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Thread: MPC User's Guide to the MV-8000

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    MPC User's Guide to the MV-8000

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    1. The hard drive is tied to some of the most important functions of the MV. Hard drive failure, corrupted data, or erasing an important file can crash the entire unit. It is more like a PC than a hardware sequencer. It even performs start up and shut down like a PC. Since verything hinges on the hard disk, you should view the hard drive as temporary storage and back up everything on CDRW or your PC.

    2. 8 audio tracks. This is a feature that is getting its props. However, most MIDI sequencers, if not all, that have audio tracks are software on computer platforms (Pro Tools, Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Sonar, etc). These are software based. Audio is recorded to the PCs hard drive. This is extremely efficient and doesn't bogg down the computers RAM. Hard drives today can store more than 200 gigs. The MV-8000 on the other hand stores audio in its RAM, which is maxed at 512 I believe. This RAM is shared by the sequencer, patches, and any samples. A large project can eat up this memory. When it comes to saving such a large project...it can take a very long time to save. In reviewing the unit, I created a projecrt that took 5 minutes to save. I found it far from efficient. I would limit my use of the audio tracks for this reason. I also have to add..one a sample or audio file is stored in RAM, there is no easy way to just delete it like other similar units. You have to go to the project menu and go through an optimize process just to get rid of the sample to free up memory. A simple sample delete key would be nice...just like other samplers that were created from 1988-2002.

    3. Being a MIDI crazed maniac..I found the 2 MIDI outputs limiting. I can work around it..but for a unit that is aiming for professional use and claiming to be the center piece of a studio..additional MIDI outputs would be desirable. 4 MIDI outs would be nice

    4. It has all the common sync protocols like MMC and MTC, but I would like to have SMPTE as a future option.

    5. It has seperate input connections for sampling turntables and also line sources...but you cannot a turntable and a line source to the unit at the same time, the MV will disable the line inputs. If this is the center piece of my studio, I don't want to connect and disconnect cables all the time. I can work around this by using an external mixer but....

    6. The LCD screen is small and is very cumbersome with all the functions that are displayed on it. Since it isn't adjustable, I found myself hunched over the unit. You NEED the VGA option with this unit..no question. It should be a standard not an option.

    7. Time stretching. Roland products may probably have the best real time stretching of any harware synths.samplers, etc. This is the highlight of this unit. A serious tool for remixers and sample-based producers. But, I have to add that if one spends $2000 on this unit, they would most likely own and use a computer in their studio. Most of the new digital audio progranms have this function as well and is as powerful or better.

    8. As a highend unit, I was disappointed that it didn't have ADAT digital ouput option like other workstations in its price class. There is Roland's R-Bus digital protocol and also a converter box for ADAT connection...but I found this Roland's attempt to make more money and keep everything in the family. I don't know of any non-Roland R-bus products.

    9. The onboard layout of the MV is very similar to other leading sequencers. But int its attempt to be the last sequencer you will ever need, it has added cunbersome menus and keys that perform the same funtion. There are functions that are so simple that it should take minmal navigation to accomplish yet you have to go to another MENU...project optimize, project save, project save as, project delete, project protect, create new project, project load, project back-up to CD, recover project from CD, project rename...I am all projected out. Everything can be combined to a project load or save. To load a project, it will be in two places..either the hard drive or CDRW..no need for additional menus for that..the reason why hardware sequencers have remained popular because producers like being spontaneous....we have enough of Windows/menus in our lives.

    10. The pads are ok. However, if you strike them hard enough, it may trigger sounds on an adjacent pad. Roland added a pad input sensitivity to help you if you have this problem.

    11. On-board sounds are not really on-board as in sounds in a sound module. These sounds/patches are stored on the hard drive. Not really a reason to buy jump for joy. Most sequncers today come with sounds on a CD or DVD Rom that can be stored to any medium you like. The sounds are no better or worse than anything I have heard in similar products. However, there is a big support forum intended to help (jump start sales of the MV and related products)users. You can purchase patches/sounds designed for the unit a fair price which is ok. But..most similar units can load just about any commercially available sample CD roms with similar sounds without any or very little tweaking.

    12. So when it is all said and done, it really comes down to do you really need the bells and whitles this unit have? Do you mind the waiting time it takes for it to perform certain functions? And best..does it fit your budget.

