Legit Question: When Searching for Monitors, what/when/where/how?

[cosmicgirlee99]

When you are making a decision on what speaker monitors to purchase for your home studio, where do you go to find out about them, and eventually purchase them? Please be as explicit as possible in your answer.

1. What websites do you go to learn about monitors?
2. Do you go to a store and listen to them before making your decision?
3. Is price really an issue? (This question applies to beginners and pros)
4. Any other info you want to share?

Thanks, just trying to know what people are actually thinking, since the monitors are the most important piece of the chain when producing and mixing music (Beginners and Pros, please reply).

Cheers,
Starr

 

[Milo Burke]

1. Google is my friend for learning about products online. Of course, it's nice to have a reference point for price comparisons, so I often go to Sweetwater to compare prices and check out features of monitors. I'm a sucker for reading comparisons and shootouts, since the gritty details of X sounding better than Y tend to come out in these. I find this much more informative than a generically positive review of a monitor with no real cons and no comparisons.


2. You need to listen to monitors before buying. Honestly, I can't even count the number of times I've read all up and down about how amazing a product is, and I completely buy into the hype, only to finally hear the amazing product and find that it sucks. 98% of the stuff you read on the internet weighing this product against that is just baloney, written by people without the expertise trying to read like they do, or written by fanboys or people with an axe to grind. Often times I feel like I can know a product without hearing it, particularly when I'm reading that one person has listened to many options and declares one a winner, or when there is a large consensus. But even then it can be wrong.


For example, I was completely sold on the Mackie HR824mkII studio monitors after reading about them. But they just sounded too simple and raw in person. Like a speaker, not like the music behind the speaker. Maybe they make mixes that translate well, but they sure weren't pretty to listen to.

Then the whole of the internet convinced me that the Audio Technica ATH-M50x was a superb pair of headphones, and I was ready to buy. Until I demoed them and thought yuck! Not even for tracking! I had to settle for the Sennheiser HD 280 Pro, though it's certainly not ideal either.

And I can't find a single bad comment on the DAC portion of the TC Electronic BMC-2 (a digital monitor controller). Now, I didn't truly believe the reviews saying it was as good/better than a $5,000 DAC, but nobody had a single complaint against it unless you compare it to DACs costing 2-3x as much (that don't have the monitor control feature, I might add). Even mastering engineer Bob Katz personally told me he was very impressed by the DAC stage. I was sold ... until I did a shootout after buying it. I didn't even want to believe the DAC makes that big of a difference, and I know I'm biased towards frequency response aberrations making the biggest difference. But after comparing it to the (admittedly mighty for its price) Micromega MyDac, the soundstage and ambiance just fell apart on the BMC-2. So ... I had to buy the DAC too, and I run the BMC-2 digitally into the MyDac to preserve the soundstage and ambiance.

The point is that you can never trust other people's opinions on what is best to buy, even if someone did a huge shootout, even if someone has credentials, even if consensus agrees. You simply need to hear it yourself, and to trust your ears. Especially with speakers.


3. Price is always an issue, for beginners and pros. Everyone has to work within a budget of some kind. And it doesn't help that people seem to shop with a target budget in mind instead of a target sound quality in mind. (Sad but true example: audiophiles buy lots of CD players at $1000 or $5000, but sales of $2000 CD players are crazy low. The best thing a manufacturer of a $2000 CD player can do to increase sales is to increase the price to $5000, since that's a number a lot of audiophiles have in mind when they shop for such a product.)


4. Other info? I absolutely agree that the speaker is the most important element for user playback, and for smart decision making during music creation. But that includes room placement, which the majority ignores. And room acoustics are a very close second, which the majority also ignores, and the majority of those that don't ignore it get it really, really wrong. There's good information out there, it's just that nobody follows it. They must think it's merely a theory, or that it doesn't apply to them. How wrong they are, and how much clarity and accuracy they are giving up...

And if someone is on the hunt for studio monitors, I wouldn't discount thinking outside the box. You never know what you might find for any price. For example, I had the opportunity to trade my $50/pr Pioneer bookshelf speakers for a $1600/pr set of well-regarded MKs (both passive speakers) to use in my second room. I did a listening test, and I found the Pioneers had a more accurate frequency response, and simply had gobs more detail. Price didn't matter at all, and the Best Buy-style bookshelf speakers outshone the studio/pro option. Then again, the Pioneer speakers are the SP-BS21 designed by Andrew Jones, a gentleman who really knows what he is doing when voicing a speaker. Moral: never be afraid to hunt for more affordable options, even if they aren't "studio monitors" and even if they aren't active. But you certainly need to listen and try yourself.

