Mixing low end (drop, synth bass, kick) together. Roll off <30 Htz?

[florida_power]

Most of my songs incorporate this:

909 style Kick
Beffy 808 style kick (drop)
Bassline (synth bass)

or

Kick
Synth Bass

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I always thought it was good practice to "roll off" anything below 30 Htz on all low end instruments. Here's how I would mix my two examples:

909 Kick--------------Roll off around 60
Beffy 808 Drop-------Roll off 30
Bassline---------------Roll off around 60

This gives headroom for the drop, allowing the kick and bassline to do what they do without ungly "fultter" if the pitches variate from the drop.

Kick--------------------Roll off at 40
Synth Bass------------Roll off at 30

This is a version where I allow the synth to be the "beef" of the low end.

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What do you all think about that as a general template for mixing low end with that type of set-up? Aditionally, my engineer said he generally doesn't roll off anything on bases or 808's but I always thought it was good practice to cut anything below 30 Htz on such? Most notably 808 kicks and synth bases.

 

[scrapheaper]

Why don't you listen to see if you can hear anything at 30Hz before deciding whether to cut it or not?

Or use a spectrum analyzer if you can't hear anything.

It might be appropriate or it might not. Can you hear a difference if you do it? Can you see a difference in the spectrum?

 

[Laureat Ramadani]

I think it is important to know your room and speakers

You could be listening music on your car, phones or whatever, and when you mixing if you go on different place with different tools you will lose the idea of whst is good because it sounds different there, different place, different speakers

I dont even have acoustic treatment on place i work with my beats and mixing but i am used with that room, i know it, and i trust what i do there, i would feel uncomfortable to mix or make beats on whstdoever special profrssional studio becsuse it sounds diffrrrnt there, i dont know it , and makes me confused with wtf i am doing ,

So its all about to know your room, to know your speakers, and you know how the low end of other songs feels like as a reference, and so you trust the decision that you make

But you can also use something like advanced eq, that pro q, looks cool, and you can see how the low end has been approached of the other song by listening them in your daw, and you somehow make same peak leveles
And this can be done even with no speakers at all, you know becauuse you csn ser on the spectrum

 

[Milo Burke]

This is an area I'm hoping to grow in as well. I'm looking forward to reading other answers.

I've just recently gotten in the habit of rolling off higher instruments even when I'm not sure they need it. Just to keep them from mucking up the bass. I've always wanted to keep the sub bass intact, since those frequencies can be so fun and exciting. But ... past a point, it's kind of hard to tell if a kick that is solid down to 44 Hz also has content a full octave lower at 22 Hz. If those sub sub bass frequencies wouldn't be missed, it's probably better to cut them out. It might provide some clarity to the rest of the bass, and it would increase headroom for the entire mix - either louder finished product or the same volume with more sonic integrity: always a good thing, right?


As for doing it by ear, I definitely approve of that approach. However, I bet very, very few on this forum are set up to do it right.

Requirements to do this:
- Subs that can actually go that low with strength
- Subs that can actually go that low with even frequency response
- Subs that can produce tuneful bass rather than generic rumble
- Subs carefully positioned to carefully balance bass peaks and suck-outs that every room has
- Multiple subs spaced so as not to excite those same peaks and suck-outs
- Heavy bass trapping to keep bass reflections from mucking up your frequency curve
- Evenly designed bass trapping, likely with tuned Helmholtz resonators, for even low frequency decay
- A calibrated measurement mic and room sweep software to show you what your low-end reproduction actually looks like
- A sub-only parametric equalizer to cut any peaks that the measurement mic shows still exist

Most studios have abysmal bass. And most engineers don't realize it. I'd guess that most engineers simply have never heard it right. Which is partly why the mastering engineers that do hear it right fight with correcting wonky low end in nearly every session. And since not all mastering engineers do, and not all people send out to mastering engineers anyway, that's why half the songs in your music library seem to have bass that is too loud or too quiet, at specific frequencies or in general.


I'm halfway up that list of requirements. I built four subwoofers with two 12" drivers in each. They're a dipole design, which means super precise, tuneful bass. But it also means they're not very efficient or loud, particularly at sub bass frequencies. I recently, finally got proper amplification for them: four channels (one per cabinet) of 350 watts each, and four channels of parametric EQ. I bought the material to build epic bass traps, but I haven't built them yet. Delaying because I'm moving soon. Because the bass traps aren't built, I haven't even used the calibrated measurement mic I bought, so I'm really not sure how deep the subs go with power, and which frequencies I should cut with EQ.

And since I share walls, I know that my ear estimates totally different bass levels if I"m listening at 60 dB or 70 dB or 85 dB. Which is entirely determined by what time of day it is, how critical the work is, and how bassy the project is. Due to the Fletcher-Munson Curve, that means I'm hearing substantially different balances of bass to treble according to the volume. It's really tough to know where things sit. =\ I sincerely hope I can make more noise after the move.

 

[florida_power]

Yes, I remember going to a mastering engineer once in Orlando, FL in 2006. It's all this guy specialized in and his room was breathtaking. The first thing he asked us was if there were any unwanted artifacts pops or distortion in the mixes- he was concerned with damage to the system. He was looking for the songs to be tracked out which we didn't know- our normal studio engineer sent us with the tracks bounced down. Nonetheless, this mastering engineer worked his magic! Oddly enough, when we left we noticed the mixes sounded weak in the car. We found out the final mixes weren't limited. We wen't to another studio and the engineer put a limiter of all the tracks. We left and for the first time heard our music with what one would call "industry standard"; it was a beautiful thing!

We had one song that we "slowed down". Subsequently, the bass was probably going extra low so we put a cut 20 filter on it (which is how they mix all slowed down music-I'm sure.)

Anyway, all of my instruments including drums and synths, I roll off below 60 besides my bass and kick. Any maybe every now and then, a sound with some warm heart to it like deep strings. But I would most def roll it off to around 50 because and instrument with some "deep heart" to it will be the one to muddy the low mix if not addressed.

Oh and for anyone to get an idea, the mastering engineer charged $400 for about the 20 track album we had. He said he charges $400 for 16 usually but I guess since they were bounced down with hours of good premixing already, it was short work for him (around 1 1/2 hours we were there). Respectively, this was 2006, good recording studios were $40-50 hour in our area- I pay 60$ hour now.