Bass drums for dance. Help please!! :-)

V

vagabond

Guest
I’m producing dance and I’m new to this. I was just wondering if anyone can help me with how you can create a bass drum that is very tight and none-muddy in the deep area but still has great presence and clear snap-sound. I hear that a lot of the bass drums on commercial tracks have this sound, and much of them sound very alike. It seems that it’s a fixed rule to get it fundamentally good sounding.

Does anyone have any advices or tips? :)
 
Well, the most obvious and easiest place to start is the classic 808/909 stuff - they provide a good base sound, to which you can add or take away a bit: layering a 909 kick with a highpass-filtered real/sampled kick (so the bass freqs don't muddy up each other) for added personal timbre has done the trick for me usually...
 
I'd suggest Stomper Hyperion 5, for custom kick drum sounds (I don't like sampled kicks, but sometimes it's very useful).

I've found the general kick drums length is about 250ms (at least for House) So, when I get a kick drum with a shorter duration, I put it trough the Gold Wave built in 'high pass' filter. This is a very strange filter: it increases the sample length when applied.

I cut everything below 40hz. Works very well, an the kick seems to fit the songs better.
 
vagabond said:
I’m producing dance and I’m new to this. I was just wondering if anyone can help me with how you can create a bass drum that is very tight and none-muddy in the deep area but still has great presence and clear snap-sound. I hear that a lot of the bass drums on commercial tracks have this sound, and much of them sound very alike. It seems that it’s a fixed rule to get it fundamentally good sounding.

Does anyone have any advices or tips? :)
Click to expand...

Try to increase the freq's in the 20Hz area for deep punch and also increase in the 400Hz area. then reduce the freq's in the 50-60 Hz area, cause that's the muddy area.


Vic20
 
Vic20 said:


Try to increase the freq's in the 20Hz area for deep punch and also increase in the 400Hz area. then reduce the freq's in the 50-60 Hz area, cause that's the muddy area.


Vic20
Click to expand...

I wouldn't do it, unless I have very good monitors.
 
Yeah I was gonna say the same thing, ive never ever come across someone wanting to boost the 20hz area, this should be rolled off. U should roll off at about the 40hz area. I find that the 70-100hz gives the low rumble, where as the 120hz end roughly gives the main punch and anything higher may or may not affect the overall timbre depending upon the content of the kick.
One thing to watch out for, is how the kick interacts with the bass.
For the kick, over exaggerate the settings by increasing the gain and sweep through the frequencies to find the spots which stand out and sound like the areas u are lookng for. One u have the frequency, lower the gain and make sure the Q isn't too high.
 
Vic20 said:


Try to increase the freq's in the 20Hz area for deep punch and also increase in the 400Hz area. then reduce the freq's in the 50-60 Hz area, cause that's the muddy area.


Vic20
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, there's a hidden agenda behind my reply. What I posted was in fact wrong information. My advice regarding increasing and decreasing frequencies, was the opposite of what I normally would suggest.

Raising the 20Hz level is crazy, and also raising the 400 Hz area. LOL !

The purpose of this reply is to show people that a forum like this can take you several steps back rather than forward


Why's that ?

Because there are so many different opinions regarding music production, and there are so many different people in here who replies to questions. There are all kinds of people in here, from newbies to experienced producers, but it is impossible for anyone to know who's got the right answers and who's got the wrong answers.

Well, one could say there's no right or wrong answers in music production, yeah there are many ways of doing things, but from what I have read in different books, there are some common techniques that most producers use. If you follow them as a basic rule you should be on the right track. However, following advices in this forums can lead you on a completely wrong track. That's my point.

How can anyone know if he or she can rely on the information given, when there's so many different opinions on the same subject ?

Take my answer for instance, some people may actually take my answer as the right way of doing things. So, they spend a lot of time producing with this as a fundament, but later on they discover that is was just bull, and they have to start all over again.

I know there are many good advices in this forum, but there are also many, many bad advices.

So, my conclusion is: as a source of knowledge, this forum (and others) is basically worthless.

Instead, rely on your self, your own ears, and use education and books as a source of knowledge.

Of course, if you just want to ask simple questions as; "where do I get that synth cheap" you could always use a forum like this.


Vic20
 
Vic20 said:
Believe it or not, there's a hidden agenda behind my reply. What I posted was in fact wrong information. My advice regarding increasing and decreasing frequencies, was the opposite of what I normally would suggest.