And lastly, you can't trust a brand to sound like a brand. I heard a pair of Gibson studio monitors (not a typo) that sounded truly horrendous for the price. Yikes. And I was well accustomed to working in a room with a pair of the horrible Genelec 1030 monitors. They were so far from accurate, I had written the brand off for life. Until I heard the Genelec 8260 monitors and had to drop my bias. Any studio could be content with the 8260's. Really nice.



I look forward to reading other replies.

 

[alteredfuture]

I think more important than the make of and model of the monitors is the environment they are used in. Ie think bass traps and reflective surfaces.

 

[Zacobe]

I got most of my monitor reviews/information from gearslutz, however in the end I went out on a limb and thought outside the box. Also, I never read reviews from manufacturer or retail websites, as I feel there is a greater chance of fake positive reviews.

Choosing monitors can seem daunting, but it's actually pretty straightforward. Just buy speakers with a flat response, and if you do bass heavy material then get a speaker that can go low. In all honesty, room treatment is much more important than what monitors you get. You can have the best monitors in the world but won't be able to utilize their quality if you're hearing peaks and nulls and early reflections.

My advice for monitors however is to buy used hifi speakers that have a good frequency response and get a used power amp. You can get a nice setup from craigslist for like 500 600 bucks.

 

[DarkRed]

When you are making a decision on what speaker monitors to purchase for your home studio, where do you go to find out about them, and eventually purchase them? Please be as explicit as possible in your answer.

1. What websites do you go to learn about monitors?
2. Do you go to a store and listen to them before making your decision?
3. Is price really an issue? (This question applies to beginners and pros)
4. Any other info you want to share?

Thanks, just trying to know what people are actually thinking, since the monitors are the most important piece of the chain when producing and mixing music (Beginners and Pros, please reply).

Cheers,
Starr

1. What websites do you go to learn about monitors?

You don't need to learn so much about monitors technically, what you need is most often listed in the specifications on most sites. You want them to be able to handle high SPLs so that they don't distort when the mix distorts and vice versa. You want them to be able to take high voltages from your console or audio interface, in other words a weak amp against a high impedance is an issue, because you'll not have a smooth linear frequency response across the velocity range, you will not be able to get "into" the mix much enough because they are not sensitive enough. You also want them to have a flat response and that they have the right dimensions. They also need to have a protection that kicks in when you push them beyond their limit.

2. Do you go to a store and listen to them before making your decision?

No, because it takes many mixes before you know how good of a match they are relative to your ears, your amplification and the room, so for practical reasons I find it is best to set the bar high by just choosing a brand, dimension and price level for a certain standard and go from there. Barefoot for pro at high cost, ATC for very pro at very high cost. Then when you have learned exactly why they are not optimal for you, this can take months if not years, then you can compliment based on what you already know about monitors at this quality.


3. Is price really an issue? (This question applies to beginners and pros)

Generally the higher the price, the better, but can vary a little at the prosumer price level.

4. Any other info you want to share?

It is ideal if you have a set of very large mains and three near field sets of various sizes that can all play the mix at the same time. Much of the performance of speakers comes from getting multiple perspectives of the sound at the same time. Then when you configure the room acoustics, fit the room against the monitors, not the monitors against the room. Large speakers in a small room can work, but it should not be too small. It is also important that they can handle the output capacity of the audio interface/console, so that you get maximum use of the amount of signal the audio interface can deliver. The voltage RMS curvature is cumulative, so the more sensitive they are the better the dynamics of your mix is going to end up. So think not only in terms of frequency response but also in terms of what kind of dynamics you'll be able to achieve with them.

Here is an example of the monitors that Vince Gill is using in his studio - ATC SCM150ASL Pro. He would gain even more from a few more sets, but these particular ATC monitors have pretty ideal dimension and is an excellent all around choice for most engineers out there. But be prepared that these are far from cheap... But if you are going towards pro level, this is a good example of the kind of speakers to look for.