    You may never need 128 tracks and its attempt to add audio tracks (which would only be useful to me if the tracks could be recorded and streamed to/from its hard drive). Cheaper alternatives exist for real-time time stretching such as Acid (which is software based). Nothing new or original in the MIDI sequencer or the layout of the industry standard 16 pressure sensitive grey pads..

    But, despite its short comings, I have found it to be a worthy addition (not a replacement) to my gear addiction. Especially since Roland is dedicated (for the time being..where is the MC-909 these days)to promoting this item. If Roland supported the MC-909 sampling groove box better that they are now, I would opt for it instead. It can do many of the similar things plus you can install Roland's SRX chips in it. Only if they mad a MV-8000 with slots ofr the SRX expansion boards...that would be a killer..
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    we should stop this mpc vs mv war before someone gets hert.
    Your sayin that you have an mv 8000?

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    Come on, jahrome...this is a "hater" post if I ever saw one. Not like you to do that. lol by the way, this again is not out of disrespect...take it with a grain of salt bro.

    Originally posted by jahrome
    1. The hard drive is tied to some of the most important functions of the MV. Hard drive failure, corrupted data, or erasing an important file can crash the entire unit. It is more like a PC than a hardware sequencer. It even performs start up and shut down like a PC. Since verything hinges on the hard disk, you should view the hard drive as temporary storage and back up everything on CDRW or your PC.
    Well, there is FLash Rom in the unit...This also isn't an mpc...these things rarely if ever crash. The two times I've known people to lose all their data is from user errors, not machine ones. They do not crash. I have frozen mine up ONCE. And I posted it. Actually, I froze it twice, because I repeated the same thing to see if it would freeze again. This was at Version 1.2 and it has never happened since.

    Originally posted by jahrome 2. 8 audio tracks. This is a feature that is getting its props. However, most MIDI sequencers, if not all, that have audio tracks are software on computer platforms (Pro Tools, Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Sonar, etc). These are software based. Audio is recorded to the PCs hard drive. This is extremely efficient and doesn't bogg down the computers RAM. Hard drives today can store more than 200 gigs. The MV-8000 on the other hand stores audio in its RAM, which is maxed at 512 I believe. This RAM is shared by the sequencer, patches, and any samples. A large project can eat up this memory. When it comes to saving such a large project...it can take a very long time to save. In reviewing the unit, I created a projecrt that took 5 minutes to save. I found it far from efficient. I would limit my use of the audio tracks for this reason. I also have to add..one a sample or audio file is stored in RAM, there is no easy way to just delete it like other similar units. You have to go to the project menu and go through an optimize process just to get rid of the sample to free up memory. A simple sample delete key would be nice...just like other samplers that were created from 1988-2002.[/B]
    We have three ways to simply delete samples...what are you alking about. One project and 512 MB of Ram is plenty. And mixdown and all that takes place on the disk. So it is not a matter of RAM. Drum and instrument patches only take little of the RAM and leaves plenty of time on the audio tracks...The mpc's you peddle only have 32 MB of RAM...you got to be kidding. And samples ARE either audio phrases or patches...not audio, patches, and samples...That is misleading. And about the five minutes thing, I think you are exaggerating. But nontheless...EVERYTHING on a mpc takes forever. especially processing samples. These functions are almost instant on the MV. And the wait to load up a project (which loads everything exactly how you left it...sounds, samples and all) and shut down are the trade off with all the stop and go and wait DURING your composition that takes place on an mpc.

    Originally posted by jahrome 3. Being a MIDI crazed maniac..I found the 2 MIDI outputs limiting. I can work around it..but for a unit that is aiming for professional use and claiming to be the center piece of a studio..additional MIDI outputs would be desirable. 4 MIDI outs would be nice [/B]
    Yeah maybe, but you can upgrade to three midi outs plus R-Bus and still come out cheaper than a mpc. And who, that has a lot of gear, doesn't have M Audio midi interfaces...And again, the mpc's you peddle only have two midi outs...

    Originally posted by jahrome 4. It has all the common sync protocols like MMC and MTC, but I would like to have SMPTE as a future option.[/B]
    It does, it just master's it. And doesn't send it. Though it could in an update.