Raising the 20Hz level is crazy, and also raising the 400 Hz area. LOL !

The purpose of this reply is to show people that a forum like this can take you several steps back rather than forward


Why's that ?

Because there are so many different opinions regarding music production, and there are so many different people in here who replies to questions. There are all kinds of people in here, from newbies to experienced producers, but it is impossible for anyone to know who's got the right answers and who's got the wrong answers.

Well, one could say there's no right or wrong answers in music production, yeah there are many ways of doing things, but from what I have read in different books, there are some common techniques that most producers use. If you follow them as a basic rule you should be on the right track. However, following advices in this forums can lead you on a completely wrong track. That's my point.

How can anyone know if he or she can rely on the information given, when there's so many different opinions on the same subject ?

Take my answer for instance, some people may actually take my answer as the right way of doing things. So, they spend a lot of time producing with this as a fundament, but later on they discover that is was just bull, and they have to start all over again.

I know there are many good advices in this forum, but there are also many, many bad advices.

So, my conclusion is: as a source of knowledge, this forum (and others) is basically worthless.

Instead, rely on your self, your own ears, and use education and books as a source of knowledge.

Of course, if you just want to ask simple questions as; "where do I get that synth cheap" you could always use a forum like this.


Vic20
Click to expand...

interesting... I could agree with you until certain point. It's true that we have so many people in here, and countless levels of knowledge.

But, to say that this forum is worthless? I really don't agree. At least, if you come to this forum everyday like me, you start do "know" people reagards their knowledge. And it's very possible to discover that common sense, like some tips, gear brands, general rules, etc.

But if you're reffering to further information and pro adiveces, maybe you're right. There's nothing like pro books and pro schools, etc.

See my case. I'm not a professional and I'm not even know if I'm a newbie, since I'm into music for hobby. But, when I saw your advice, I had an instant opinion about your tip, because I have some of the "common sense" I mentioned. And in this case, the common sense says: "don't mess with the subbass area, blah blah..." To me, it's very good to know something like this, altough it seems a ridiculous statement.

Only some ideas. I'm not trying to dismiss you. In truth I think your point is very interesting.

Peace
 
I know what u mean vic, but I still think that if u read enough into things from multiple sources and keep on doing so, u will eventually understand. How do u think I knew u had put the wrong info. I knew instantly and I can honestly say that most of my theory knowledge comes from the net and particularily from forums too. This is a great forum, I recommended it on the forum I used most (in my sig), it is true that lot of ppl here are into the hip hop, urban stuff, but u can still learn a lot. I produce mainly Bashment/urban and garage anyway so I find a lot of information here useful.
 
harlley said:


interesting... I could agree with you until certain point. It's true that we have so many people in here, and countless levels of knowledge.

But, to say that this forum is worthless? I really don't agree. At least, if you come to this forum everyday like me, you start do "know" people reagards their knowledge. And it's very possible to discover that common sense, like some tips, gear brands, general rules, etc.

But if you're reffering to further information and pro adiveces, maybe you're right. There's nothing like pro books and pro schools, etc.

See my case. I'm not a professional and I'm not even know if I'm a newbie, since I'm into music for hobby. But, when I saw your advice, I had an instant opinion about your tip, because I have some of the "common sense" I mentioned. And in this case, the common sense says: "don't mess with the subbass area, blah blah..." To me, it's very good to know something like this, altough it seems a ridiculous statement.

Only some ideas. I'm not trying to dismiss you. In truth I think your point is very interesting.

Peace
Click to expand...

Ok, worthless is maybe a wrong word here (just trying to get a debate going :), cause there are in fact useful information in here, and as you say, you get to know people after a while, so you get an idea of who's got the right and who's got the wrong information.

It's however more tricky for the newbies to know what's right and what's wrong. I believe many newbies look at a forum like this as a convenient and cheap way of getting information, but the easiest way is seldom the best way.

regarding production techniques etc...I've stopped using forums like this as sources of information, cause I never know if I get the right information....even if I know people a bit and what they say makes sense most of the time, I still can't rely on their answers all the time...

I've seen a couple of times that guys with 1000+ or more posts on their back, give out wrong information. If I where a firsttimer in this forum, I would believe almost anything a guy with an avatar told me :)



Vic20
 
As it goes for more advanced production techniques, the best way is to find out for your self or study literature. But questions about synths and where you plug stuff, could be useful.
 
