What tonearm height do you use for your Ortofon Concordes?

Frank,

What IS the HEIGHT (in MM) of a Ortofon (Concorde)Nightclub cartridge? I couldn't seem to find that in the specs section of Ortofon's website...

Thanx,
A
 
Last edited:
electronik...I assume you're asking because you want to adjust TA height. If so, don't go by that figure (which is approx 17mm).
Adjust the height, so that when looking from the side, the tonearm is parallel to the record surface. This is w/the stylus in the record groove and any mats you use, in place.
 
I've got a quick question. What's the difference between "frequency range" and "frequency response"?

-Gene
 
Gene...that's a good question and often the 2 are mistakenly used as one in the same. (certainly no harm in this)
Strictly speaking frequency range is the "looser" overall capability of a cart's performance. For example : 20hz - 45khz +/- 5db

Frequency response, on the other hand is a "tighter " and more realistic description and should be the one used when comparing different carts. For example : 20hz - 20khz +/- 2db.
Of course the +/- figure is deviation from a perfecrtly flat response.

Using the same comparison in power amps, as an example, it's like saying 200w per ch at 5% distortion vs 100w per ch at 1% distortion. The 1% figure is a more realistic indication of the amps capability.
 
Thanks. The reason why I asked is because the Ortofon site lists the Scratch carts as having a frequency response of 20-15.000 Hz + 2 / - 3 dB and the DJS list 20-18.000 Hz + 3 / - 2 dB. That confused me a bit because you said that other than the output and tracking ability the two carts are the same.

-Gene
 
Gene....first go back to pg6 and read my post @ 1/5/03 5:15p

Tried to explain there why I had maybe simplified thing a little too much, trying to avoid an "audiophile" type of discussion. But that's OK because it's good that DJ's want to know more details.

Now to the DJS vs Scratch specs. The name kind of says why because again it's a matter of application. Note 2 of the other specs on the Ortofon site, compliance and tracking force. The Scratch sacrifices a little bit of frequency response as a trade off for holding the groove better under heavy scratch use.

Compliance spec of the DJS = 9 vs 6 f/the Scratch
Tracking force = 2-4 g f/DJS (3 recommended} vs 3-5 g f/Scratch (4 recommended)

Compliance refers to the stiffness of the suspension and 6 is less stiff than 9, which also translates to the higher tracking force. (and no , that does not mean more record wear-well maybe just a little)

Again, don't apply too much weight to the printed specs.
 
Infradead....no, that is certainly not true ! They may not last a lifetime, but unless the interior coils are somehow physicaly damaged or shorted by corrosion, the cartridge body should give many years of service. The stylus is the ONLY part that wears and needs to be replaced. To say that the body should be replaced after 3, or whatever number of stylus replacements, is just plain ludicrous !!
 
thanks for the prompt answer!!

well that's what i figured just wanted to hear from the horse's mouth.....

scandelous salesmen...

shame shame shame
 
Hi Frank, just one question from me also if its ok.
I have purchased OM Pro S just 1 to try, and i was shocked how they wear (cue burn) my records. I dont scratch but do alot of cueing.
After about 40 cues level of the beat drops and loud noise appear over the top end. Tonarm is set at recomended 4g, i also tryed at minimmum 3g, same result but a bit slower.
why is this doing this? I have read in your early post about diameter of diamond tip. Is this because of that
Also when its playing in the inner groove and i press on the needle with my finger it makes a shhhhhhhhh in the groove.
I know i dont supose to do it, but my stanton 505 in the same situation is different.
I am disappointed and will probably return it to the store. What about other types, PRO, DJ,SCRATCH? will they do the same?
the most important thing for me is a cue burn issue, so should i try other models.(with less diameter)
Please feel free to answer in audiophile language.:-)
Thank you.
 
George,

I'm assuming that you rebalanced the arm to zero when you switched from the Stanton ? If not, the TF setting will be way off.

Also, TA height correct ?, Anti Skate set to zero ? Mounted the cart using a alignment gauge ? If yes to all of the above then the broader tip radius of the Pro S stylus may be your problem (shouldn't be though) One of the things these styli are known for is that they do NOT burn records.