    Originally posted by jahrome 5. It has seperate input connections for sampling turntables and also line sources...but you cannot a turntable and a line source to the unit at the same time, the MV will disable the line inputs. If this is the center piece of my studio, I don't want to connect and disconnect cables all the time. I can work around this by using an external mixer but....[/B]
    (The horror, the horror...disconnecting a cable)
    But what? Now you are just being lazy.

    Originally posted by jahrome 6. The LCD screen is small and is very cumbersome with all the functions that are displayed on it. Since it isn't adjustable, I found myself hunched over the unit. You NEED the VGA option with this unit..no question. It should be a standard not an option.[/B]
    Again, the lcd is much bigger than most units, is the same as on VS recorders, very good, AND IS BIGGER THAN THE mpc's LCD SCREEN THAT YOU PEDDLE!!! And we HAVE a VGA option...not that it is needed...where is this on mpc's?????

    Originally posted by jahrome 7. Time stretching. Roland products may probably have the best real time stretching of any harware synths.samplers, etc. This is the highlight of this unit. A serious tool for remixers and sample-based producers. But, I have to add that if one spends $2000 on this unit, they would most likely own and use a computer in their studio. Most of the new digital audio progranms have this function as well and is as powerful or better.[/B]
    Not everyone likes to do everything on a computer...otherwise, why get an mpc? And well, you are right, it is the best and not existant on a mpc.

    Originally posted by jahrome 8. As a highend unit, I was disappointed that it didn't have ADAT digital ouput option like other workstations in its price class. There is Roland's R-Bus digital protocol and also a converter box for ADAT connection...but I found this Roland's attempt to make more money and keep everything in the family. I don't know of any non-Roland R-bus products.[/B]
    Well, so what? The option can be had with the MV for less than the price of a 4k. Heaven forbid capitalism at work. And as a high end unit, a fully expanded mpc2kxl costs about as much as a MV-8000 and can only do a fraction of what the MV can do...Again, these are the ones you peddle. As a daily observer on eBay, I've seen you try and sell a fully stocked used mpc2kxl for over $1700...that is outrageous and I am sure you did not sell it.

    Originally posted by jahrome 9. The onboard layout of the MV is very similar to other leading sequencers. But int its attempt to be the last sequencer you will ever need, it has added cunbersome menus and keys that perform the same funtion. There are functions that are so simple that it should take minmal navigation to accomplish yet you have to go to another MENU...project optimize, project save, project save as, project delete, project protect, create new project, project load, project back-up to CD, recover project from CD, project rename...I am all projected out. Everything can be combined to a project load or save. To load a project, it will be in two places..either the hard drive or CDRW..no need for additional menus for that..the reason why hardware sequencers have remained popular because producers like being spontaneous....we have enough of Windows/menus in our lives.[/B]
    You are kidding right. There is less menu-gymnastics on these things than on ANY mpc. Period and you know this. I know this and you should know this. All those "project" things are easy and for maitenance purposes. And more concise and organized than ANY mpc. Combursome is using an mpc to get back up to where you left off. And what about all those things do you not understand????? Everything is combined to load or save...the rest is options that aren't existant for convience on other machines. 90% of the functions on a MV are one or two clicks away from the main sequencer screen...usually, the better organized you are with your filing system, the more menu's...like when I look for a patch. This is preferable.

    Originally posted by jahrome 10. The pads are ok. However, if you strike them hard enough, it may trigger sounds on an adjacent pad. Roland added a pad input sensitivity to help you if you have this problem.[/B]
    That is a lie right there. No triggering of neighboring pads AND NO DOUBLE TRIGGERING OF ONE PAD YOU HIT LIKE ON MPC's... The pads are also better than mpcs because they are firm in the middle and not on the edges...whereas the mpc pads are the opposite. WHich makes different velocities, rolls, and crescendo's and what-not easier on the MV by moving your fingers from the outside to the center of the pad. Makes more sense this way than the other way. The responsiveness is much better and more musical on the MV's pads.

