propellerheads are soon gonna announce something new/ The Reason 5 thread

[[F_or_DEAF]]

if live doestn have cv control then i have no use for it. that's the hidden secret to reason.

yeah...

but route all your cv's in Reason, and then ReWire it into a Ableton instrument track / rack and stack on VSTi's too!

one key can do A LOT of damage...might take a 'lil cpu power to run a POWER track like that, but the end result would be BIBLICAL.

(again, i'd have to see it to believe it though!)

 

[mrgibbs]

it could be but if that shit tax's my cpu just to make one crazy patch its not worth is when half of the hits on thats out where made on less

 

[[F_or_DEAF]]

If you have an Instrument Rack with a vst, a Live device, and a Reason Combinator, you could set the key ranges so that only the lower half of your keyboard plays the vst. The middle plays the Live device, and the top plays the Reason Combinator

you are awere that lying is a sin...right???

JUST KIDDING...

again...i'd have to see this done...i REALLY wanna believe you man...i'm serious.

 

[kb420]

yeah...

but route all your cv's in Reason, and then ReWire it into a Ableton instrument track / rack and stack on VSTi's too!

one key can do A LOT of damage...might take a 'lil cpu power to run a POWER track like that, but the end result would be BIBLICAL.

(again, i'd have to see it to believe it though!)

That's true, but look at it like this: Live's devices aren't that hard on the cpu. Some of them are more intense than Reason because the have High Quality Anti Aliasing which just isn't even an option in Reason. That's gonna take up more cpu cycles. For the most part, it's not an issue. For pads, I'll start out with a Live device like Operator, and then stack it with a vst or Reason, or both and just watch the cpu meter. When I'm building a song, sometimes I'll wait until I'm done composing and then I'll start stacking sounds with the Racks so the increased cpu load doesn't affect latency.

None of that's really been an issue since I have quad core cpu.

For sound design, Live is almost impossible to beat when you have Reason, Live Suite, and any vst instruments and effects you want. I'm amazed at some of the sounds that I come up with just layering different things.

One more thing, I never Rewire one device in Reason into Live. It's always a Combinator. The reason why I do that is simple. If you were to go to a music store and check out a hardware keyboard, you would probably love the preset sounds on it. They were made by professionals. What you may not have known is that all of the presets are probably running through anywhere from 2 to 8 different effects. I have a Motif ES, and all of the presets are running through at least 6 effects. So when I open a Reason device, no matter what it is, I put it in a Combinator and throw a reverb, chorus, eq, whatever in there with it to beef it up before it even gets to Live. I may just use the Combinator preset sounds. Either way, I only Rewire Combinators.

 

[[F_or_DEAF]]

it could be but if that shit tax's my cpu just to make one crazy patch its not worth is when half of the hits on thats out where made on less

yeah...but that's when you bounce it & turn that patch into a ReFill! (just an idea)

...and the "tax" is history.

---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------

I only Rewire Combinators.

man...i'm almost sold...

now i just gotta SEE it be done!

 

[kb420]

you are awere that lying is a sin...right???

JUST KIDDING...

again...i'd have to see this done...i REALLY wanna believe you man...i'm serious.

I know lying is a sin. I did 11 years of Catholic school. I wish I could show you. You just have to take my word for it. I like Live's promo video with Jazzy Jeff. On that video he said, "if people knew what this program can do, this would be the program that everybody would use." I just laughed when I saw that. I know where he's coming from. It's actually kinda hard to explain some of the madness that can be done with Live.


When I was playin' around with people on this forum about Reason is limited because it can't host vst's, a lot of people got mad. I wasn't really trying to make them mad. Like I said, I'm a Reason user too. But when it comes to making your own sounds, I can do everything that Reason can do, and layer it with Live and vst instruments and effects.

---------- Post added at 01:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 AM ----------

it could be but if that shit tax's my cpu just to make one crazy patch its not worth is when half of the hits on thats out where made on less

I'm not gonna even argue with you there. You're right. But, a lot of people say that hardware sounds better than software. The reason why is because hardware's voice architecture is heavily based on effects. These effects in hardware have dedicated processors. So they don't know the meaning of "taxing" a cpu. If you have a quad core cpu, you can make sounds that are 10x fatter than any hardware. Seriously.

There's ways around heavy cpu loads. Like I said before, I compose with simple sounds. Then what I'll do is actually change my audio card settings when I'm in the mixing phase. I'll intentionally turn the latency up. That makes things a lot easier on the cpu. Then I can stack and layer sounds. Add in effects. Do everything to enhance and polish the track up.