Then yes, I would suggest going w/any of the other models.
BTW, you mention 40 cues...I assume you don't mean consecutively, one after the other on the same record ? And, of course, pressing down w/your finger is a no , no as it throws the tracking angle of the stylus way out of range.
Frank
 
George T. said:
I am disappointed and will probably return it to the store. What about other types, PRO, DJ,SCRATCH? will they do the same?
the most important thing for me is a cue burn issue, so should i try other models.(with less diameter)
Please feel free to answer in audiophile language.:-)
Thank you.
Click to expand...

How about trying something that will not have the sound of an Ortofon Nightclub (but still warm and very nice) and will wear your records less than a lot of other dj needles on the market. I'm talking about a Shure M44G that can very well handle gentle hands at 0.75g pressure (imagine that on an Ortofon needle... mad skipping) and can handle some extreme scratching at 1.5g pressure (1g for mixing without any skipping is more than enough). I almost did not believe these values after having 4-5g's on my old Stantons... Record wear is really really low... I would say the lowest there is in the dj needle world. And the sound won't disappoint you, on the contrary...


ps. the cart is only 58eurs and the replacement needle is 29eur... if you find me a cart/needle that cheap and with all these nice characteristics, enlight me.
 
Last edited:
Yes, i did set it all up correctly.
I am talking about 40 cues one after another. I understand that the record and the needle temperature will rise rapidly but it sould handle it anyway.should it ?
Now i think that Shure M44g is a better choice for me, but i still thinking of ortofon scratch, because i like concorde and i am after a better quality than shure. Frank, is the sound quality of CC scratch the aprox. same as PRO S?
And how lower is the record wear?
I have tryed them in my local shop and i didnt notice any rapid cue burn. I am thinking that because they are for scratching they require less tracking and wear much less, is it correct?
Or should i go for DJs? I dont scratch but cue alot so count it like scratching. I am using 1210s. playing house music.
Thank you
George
P.S. tanks DJ Corea for your recomendation, i am cosidering M44G;s because their price is VERY Good over here in UK (J75 pair) they have an impresive tracking force also.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello Frank!

It's great to have somebody from Ortofon actually answering questions! But.....

Ortofon said:
6. I would also mention that price differences among models don't necessarily reflect a "best" or "better" choice. It should always be an application choice. For instance, an elliptical stylus is the choice when better sound quality is desired for use in a quite environment or when transcribing records over to tape (or dare I say it, CD). It certainly isn't the best choice for
use in a noisy club, on an unstable platform, aggressively back cueing/scratching.
Click to expand...

This is all very confusing for me. I've just bought Concorde NIGHT CLUD E (Elliptical).

You're saying that elliptical is a bad choice for a night club.
But why did Ortofon call the damn thing Night Club?

If they called it Ortofon Bedroom E, things would have been much clearer to me! Is this some joke from Ortofon's Marketing department? I figured if it says Night Club it would be at home in a Night Club.
Furthermore, there is another thread about spherical and elliptical styli. Everybody seems to agree on the fact that elliptical styli damage your records much more than spherical styli do. So the advice is to not back cue or scratch with elliptical styli.
Can you believe this? This is a DJ forum isn't? How many DJ's are out there who don't back cue? :cry:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't think elliptical styli damage your records more than spherical. In fact, I believe it to be the opposite. Either way, elliptical sounds better and that's what counts for me.
 
O.k. Mattu so you're one of the few people who believe elliptical wear less that spherical.

Could you explain a bit more about your mixing style?
Do you scratch or back cue a lot? Can you name your favorite DJ or a DJ who's style is very similar to yours.

I scratch ocassionaly. And I want to keep doing this. But I don't want my records to wear!

I know Dave Clark uses Ortofon Gold (elliptical), and he definitely scratches a lot with them. Although I don't think he cares about record wear at all.
 
The difference in wear isn't THAT flagrant. It's not because you are using an E stylus that your record will be dead after three spins. In average use you won't notice that much difference.

What you must pay attention to is to stick to the method you started with. Don't continuously switch over from E to S to E to S all the time, because that WILL definately be more than noticeable.

Just be sure to set it up right, and stick to it. And don't worry too much after that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top