    Originally posted by jahrome 11. On-board sounds are not really on-board as in sounds in a sound module. These sounds/patches are stored on the hard drive. Not really a reason to buy jump for joy. Most sequncers today come with sounds on a CD or DVD Rom that can be stored to any medium you like. The sounds are no better or worse than anything I have heard in similar products. However, there is a big support forum intended to help (jump start sales of the MV and related products)users. You can purchase patches/sounds designed for the unit a fair price which is ok. But..most similar units can load just about any commercially available sample CD roms with similar sounds without any or very little tweaking.[/B]
    Huh? It comes with sample disks and a little over 300 MB or keymapped patches stored on its 40 gig hard drive. It gives you something to use right out the box until you get sounds from Roland, third party or compatible format disks...And now you can get mpc's with "onboard sounds" in their advertisments...and nfew if any of which are keymapped instruments...lol

    And you don't need to tweak anything unless you wish. you are making a comment about quality of sounds that is arbitrary at best. They are as good as ANY rompler patch... And I am talking about the stock ones.

    Your opinion on "sound" is skeptical at best. Someone with that many romplers and wants to buy a (one) synthesizer???

    You are reaching with this one, before the mpc4k came out, nwe mpc2kxl's came with a CD-R of samples that you COULDN'T EVEN USE until you got a SCSI CD-Rom drive for your mpc...(not included as it should've been). To even bring up the MV's onboard sounds is absurd and very reaching on your part to make this a longer post.

    Originally posted by jahrome 12. So when it is all said and done, it really comes down to do you really need the bells and whitles this unit have? Do you mind the waiting time it takes for it to perform certain functions? And best..does it fit your budget. [/B]
    Again, the bells and whistles aren't selling points on mpc's? No, they are features that SHOULD'VE been on Version 1.0 of mpc's (and actually worked).

    Budget? I'd argue that a MV is better for the budget than either a 2kxl (even some of the 1700 used ones you sell) and the 4k. ANd you get more for it.

    Waiting times are only at boot up and shut down. Workflow is nonstop once you get going and you're extremely overstation the start-up /shut-down times...

    Everyone, even fanatic mpc users, admit that loading sounds from the HD, and processes for tweaking samples on the mpc take forever. I'd rather the wait be at the beginning and end of a session rather than throughout the session. On the MV, once you got everything loaded...it's there until you decide otherwise. And it'll be that way everytime you turn it on or load another project.

    Originally posted by jahrome You may never need 128 tracks and its attempt to add audio tracks (which would only be useful to me if the tracks could be recorded and streamed to/from its hard drive). Cheaper alternatives exist for real-time time stretching such as Acid (which is software based). Nothing new or original in the MIDI sequencer or the layout of the industry standard 16 pressure sensitive grey pads..[/B]
    NOTHING NEW OR ORIGINAL IN THE SEQUENCER???? How about them audio tracks...how about audio tracks in the pattern sequencer...how about having pattern tracks IN YOUR LINEAR sequencer using bnoth methods at the same time...NOT POSSIBLE ON THE MPC. You know nothing of which you speak. The audio tracks are there for more than recording...but you can create a whole song, vocals and all on 512 MB of RAM. 51 minutes of stereo sampling/102mono sampling...that much audio should be PLENTY for a 4-5 miute song. Gimmie a break...and the features on it are what makes the unit shine...in your opinion it is BUY the mpc that can do NONE of this and is MORE expensive...and then buy CHEAPER alternatives to do what the MV can and thempc can't ON TOP of buying the mpc...THAT is absurd.

    Originally posted by jahrome But, despite its short comings, I have found it to be a worthy addition (not a replacement) to my gear addiction. Especially since Roland is dedicated (for the time being..where is the MC-909 these days)to promoting this item. If Roland supported the MC-909 sampling groove box better that they are now, I would opt for it instead. It can do many of the similar things plus you can install Roland's SRX chips in it. Only if they mad a MV-8000 with slots ofr the SRX expansion boards...that would be a killer.. [/B]
    The MV easily replaces the mpc and all the "cheaper alternatives" you would have to get with the mpc to mae it as functional as the MV-8000.

    The MV-8000 is a sampler/sequencer with a killer sampling/synthesis engine in it...it is NOT a groovebox. I do agree that the mc909 is a great machine that can do some things that BOTH mpc's and MV's can't...but the other way around is true as well. Why does the MV need a rompler in it? DO mpc's need rompler's in them to make them better? No.

    Anyway, I am glad you think it is worthy for your set-up even though you bought it out of marketing more than neccessity (rather than getting the mc-909, which also will add nothing to what you already have like the MV doesn't add much to what you already have)...

