl too...it's the only way to keep the medium alive, and it's the only thing that's going to get you out of trouble when your computer crashes or your hard-drive fails.

good luck with your decisions alee

 

[Johnpuga1982]

I find Serato to be a tool. After learning on and playing records for 6 years, I find that the computer makes things convenient. As far as being creative with the mix I notice myself far more creative then the dj's who just started on Serato. You learn to work things out with the records. Learning the hands on way is the best way, but like someone said earlier, "people want instant gratification."

 

[Strat]

my advise is complete opposite of what the guys will tell u.
the dj software stuff like virtual dj, serato, pcdj dex, torq are great tools for learning how to do dj.

let me give u a little example ... ur playing on one of the dj software vdj for example... u can by pass the time code vinyl, turn off the turntable and still loop that side of the deck. so if its an instrumental your using to scratch it'll go on forever and ur doing it without your turntable on the other side being powered. your only using one table[to scratch]. **** ,u can turn them both off and still play them just using keyboard shortcuts on your computer.

(u can also map keyboard shortcuts to add "natural" effects to your mix. for example kill bass on one side of the deck. ((if your were on a budget mixer that doesnt have kill switches. psk psk.. the dj software just saved u money instead of buying an expensive mixer.)))

i use vdj and i tell u i it wouldnt be possible for me to do the things i do right now without it. yes im still a rookie and all that and dont have too much time to practise but i wouldnt be where i am without dj software.

technically my skill level on where i want it to be is 3 or 4/10
compared to other djs locally in my area its 8-9/10

i dont agree with that drivers license analogy.
thats like telling someone before u use a drum machine they must learn how to play real drums.. man **** that. this is 2009 not 1950.
i dont know about serato coz ive never used it. i actually downloaded it the other day jus for the sake of it. but i dont think it'd work without its box.
i would closely watch torq software before serato and virtual dj. look at what native instruments traktor has to offer.
its gonna be a long quest for u to find the best turntables and the best software to use. myself im still in that journey coz im only a few months into this sh1t.
if ur on a tight budget u might be forced to go virtual dj, mess with songs while u gt ur money up. get one used turntable. get mixer. get the other turntable. etc...
there's nothing wrong with the battle pack if ur getting it dirt cheap and using it with a dj software.
there's very little difference if any when using turntables and dj software. imo there's none. maybe only torque. and when it comes to torque the tech gets beat. but i dont want to get into hating on the technics in this thread.

so my word is dj software is like religion. there's many different kinds out there. like 5-6 good ones. u find the one that fits u and ur budget and go with it. if one is better than the other in one area its behind the other in another area.. so it really cancels out which takes top place. even when one takes top place it doesnt hold it for too long coz unlike hardware its software.. it can be updated quick.

so as a new cat u get one u think connects with u and just go with it. im already too deep into the one im using and wont switch. but if a new dude ask me to recommend them i'd say traktor scratch (NAMM 2009 #1 dj software pick), torq (its just something i like about m-audio company) and of course the one that i use virtual dj (you can get it for "free" and buy components slowly).

 

[2dublezero3]

you're right: with stuff like traktor and serato you will be able to pull off better mixes quicker...but if you take that software away I bet you're lost (no offense, but it takes time to learn how to dj by ear). I'm really not trying to say that dj software isn't good...I have Ableton Live and Serato, all I'm saying is that by waiting a while before you use these tools, and use standard vinyl instead you WILL benefit in the long run. Learn to walk with vinyl then run with whatever you want after that

 

[Strat]

you're right: with stuff like traktor and serato you will be able to pull off better mixes quicker...but if you take that software away I bet you're lost (no offense, but it takes time to learn how to dj by ear). I'm really not trying to say that dj software isn't good...I have Ableton Live and Serato, all I'm saying is that by waiting a while before you use these tools, and use standard vinyl instead you WILL benefit in the long run. Learn to walk with vinyl then run with whatever you want after that

where u vinyl guys have it wrong is telling a newbie start with vinyl and that its gonna be beneficial in the long run. of course it would be beneficial in some way. long run? i dont know about that. by the time he gets it... infact in the process of trying to get it he might quit.
there'r different ways of doing the same thing. it might have been easier for to do it that way but some ppl just dont have patience anymore. ppl are looking for shortcuts and there are shortcuts.


but this is 2009 there's so many ways to dj. cd djs, vinyl djs, computer djs, cd mixes with no djs etc...

sh1t, all u need to dj really is a computer. a laptop. but of course one would never get respect from "real" heads with just a laptop or a cd deck. sh1t, ive seen some dudes who own technics turntables but they cant mix or scratch for sh1t.

yeah there's a big difference btwn me djing with a laptop and some new dude doing it coz me coming from a turntable background listening to djs on the radio i wont be carried away punching stupid effects.
so in some way u r right coz u can tell the difference btwn a mix done by a vinyl dude and a dude who just started djing on a computer.

but when im at the bar and some dude is djing on a laptop. he pleases 98% of the crowd there. theyr having a good time. im not. why would he care about what this dude with 5 turntables thinks?

my thing is why learn dj so slow on "real" vinyl when u can learn it much much faster in a more modern way? i think its just a way for the old heads to stay in charge. but the game has changed. and its changed for ever. there wont be no time for the computer to go off coz u will have a backup. even if it happens it'll be once in a blue blue moon. u just restart and let the party resume...
and anyway by the time dude practises on serato he'd have connected with his puter and knows whats up with it and can trouble shoot it with a quickness.
with me im comfortable using computers coz im a computer tech. so anything wrong will be fixed with the quickness and im backed up. and ready for anything to do wrong.

