How to gain stage your mic pre and interface

Da Youngsta said:
What if it goes into the red just a little bit but not much while recording vocals? Is that bad?
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Actually this depends on what your talking about. What red? Where? Do you understand that this is the whole point of this guide? Over 0db on your analog gear isn't a big deal. But over 0db on your analog out to your digital in is a big deal. Over 0db on your digital gear while recording is a bigger deal. Over 0db on your digital gear while mixing can be bad but rarely is depending on how the software is coded. You need to read the guide and understand the difference between dbVu and dbFS.
 
I'm talking about the red on the VU meter. I used the plugin to gauge my previous recordings and some of the levels throughout a verse would tap into the red although generally staying in the black. It does this as well on the physical VU meter on my preamp. I asked is it really that bad because I want to keep levels without them being too low after recording. I record rap vocals but even if I keep the gain levels decent it can still sometimes hit the red. FS meters never go into the red while recording and clip lights on my preamp & interface never come on.

I'm still learning the engineering side of music so excuse me if my questions sound silly.
 
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Morning star i was wondering if you could tell me what is so special about Newman mics, and are the entry level ones good buys?
 
jsantillan said:
Morning star i was wondering if you could tell me what is so special about Newman mics, and are the entry level ones good buys?
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Actually they are spelled Neumann, and pronounced Noi-man. And they are great sounding but for the money I'll take a Bock Audio any day.

Here is a list of my favorite mics.

SM7b - Never sounds bad. Best mic for the money period. Needs a good mic pre to push it though.
C414 - Great mic but can sound brittle and harsh with the wrong pre or source.
Bock Audio 195 - Sounds like a U87 but 1/3rd the price and sounds "better".
Bock Audio 151/251 - Sounds like a Elam 251. One of the greatest mics ever made.
M-Audio Sputnik - Great deal. Sounds like vintage mics and hangs with them for a great price.
Miktek CV4 - Great new mic on the market. I've never used it but the samples I've heard are great.
Blue Blueberry - Very sweet and airy. Amazing for female vocals or that soft but crispy sound.

These are the only mic's I'd buy because they cover most bases and sound great doing it. The SM7b is the first mic I think anyone with a good mic pre should buy. Then look for a mic with the specific sound your looking for. Warm go for the Sputnik or CV4. Airy go for the Blueberry. Sweet top that's just magic go for the Bock 195.

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------
Da Youngsta said:
I'm talking about the red on the VU meter. I used the plugin to gauge my previous recordings and some of the levels throughout a verse would tap into the red although generally staying in the black. It does this as well on the physical VU meter on my preamp. I asked is it really that bad because I want to keep levels without them being too low after recording. I record rap vocals but even if I keep the gain levels decent it can still sometimes hit the red. FS meters never go into the red while recording and clip lights on my preamp & interface never come on.

I'm still learning the engineering side of music so excuse me if my questions sound silly.
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If your talking about a Vu meter plugin going in the red a little then that's ok. If you daw meters (FS) are in the red that is very bad if its pre-fader monitoring or monitoring input. But it's best to never have any meter record in the red.
 
Mic selection

thanks! I will do some research on the models you named i appreciate your help. I am currently running an MXL V69 through a presonus blue tube its the one that has dual paths, solid state and tube. As well as a blue spark Mic and a couple of the AKG perception pencil mics. I am using pro fire 2626 and so far no problems.. I am tracking vocals and your gain stage tip really helped since i was using the track meter to stage the gain while totally ignoring the built in VU meter on the presonus since i thought the track meter was doing the same job. Now i am not distorting at all. great tip! I love the sound of tube mics could you tell me whic of the ones you mentioned might come close to the V69 which i am pleased with but Just to have as another tool/ option.
 
There are only a handful of mics I like.

Sputnik, Blueberry, Miktek CV4, Bock Audio 195, and the SM7b. They cover all bases. There are a couple of more that are worth looking at. Baby bottle, AT4040, C414, ect.
 