    Anyway, here we go again...but you need to learn the machine better before you mke so many inaccurate points about it. In the end, you did get it didn't you.
    ...and so on...

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    Up front, I'm going to say I don't have an MPC, and I don't have an MV. I don't sell either one, and I don't care which one you'll buy.

    I am however a gear junkie, so I try to keep up with all the new gear. Some of the assumptions made in the original post were not in line with the assumptions I've made looking at the same two choices, so I want to add my 2.
    1) the hardrive on this machine can't be any more critical than it is on a PC. Most operations are executed from RAM, so once you are up and running you are OK. It is when you try to access the disk that things could screw up. I agree that precautions should be made, but whether you are writing to hard disk or Zip, or CDRW, you should always back up
    2) I want to get away from my computer. I want one piece of gear I can take to the lake, and work. I want to keep all my project information on one piece of gear. I don't want to have to call up patches and sequences on one piece, then audio tracks and effects in another.
    If deleting one sample is anything like it is on the Fantom-S, Jahrome's got a point. It could be alot easier.
    3)More midi outs is alway cool. More audio outs is always cool, why stop at four?? But if I'm going to be using four midi outs, it would be safe to assume that I'm going to be using four other sound sources. If I am working with an MPC that only has four inputs total, then I am more than likely going to be using a mixer of some sort to feed the line inputs, so I don't have to hook and unhook cables all the time. It would make since to me then, that I don't need the extra inputs for the phono in, since I'm going to be using the mixer anyway. which nullifies point 5.
    4)The only thing that I know of that syncs to SMPTE, is video and tape. I could care less. It would have made sense if either the 4000, or the 8000 would have incorporated wordclock, since all the other stuff in my digital studio sync's to wordclock.
    5) see my point #3
    6) I didn't notice the screen of the MV being any smaller than the one on the MPC. It would be nice if it flipped up. However in my studio, the screen of my AW4416 doesn't flip up. It's the same as the screen on the O2R, which also doesn't flip up, so I guess I'll have to get used to screens not flipping up.
    7)Once again, I don't want a computer in my Studio. I have one, out of necessity, but this feature in the MV/Fantom, reduces my dependency on it. Now that I think of it, the darn screen on my Fantom doesn't flip up either.
    8)How long has ADAT been out??? Why can't some people understand that it is a Standard used in every freekin studio in the country?? It shuoldn't even be a question. Shouldn't be an option.
    9)In my opinion, both products suffer from to many menues. But I do like the word "execute" more than I like the phrase "do it"
    10)That freekin MC-909 doesn't need anymore support. it is just as old as the Fantom-S. Has less real world functionallity, but it is still in production, and sells for 80% of it's original MSRP. used they are still going for over 1G. I wanted to get one, but the Fantom-S got into my price range a lot quicker. Hell the MV is talked about and updated everytime you turn around. But the price continues to come down.

    11) the MPC has it's own effects, it's own filters, and it's own sounds. Sure the Roland can do more, but it doesn't sound like the MPC. I wouldn't pay the premium for that sound, but it's obvious alot of people will. I wouldn't sweat this MV vs MPC thing.

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    all that aside. I think it was a very good an informative post Ja

    You Point-of-view as an MPC user
    I threw in my POV, as a newbie.

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    The same 3 people that posted in my thread.

    we could of just did this in there.

    I dont see the need for an adjustable screen when you can simply connect a monitor.
    Last edited by fivestar; 02-01-2005 at 01:42 PM.

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    I am not sure if you guys know, but FP has a USER REVIEWS section, all organized with rating engine and everything... Long time coding this engine from scratch gotta use it!!



    https://www.futureproducers.com/userreviews_submit.php

    already +400
    PLEASE HELP FP BY CLICKING ON

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    Part 1

    Well, there is FLash Rom in the unit...This also isn't an mpc...these things rarely if ever crash.
    I just posted what can happen if a user made a mistake and erased an important file on the hard drive. Also being that it needs a hard drive to work, it will crash one day. This is a fact about hard drives even in a PC. The MPC series doesn't need a hard drive in order for it to work. I keep here crashing of MPCs coming up. If you are using the current OS of any MPC, your unit should not be crashing. I have an OS that was created in 1996 that is rock solid!