 

[_SG_]

I know lying is a sin. I did 11 years of Catholic school. I wish I could show you. You just have to take my word for it.

Aren't you just arming multiple tracks to record? What's so hard to believe about that?

 

[kb420]

Aren't you just arming multiple tracks to record? What's so hard to believe about that?

No, with an Instrument Rack, all of that is on one track. So you can layer Live devices, Reason Combinators, and vst's all in ONE Instrument Rack in ONE midi track.

 

[Darko]

hmmm...that article was published 3 years ago and ain't no one dropped a video yet of it being done???

hmmm...

...still gotta see it to believe it.

i mean really, ya'll makin' it sound like you can basically have a combinator (Reason Combinator) INSIDE of a combinator (Ableton Rack)...all in ONE track.

There's videos, I just didn't feel like looking for it. Ableton has its own youtube channel, so start there. Search ableton racks. Check out this dude too https://www.youtube.com/user/oubliettezombie. I don't remember if he uses instrument racks, but he layers sounds like a mo fo.

I'm amazed at some of the sounds that I come up with just layering different things.

Got any music online?

 

[kb420]

Got any music online?

I haven't put anything online in a minute. I have a bunch of stuff that I started working on that I just haven't finished. I was working on something a few a weeks ago that's almost done. I'll try to finish that this weekend. So far, it has at least three different instrument racks with at least 3 instruments per rack. My problem is, as soon as I get close to finishing something, I start going crazy with the effects and layers!!!

I'll post something new soon.

To me, this is just a hobby, but I hate posting anything that I don't feel sounds like it was done by a professional.

 

[Darko]

lol, yeah I feel ya

 

[_SG_]

No, with an Instrument Rack, all of that is on one track. So you can layer Live devices, Reason Combinators, and vst's all in ONE Instrument Rack in ONE midi track.

Oh I see, I just tried it out, I can stack the vst and rewire's input but when I try to put a live instrument ontop of the external instrument it deletes the external source. But I can definitely stack the vst on it.

Yeah you know I do have some issues with live's sequencer but when it comes to routing and stacking live is great, alot of people like to claim reason is the easiest for that, maybe it is, but live is certainly no slouch in that area either.

 

[chelemasty]

Some of them are more intense than Reason because the have High Quality Anti Aliasing which just isn't even an option in Reason.

Funny how you mentioned that, coz I onced talk to a guy that the anti-aliasing feature of Live is just a marketing gimmick coz he said he could still hear some aliasing in it.

But what I noticed about it, is that it just sound so thin for my liking, that you'll still need a lot of effects to get what you need coz it just doesn't sound what you've hoped for, it's like it has another language. Also the GUI is just not for me. This is the reason why, if I use live, I use Thor and Sylenth.

 

[kb420]

Oh I see, I just tried it out, I can stack the vst and rewire's input but when I try to put a live instrument ontop of the external instrument it deletes the external source. But I can definitely stack the vst on it.

Yeah you know I do have some issues with live's sequencer but when it comes to routing and stacking live is great, alot of people like to claim reason is the easiest for that, maybe it is, but live is certainly no slouch in that area either.

If you are stacking your sounds in an instrument rack, don't drop the instruments on top of each other. Drop them on the bottom of the list.

In that picture, you can see the first chain has an instrument called "Analog Saw". If you want to layer a vst, drag and drop it below that. If you want to layer a Reason Device, from the instruments folder grab a "External Instrument" and drop that on the bottom of the list and then route Reason to it.


Here is an empty Instrument Rack Chain List:

 

[_SG_]

If you are stacking your sounds in an instrument rack, don't drop the instruments on top of each other. Drop them on the bottom of the list.



In that picture, you can see the first chain has an instrument called "Analog Saw". If you want to layer a vst, drag and drop it below that. If you want to layer a Reason Device, from the instruments folder grab a "External Instrument" and drop that on the bottom of the list and then route Reason to it.


Here is an empty Instrument Rack Chain List:

Duh, thanks. Man I am far too rusty on live.

 

[kb420]

Funny how you mentioned that, coz I onced talk to a guy that the anti-aliasing feature of Live is just a marketing gimmick coz he said he could still hear some aliasing in it.

But what I noticed about it, is that it just sound so thin for my liking, that you'll still need a lot of effects to get what you need coz it just doesn't sound what you've hoped for, it's like it has another language. Also the GUI is just not for me. This is the reason why, if I use live, I use Thor and Sylenth.