 

[alee623]

Hey guys I really appreciate all the feedback and am glad that there is a place like future producers where I can get this information. I have kinda thought about the numark battle pak and am leaning towards some used or new technics 1200s. Not only do I think I would just have a better experience djing with these but I like how even if I dont end up pursing djing, they have a relatively good resale value. In regards to Serato, I really do like the idea of starting off without it and learning and digging for vinyl. The main reason I was interested in serato because of the fact that i have almost 5000 songs on my computer and I feel I could save alot of money. I am not planning on getting it though just because I'd rather be a solid dj without having to rely on a computer program. My main question is, how does one go about crate digging? How did you guys start your collections of vinyl? There are some good record shops around me but I cant go out and drop 100 bucks on a couple records. Please just give me some insight into starting a collection and maybe some "must haves" in ones collection. I really like hip hop but am open to house, jazz, or anything else you guys reccommend. Thanks

 

[dj jeff]

if you can't afford technics then try a pair of second hand numark tt200's.

for the money they the best

 

[2dublezero3]

Strat: I see where you're coming from 'cos I have friends with your viewpoint...but those guys literally can't take their eyes off their computer while mixing and in my personal opinion they're cheating themselves - the crowd they're playing to won't care, unless something bad happens. What happens if someone spills their drink on your laptop, or you have a huge gig lined up and a few hours before your comp gets stolen/your HD dies...or whatever? You're screwed...no promoter is going to hire again you if you turn up saying something like sorry I can't play tonight cos I don't have a music library to play anymore. OK the examples might be very unlikely, but the bottom line is as a DJ you should be prepared for anything which means taking vinyl or CD's or whatever along with you.

alee: It's good to see you've read what I said, even if you don't carry any of it out, it's better to read something and make an informed decision from it, but I'm really encouraged by your thinking and general approach to this.

So vinyl digging eh? Well to start off with I'd recommend taking a look at some track listings from mixtapes/cd's from DJ's you like in a genre you're interested in. If the info is available (if not look on somewhere like discogs.com which will give comprehensive info on the track in question) take a look at some of the record labels that your fav tracks are on then keep an eye out for these labels when you're digging; look at the artists themselves: did they do the track on their own, or was it a collaboration...if so investigate other tracks the artists have done, whether on their own or singularly...etc. etc. the more info you can rely on, the quicker you'll be able to spot potential gems from a stack of records.
There are loads of places you can buy records from - especially if, like me, you have broad tastes. If you have a thrift store nearby, check that out, or look for tracks you like on ebay...if you're going 2nd hand, just make sure the record isn't too warped or scratched (a few scratches are almost inevitable but if they look deep then I probably wouldn't buy the record), keep an eye out for records being sold in your local papers or online. Good luck with it all anyway...if there's anything else you want to know give us a shout!!

 

[Strat]

Strat: I see where you're coming from 'cos I have friends with your viewpoint...but those guys literally can't take their eyes off their computer while mixing and in my personal opinion they're cheating themselves - the crowd they're playing to won't care, unless something bad happens. What happens if someone spills their drink on your laptop, or you have a huge gig lined up and a few hours before your comp gets stolen/your HD dies...or whatever? You're screwed...no promoter is going to hire again you if you turn up saying something like sorry I can't play tonight cos I don't have a music library to play anymore. OK the examples might be very unlikely, but the bottom line is as a DJ you should be prepared for anything which means taking vinyl or CD's or whatever along with you.

alee: It's good to see you've read what I said, even if you don't carry any of it out, it's better to read something and make an informed decision from it, but I'm really encouraged by your thinking and general approach to this.