    We have three ways to simply delete samples...what are you talking about.
    Please clairfy these functions. I read the manual and attempted this with no sucess. Only way was the optimize function.

    And mixdown and all that takes place on the disk.
    This is misleading in the Recording since of the word. The MV can save the project to the hard drive. But the saving time is much longer...3-4 x as long as an MPC. In all MY years on using MPCs, it has never taken anymore than a few seconds to save. In nver used a hard drive in the MPC 4000 because I like my files portable and have compiled years of files from other MPCs that work perfectly in the 4000.
    ...The mpc's you peddle only have 32 MB of RAM...you got to be kidding.
    I wouldn't consider what I do peddling. I am the biggest, online, used MPC seller in the world Everyone knows what I deliver. I never made claims or tried to compair the MV to older MPCs. The MPC 4000 is the only unit that should be compaired to it...correction...the MV-8000 is the only unit that should be compaired to the MPC 4000.
    And about the five minutes thing, I think you are exaggerating.
    I am not but next time will time it...Never an issue with any MPC..except the time stretch on the MPC 2000XL is unusable for large sample files.

    EVERYTHING on a mpc takes forever.
    I can make the same claim as you made. You didn't sit down and learn the MPC. This is untrue. I wouldn't use an MPC if it took a long time to do anything. Its a sequencer first and formost. Sampling drums and phrases are next. Anything else is a bonus.

    Yeah maybe, but you can upgrade to three midi outs plus R-Bus and still come out cheaper than a mpc.
    With that upgrade, it is putting it close to the price of the MPC 4000. Again, I am not compairing the MV to a MPC 2000. And who cares about R-bus if you don't have other roland gear with that feature. An ADAT option should be standard or an option.

    It does, it just master's it. And doesn't send it. Though it could in an update.
    Ok than. I will wait until upgrade 4

    (The horror, the horror...disconnecting a cable)
    But what? Now you are just being lazy.
    No. I just don't feel the need to plug and unplug. There should be an audio source select like in am MPC that was created over a decade ago.
    And we HAVE a VGA option...not that it is needed...where is this on mpc's?????
    Yes the MV needs this and everyone who owns one wants one. It free in some countries and hunreds of dollars in others...which it is pushing it close to the price on the MPC 4000. If you have an LCD, you probably have a computer also. The MPC 4000 can be connected to a PC via USB for editing using Akai Sys software.
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    I hate to admitt it but jahrome's arguments are compelling. Makes me think about getting an mpc 4000. but the bottom line is the price, you can get a used mv 8000 for around 1650, i'm not sure what an accurate price is for a used mpc 4000 off of ebay cause everthing there is overpriced.

    The fact that you can use the usb on the 4000 for an external hard drive is also appealing

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    1. You use the 3000...so it is rock solid...but in comparision to the 4k...that thing still crashes on many people all the time... You keep hearing it because it happens.

    2. Explaining the delete is longer to type out than to read in the manuals that came with V 1.2, 2.0, and 3.0 But basically you do this when you delete a patch, from your sample list, and yes, optomize. Easy.

    3. Actually no, when you do mixdown, you mixdown to the disk.

    Also, do have you maxed out the memory of a mpc4k and loaded it back up after a shutdown? Eternity, Timestretch? Eternity... And on your 3k...have a lot of samples (and long samples) to load up with only 32 MB of RAM? I didn't think so. The more data, the longer load up.

    4. You peddle your product. I peddle my patches...Why is "peddle" a bad word to you?

    5. I did sit down to learn the 2kxl and had it for two years along with TWO Z8 samplers...Tried the 4k but I thought it was a heap of dung...so I stuck with the 2kxl until the ROland MV-8000 came out and freed me from what, IN MY OPINION (key words), I'd call medeocrity. Z8's and the mpc's take longer than the MV. Period.

    6. I don't think ADAT is the future...it is a hanger-on's option.

    7. Who cares...

    8. The point is that the mpc will at some point NEED the computer...the MV doesn't...but why be limiting? AKsys is convoluted at best and most people I know don't bother with it...Why? Because it is convoluted and they try to ignore their computers, which is wierd to me though I kinda understand it, when they are producing.

    Anyway, looking forward to Part 2. And Jahrome, the MV WILL win you over. Considered yourself cursed. lol
    ...and so on...

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