I don't understand what you mean. When you say it sounds thin, are you talking about anti aliasing, or do you mean Live in general?

 

[chelemasty]

I don't understand what you mean. When you say it sounds thin, are you talking about anti aliasing, or do you mean Live in general?

I just mean the synths in Live. It's like, you'll need a lot of effects to be satisfied. That's just me though. Also the GUI of Operator, is somewhat counter-intuitive for me. And the feel of the OSC's octave is just different.

 

[kb420]

I just mean the synths in Live. It's like, you'll need a lot of effects to be satisfied. That's just me though. Also the GUI of Operator, is somewhat counter-intuitive for me. And the feel of the OSC's octave is just different.

Well, as far as the synths are concerned, the next time you open a Live synth, don't open it directly. Look for it under Instrument Racks. The reason I'm saying this is because if you take it from the Instrument Rack, it will sound more like a hardware synth preset because it will already have effects on it.

Almost everything but a true analog synth will sound thin and dry without effects. That's why no hardware workstations have sounds in it without effects.

As far as Operator is concerned, I understand what you mean. The GUI is kinda plain. Reason and Live are the exact opposites when it comes to GUI. Reason likes to give bright colorful graphics and pictures to look at. Live is no nonsense. That being said, I actually bought some videos on sound design for Operator.

http://nickstutorials.com/products/sound-design-in-ableton-live-operator

That's the only I could feel comfortable with Operator. The reason that the OSC's probably sounded different to you is because Operator isn't a Subtractive Synth. It's an FM (Frequency Modulation) synth. The OSC you were trying to tweak was probably being modulated by another operator. FM isn't as easy to learn how to tweak as a subtractive or even an additive synth is. Operator is actually a little misleading because even though it is an FM synth, it still has a filter section. The most popular FM synth of all time is the Yamaha DX7, and it didn't have a filter section at all:

http://www.maths.abdn.ac.uk/~bensondj/dx7/images/dx7_3.jpg

 

[chelemasty]

Well, as far as the synths are concerned, the next time you open a Live synth, don't open it directly. Look for it under Instrument Racks. The reason I'm saying this is because if you take it from the Instrument Rack, it will sound more like a hardware synth preset because it will already have effects on it.

Almost everything but a true analog synth will sound thin and dry without effects. That's why no hardware workstations have sounds in it without effects.

As far as Operator is concerned, I understand what you mean. The GUI is kinda plain. Reason and Live are the exact opposites when it comes to GUI. Reason likes to give bright colorful graphics and pictures to look at. Live is no nonsense. That being said, I actually bought some videos on sound design for Operator.

http://nickstutorials.com/products/sound-design-in-ableton-live-operator

That's the only I could feel comfortable with Operator. The reason that the OSC's probably sounded different to you is because Operator isn't a Subtractive Synth. It's an FM (Frequency Modulation) synth. The OSC you were trying to tweak was probably being modulated by another operator. FM isn't as easy to learn how to tweak as a subtractive or even an additive synth is. Operator is actually a little misleading because even though it is an FM synth, it still has a filter section. The most popular FM synth of all time is the Yamaha DX7, and it didn't have a filter section at all:

http://www.maths.abdn.ac.uk/~bensondj/dx7/images/dx7_3.jpg

Yeah, I'm totally aware of what you said. It's just I don't use presets in Live, I always make my synth sounds from scratch with effects, and using operator will need lots of effects for me to get the sound that I want that will turn out to be a CPU hog, and the bummer part of having lots of effects on a rack is the long dragging it sideways, wish it was scrollable. That's why bought Sylenth for that purpose if I don't feel like rewiring it with Reason.

 

[kb420]

Yeah, I'm totally aware of what you said. It's just I don't use presets in Live, I always make my synth sounds from scratch with effects, and using operator will need lots of effects for me to get the sound that I want that will turn out to be a CPU hog, and the bummer part of having lots of effects on a rack is the long dragging it sideways, wish it was scrollable. That's why bought Sylenth for that purpose if I don't feel like rewiring it with Reason.

That's cool. When I'm not using Reason, I use Rapture a lot. I also use Analog. Analog is a two oscillator Subtractive synth (just like Subtractor). The GUI is just like Operator, but the sounds are different.

Sylenth and Operator are two completely different animals. It would be difficult if not impossible to get the sounds you have in Sylenth out of Operator.