To be honest, I dont even know why we are bothering with this whole post. The idea is to use the information to learn and not to talk about deceiving ppl into getting the wrong info etc.
I personally come here for info, I know a lot already but I always stive to find new information. Wether I choose to believe it is up to me.
I hope that sections like tutorial sections will help ppl as they are most likely to be helpfull or else they wouldnt be there in the first place.

5am
 
Vic20 said:


Ok, worthless is maybe a wrong word here (just trying to get a debate going :), cause there are in fact useful information in here, and as you say, you get to know people after a while, so you get an idea of who's got the right and who's got the wrong information.

It's however more tricky for the newbies to know what's right and what's wrong. I believe many newbies look at a forum like this as a convenient and cheap way of getting information, but the easiest way is seldom the best way.

regarding production techniques etc...I've stopped using forums like this as sources of information, cause I never know if I get the right information....even if I know people a bit and what they say makes sense most of the time, I still can't rely on their answers all the time...

I've seen a couple of times that guys with 1000+ or more posts on their back, give out wrong information. If I where a firsttimer in this forum, I would believe almost anything a guy with an avatar told me :)



Vic20
Click to expand...

OK, Let's see:

1 - "It's however more tricky for the newbies to know what's right and what's wrong."

Right. Sometimes the cheap way isn't the right way. There's no comparison: books, professionals... But only if you can afford it. In my case, this "pro stuff" is cost prohibitive, at least in my country. But I'm very careful, and try to pick the right tips. By now, it's working for me. And I'm sure it's working for tons of newbies in here, so when they send their demo tapes to the promoters, labels, etc... there's a (little?) better quality in their beats and records.

2 - "I've seen a couple of times that guys with 1000+ or more posts on their back, give out wrong information. If I where a firsttimer in this forum, I would believe almost anything a guy with an avatar told me :)"

This is a perferct statement. People in here are measured by their posts number, cool avatar, cool gear and cool sigs, period. But I don't give a f**k about it, since I could mention some morons who increases their counters only with "me too", "ban him", "piracy is not allowed...", "give up on production" "FL sucks", "Reason is better than FL" and tons of useless sh*t.

But still, I think we could learn a lot in here. It's just a matter of split the good and the (very) bad info.

BTW, this thread will be closed soon. :)

Cheers
 
Fighting piracy is very important! I don’t think that is crap to write in here! It may get certain people to think about what their doing.
 
Vic20 said:


Believe it or not, there's a hidden agenda behind my reply. What I posted was in fact wrong information. My advice regarding increasing and decreasing frequencies, was the opposite of what I normally would suggest.

Raising the 20Hz level is crazy, and also raising the 400 Hz area. LOL !

The purpose of this reply is to show people that a forum like this can take you several steps back rather than forward


Why's that ?

Because there are so many different opinions regarding music production, and there are so many different people in here who replies to questions. There are all kinds of people in here, from newbies to experienced producers, but it is impossible for anyone to know who's got the right answers and who's got the wrong answers.

Well, one could say there's no right or wrong answers in music production, yeah there are many ways of doing things, but from what I have read in different books, there are some common techniques that most producers use. If you follow them as a basic rule you should be on the right track. However, following advices in this forums can lead you on a completely wrong track. That's my point.

How can anyone know if he or she can rely on the information given, when there's so many different opinions on the same subject ?

Take my answer for instance, some people may actually take my answer as the right way of doing things. So, they spend a lot of time producing with this as a fundament, but later on they discover that is was just bull, and they have to start all over again.

I know there are many good advices in this forum, but there are also many, many bad advices.

So, my conclusion is: as a source of knowledge, this forum (and others) is basically worthless.

Instead, rely on your self, your own ears, and use education and books as a source of knowledge.

Of course, if you just want to ask simple questions as; "where do I get that synth cheap" you could always use a forum like this.


Vic20
Click to expand...


wow, he's right.......


im friggin outta here!!!




...where da books at?








peace.
 
Another interesting thing...

If you use several years to develop skills and techniques that actually get really nice results, would you give it all away to strangers so other newbie’s saves those years you struggled with blood, sweat and tears, and get it immediately for free?

I think there are a lot of private and well sealed “patents” out among electronic musicians. I’ve been e-mailing with established dance and trance artists, and every single one of them is speaking generally (useless rubbish) instead of specifically (constructive and relevant informative).