So vinyl digging eh? Well to start off with I'd recommend taking a look at some track listings from mixtapes/cd's from DJ's you like in a genre you're interested in. If the info is available (if not look on somewhere like discogs.com which will give comprehensive info on the track in question) take a look at some of the record labels that your fav tracks are on then keep an eye out for these labels when you're digging; look at the artists themselves: did they do the track on their own, or was it a collaboration...if so investigate other tracks the artists have done, whether on their own or singularly...etc. etc. the more info you can rely on, the quicker you'll be able to spot potential gems from a stack of records.
There are loads of places you can buy records from - especially if, like me, you have broad tastes. If you have a thrift store nearby, check that out, or look for tracks you like on ebay...if you're going 2nd hand, just make sure the record isn't too warped or scratched (a few scratches are almost inevitable but if they look deep then I probably wouldn't buy the record), keep an eye out for records being sold in your local papers or online. Good luck with it all anyway...if there's anything else you want to know give us a shout!!

but dub lol theyr using the computer to mix why should they take their eyes off the computer. do u take ur eyes off your turntables and mixer? i sort of use both styles and i dont take my eyes off what im doing. im no rob swift.

and bad sh1t happen all the time. to puter or vinyl or cd djs. when its time for bad sh1t to happen it jus happens. there'r careless vinyl and laptop djs alike.
my boy one time had his whole case stolen from the backseat of his car. it couldv been any type of dj in that case cds or vinyl. the cases with 3 compartments. he found his sh1t 2 weeks later at a pawn shop.
----------------------------------------------------------------

alee: if uve decided to go vinyl get some [new] techs or vestax or stanton str-150, or ttxusb. its gonna be a long journey. hope u have the patience.
forget about the little 5k mp3 files u have. yes in the digital world 5k is little. i'd have liked to see u go digital.
but u sort of need turntables even going digital. the extra cost to fully going digital after the tables and mixer is getting a asio usb card which would cost about $130 and some time code vinyls $30 for 2.
that that $160 would allow u to fully play ur 5k files. but thats if u decide to go with another program other than serato.

if u chose to go vinyl its gonna take u the cost of each vinyl about $7 per vinyl. when u couldv just downloaded high qualities of the files for free. like the 5k files u have. there's all sorts of good rare sh1t u can find in blogs.

 

[2dublezero3]

actually I do take my eyes off my mixer/turntables and serato...for two reasons really:

first is crowd interaction - I want to know what people are into, what isn't so well received, who I'm playing to, if I'm suddenly playing to an empty dancefloor I need to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it...there are all sorts of reasons why looking around is a good idea. Plus there is the fact that a dj with his face stuck in front of a computer all the time is less aesthetically pleasing to a crowd compared to a dj who's moving all over the place and looking at the crowd for responses etc.
secondly if I stare at serato all the time I'd end up losing the listening skills I've developed. Even the computer display can be wrong...dnb for example can sometimes appear out of time on the screen but listening to it you know what's what. Also if you're concentrating on what is going on visually you might miss audio clues about records, such as the fact that the two records' harmonies might be out; there's more to mixing than just beatmatching, mixing in key is a stage beyond and you're not going to get any clues about mixing in key from looking at a computer sreen.... don't get me wrong though, I do keep an eye on the computer display from time to time, especially when I'm doing a complicated mix or the monitoring in a place I'm playing at is whack, but even then I try to use my ears rather than my eyes.

 

[Johnpuga1982]

my advise is complete opposite of what the guys will tell u.
the dj software stuff like virtual dj, serato, pcdj dex, torq are great tools for learning how to do dj.

let me give u a little example ... ur playing on one of the dj software vdj for example... u can by pass the time code vinyl, turn off the turntable and still loop that side of the deck. so if its an instrumental your using to scratch it'll go on forever and ur doing it without your turntable on the other side being powered. your only using one table[to scratch]. **** ,u can turn them both off and still play them just using keyboard shortcuts on your computer.

These are just functions of the programs. How does these functions make you a better dj?

(u can also map keyboard shortcuts to add "natural" effects to your mix. for example kill bass on one side of the deck. ((if your were on a budget mixer that doesnt have kill switches. psk psk.. the dj software just saved u money instead of buying an expensive mixer.)))

This sounds more like safety nets. When you have your technique down you don't need to rely on safety nets.

i use vdj and i tell u i it wouldnt be possible for me to do the things i do right now without it.

What do you do with it?

yes im still a rookie and all that and dont have too much time to practise but i wouldnt be where i am without dj software.

As stated, you are new to the game. What credentials and experience do you have that you can give such advice to someone who is just starting? Again, as stated you wouldn't be where you were without the dj software. It sounds like you use the software as a crutch.

technically my skill level on where i want it to be is 3 or 4/10 compared to other djs locally in my area its 8-9/10

Based on how you rate yourself, your really not experienced to be giving such technical advice.

thats like telling someone before u use a drum machine they must learn how to play real drums.. man **** that. this is 2009 not 1950.

I'll agree and disagree with this statement. TRUE you don't need to be drummer to navigate a drum machine. Think about how much better you would be at it if you had a solid foundation in drumming.

there's nothing wrong with the battle pack if ur getting it dirt cheap and using it with a dj software.
there's very little difference if any when using turntables and dj software. imo there's none.

There is clearly a difference in quality from a dj pack that cost $500 and one turntable that cost $500.

so my word is dj software is like religion. there's many different kinds out there. like 5-6 good ones. u find the one that fits u and ur budget and go with it. if one is better than the other in one area its behind the other in another area.. so it really cancels out which takes top place. even when one takes top place it doesnt hold it for too long coz unlike hardware its software.. it can be updated quick.

This is valid statement.