Morning star i have been doing my research on the mics you recommended and budget is now a factor. I found the Sputnik on line for 399.00 and the little brother to the C414 the c214 which is more in my range and from what i have read the 214 has the same capsule and specs except the 414 has the multi pattern feature and therefore a secondary capsule i believe the technical term is. I think the c214 will be my next Mic but would like your opinion. On another note the Sputnik has awesome reviews but i will pass on it for now since i already have a tube Mic the Mxlv69 that i am happy with for now but i found a local shop selling a gently used M audio luna Mic its the I not the II model for 100 bucks with a 30 day cash back option if it doesn't perform to my satisfaction. I do know that the luna has some qualities of the Sputnik of course its not a tube or multi pattern but the feta capsule caught my attentionsince its featured on some high end Mics. I would buy the lunar as an addition to my tools and still be looking at buying the C214 based on your recommendation and my continued research. Thanks in advance for your help.
 
I don't ever recommend the C214. It's a mic the sounds great for the right job but for the wrong job it sounds very thin and brittle. You need a mic that's going to sound great 90% of the time.

This is where the Shure SM7b shines. If you have a decent preamp to push it, it's the best mic under $1,000. Period. If your using a low-end preamp or stock soundcard preamps look at the Blue Baby Bottle, Bluebird, or the AT4040. Also there are always new mics coming out. So if you can audition some do that. You never really know how a mic sounds until you hear your own voice through it.

Also that is a great deal for the Sputnik. It's a great backup mic, for situations where your go-to mic isn't doing the job.

I use three mics. Shure SM7b, FET mic, and a Tube mic. I'm currently shopping for a new FET mic. My next mic will be the Bock Audio 195. It's amazing.
 
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Morning star i am using a pre songs blue tube dual path and running it through a profire 2626 my budget is 500.00 so the blue Mic are looking like a good option.. What do you think of the audio luna for 100.00 bucks i mentioned?
 
I jus want to say I joined this group because of morning_star. GREAT ADVICE! I have to say it again GREAT! ADVICE!! WOW! I have been in the professional business for 8 yrs and have never heard of this. Morning Star I am going to go buy all project studio equipment because of this advice you gave Im serious. I have been working on a SSL 4000 for some 5 years and have never played round with home studio/mbox/ cheap mic's and the whole home mixer game. ALL BECAUSE OF GAIN STAGING & HEADROOM! I never could get into I use so much headroom in my SSL for years. I jus simply couldnt get into ever! I use pro tools on the SSL never heard of trim We use Heat on our HD systems never trim because we always have head room. I know all bout the dBu Metering and its range from -24 dB to +24 dB and in digital dBFS Full Scale. I know exactly what your talking bout digital 0 in a DAW is +4 in a console its over +14 extra gain THAS NOT NEEDED ITS TOO HOT!!!!!! NO HEADROOM!! Those of you young eng and novice "dont mean that in a derogatory way" PLEASE LISTEN TO MORNING STAR!! He is so correct -10 or -18 IS NOT TO LOW!!! I REPEAT -18 IS NOT TO LOW! Our ears have been tricked and trained to listen to loud. Our eyes have been tricked to think -10 is to quiet and 0 (which is really +24 on a dB meter) is what we need its a lie a big fat lie! Its like someone painting a car blue when it was originally black and their telling you it was originally a big fat damn lie! This is how we got to the loudness wars in the first place. Old saying "Just because the lights green dosent mean you can speed". Just cuz we got all those extra dB's up there, extra headroom dosent mean its good to use ALL OF IT!
 
There are so many contradictions when reading up on the right way to gain stage when recording digital audio it gets a bit confusing which guide to use and trust. I like these tips from morning but then I read another guide on gearslutz about how to set proper levels (gain staging) when recording digital audio which contradicts what morning star is say and both seems like correct information at the same time lol. Check out what I'm talking about and you guys decide for yourself which guide to trust out of the two. You have to open the document "Levels in Digital Audio" in a pdf reader like adobe reader. Give me some feedback because I really want to know the correct way to get the best out of my converters.

Guide to Levels in Digital Audio - Gearslutz.com
 
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