Like in here, you can get really good help and interesting opinions regarding sound modules, computers, hardware connecting, and REALLY newbie stuff (what is a sequencer and a bass drum). But when it comes to advanced electronic music producing and mastering... the lips are sealed! And I think this is pretty normal, because no one in their right mind would give up the results of their endurance race in their studio to the public for free – just like when you discover something and patent it: It’s yours only! You have struggled for it!
 
cubbyhouse said:
Fighting piracy is very important! I don’t think that is crap to write in here! It may get certain people to think about what their doing.
Click to expand...

Cubbyhouse, I'm not making any apology, in truth, I don't give a f*ck if someone is using pirate software. I use only freeware stuff, since my main goal is to have fun, as I said above.

What sets me off is people who wasting their time (and our time) bashing other people that don't fit the "producer status quo" (cool gear, cool avatar, and other already mentioned). I think they're only counting posts in order to get cool or more "powerful" or whatever. After all, we have countless mods in here, to make sure there's no "outlaw talking" at FP.

Don't you get frustrated, when you see a topic "electronic music production tips" and, when you check it, it's only about people bashing each other because you use FL, I use Reason, another use Cubase and so on?

It's all about this.
 
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harlley said:


Cubbyhouse, I'm not making any apology, in truth, I don't give a f*ck if someone is using pirate software. I use only freeware stuff, since my main goal is to have fun, as I said above.

What sets me off is people who wasting their time (and our time) bashing other people that don't fit the "producer status quo" (cool gear, cool avatar, and other already mentioned). I think they're only counting posts in order to get cool or more "powerful" or whatever. After all, we have countless mods in here, to make sure there's no "outlaw talking" at FP.

Don't you get frustrated, when you see a topic "electronic music production tips" and, when you check it, it's only about people bashing each other because you use FL, I use Reason, another use Cubase and so on?

It's all about this.
Click to expand...

I’m not demanding any apologies either! :) I just say that it’s important to write that piracy is wrong, often and repeatedly, because there’s a new culture to day that looks at piracy in an easy way. Piracy is the same as stealing, so I think it’s important to set a focus on this problem instead of ignoring it and give a damn about it.

I know that any focus on “producer status quo” as the only worthy reference for serious music production is dorky! But you will always come back to the fact that expensive gear will get expensive sounds, but there are still no reasons for bashing any heads or being patronizing because someone use freeware or consumer studio packages! So I agree with you to a certain point. But I don’t know if I understand you right regarding the avatar thing and post counting... If you mean that certain hotshots with thousands of posts and avatars are those who laughing at you and being patronizing... I’ve got use to it! “STOP USING FL” and etc. They are the ones having an issue, so I’ve come to a conclusion to just shut the f*** up and ignore it. Hehe. Just so it is said: I did make a post about gear for newbie’s, and referred to a toy, but that’s because I’m a newbie my self. Self-irony with humor! ;)

Yes, it is frustrating to get dissed because of what you use! But remember that you CAN make good **** on freeware and consumer software studios. Actually, I prefer Acid Pro 5 over Nuendo 2! The Acid Pro 5 pack has actually a decent price! The same as Reason, I guess. And it inspires me!

You got two types of musicians: hotshot clowns and serious producers. Be proud of being a serious producer and give a **** about the clowns! There are many nice people in here!

Keep up the spirit, harlley, and make music with whatever you got! And be proud of it! :)
 
cubbyhouse said:

...But I don’t know if I understand you right regarding the avatar thing and post counting... If you mean that certain hotshots with thousands of posts and avatars are those who laughing at you and being patronizing... I’ve got use to it! “STOP USING FL” and etc. They are the ones having an issue, so I’ve come to a conclusion to just shut the f*** up and ignore it. Hehe. Just so it is said: I did make a post about gear for newbie’s, and referred to a toy, but that’s because I’m a newbie my self. Self-irony with humor! ;)
Click to expand...

Firstly, thank you for your cool words!

I don't have any problem about using freeware stuff. But I have the impression that some people tend to click my name to see what i'm using/making...

The problem: if you make a thread about a "ridiculous" question, there's some well-known FP users that flood the thread with their bullsh*t and the main question keeps unanswered (in "getting started" forum this is a rule) So, I don't post any question there.

But, after all, FP is an incredible place! :D

cubbyhouse said:

Keep up the spirit, harlley, and make music with whatever you got! And be proud of it!
Click to expand...

Thank you again! Your comments are very appreciated!

Cheers:cheers:
 
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