 

[chris carter]

Honestly, choosing monitors is difficult. Why? Because only 10% of what you hear is a result of the monitor and the other 90% is a result of your room. The cheapest way to upgrade a pair of monitors is to upgrade the acoustics of the room – and as an upside that will improve any other monitors you buy later on as well.

You will notice if you poke around forums that options on one particular set of monitors will vary greatly. This is because a) personal taste and b) everyone has varying degrees of accuracy in their room acoustics. So when looking at user reviews and forum chatter about a particular set of monitors you really want to pay attention to GENERAL trends. Like if the vast majority of people say they are bass heavy, or harsh in the high end, or narrow sweet spot, etc. This requires a lot of data points – so I would not rely on a dozen reviews from various people. I’d want to read at least 30, minimum, and that will take time. GS has a ton of users so it’s a good place to look for a lot of feedback. Only pay special attention to an individual if: a) you have heard a decent amount of their material and know they are a really good engineer, and b) you know they are working in a VERY well tuned room. Otherwise, do not give anyone’s individual opinion any extra weight.

Listening in person is great, but ONLY if you can compare to other monitors you are considering at the same time in the same room. Why? Because most of what you hear is the room. So in order to make apples to apples comparisons, you need to evaluate both sets of monitors in the same room and positioned in the same place (putting them right next to each other is generally good enough for most folks). A crappy pair of $300 monitors will generally outperform a pair of $3000 monitors if they are in a better room and positioned better. So you want to hear both in the same room, in the same spot, so you can compare more easily.

Better is listening in a room you know if very good. So if you can get into a good studio that has them and you know the rooms are very accurate, that’s the best scenario. Most stores don’t have showrooms really set up for accurate monitoring of speakers.

Manufacturer’s websites aren’t so great. You can only get very general info about the sound of a monitor from their specs. You can get a BROAD understanding of how low they can go, but only in a very general sense. For example, if one speaker says it goes down to 37Hz and another says 44Hz, that’s basically within the margin of measurement methodology variance so it’s meaningless. Now if one says 37Hz and the other says 57Hz, then that’s enough to know one has more low end than another. Also, frequency response curves are generally meaningless unless there are MASSIVE differences. The specs just aren’t that useful and the methodology of generating them varies so much because there’s not specific standard for measurement that all manufacturers follow. Same thing with overall volume if that’s an issue.

If you want to hedge your bets, look at speakers that provide dip switches or trims on the woofer and tweeter that at least allow you to do some customization if you get them in your environment and they aren’t really working. And get ones that you can return if you really hate them.

But bottom line: the room is 90% of the sound and the speakers are 10%. So if you are at all concerned about what you are hearing, I would focus first and foremost on the room. It is more difficult because you have to learn sh!t. And you are hampered by what you can do to the room (rental, or your bedroom and you need to sleep in there as well, etc.). But it is FAR more effective and FAR cheaper. Focus on specific monitors should be the secondary consideration. For example, if my room were untreated (or just foam or something horrible), and I had $1000 to spend, I’d rather than $500 monitors and $500 put into rigid fiberglass and stuff than $1000 monitors – it will sound better on an order of magnitude (ie. NO CONTEST). Or put another way, if I had $500 monitors and felt like I needed to upgrade them and I had $1200 to burn, I’d put all of that into the room because it will sound better than upgrading the speakers. An accurate room will also cut down on the need for multiple sets of monitors and doing the dreaded “car test”.

 

[thggn]

I don't have a hefty amount of words to provide insight like previous posters..but

things you should keep in mind
1. your room size (those 5s you listened to in GuitarCenter will probably sound different in your room (so will the 8s))
2. the type of music you intend to make (bass heavy?)
3. the difference between musical and honest.. hyped/flat EQ curves

 

[SUPREAM]

I would just like to add to what everybody has contributed, by saying "Don't overthink!" There are a ton of different opinions on monitors, and every user has their own preference. Check out the most highly reviewed ones across different sites, Go to a music store and listen to each, decide if you what a more focus on the high end or low end of a mix, and make a purchase.

 

[B Side Producer]

I read a lot of user reviews on the net. The more you read, the bigger the ocean of opinions become, but you can filter out what generally is thought about a monitor. Filtering the ppl out that expect hifi sound.
Going to the shop to listen to them.
Try to find the A brands out there.
Then choose the focal alpha 80 . That big because you want proper bass representation. IMO, no better monitor around anywhere near that price. Monitors of 5 times, or more, as expensive don't even sound as good.