!!!!Help With Scales!!!!

Well if you have a melody in your head? dont you need to know in what key and scale it is in, in order to transcribe it down to the instrument or paper?

Well I mean I know that it can be done by ear, but it would save alot of time going through all the scales Just to get your melody down. Its how Beethoven wrote his last pieces.
 
this is mainly for sampling when I add parts I want to use this as a kind of reference. But if u do it by ear u still might not know unless u know the scales already. Basically Id like to learn the technical side to this
 
okay sorry if any of y'all touched on this....but to me this is the single most helpful thing you can learn in theory....

for electronic music (including hip hop)...you rarely go outside the normal major and minor scales. sures there's numerous modes and they all sound fancy, but its more confusing than useful when you are trying to grasp the basics. so first off, just start with minor key...you'll use that the most i guarantee it.

just think of it as a series of intervals, forget the names of the notes. first, a half step is the ADJACENT NOTE ON A KEYBOARD (C to C# is a half step for instance). a whole step is 2 notes on the keyboard (C to D).

Now, every minor scale, whether its C# minor or A minor or E minor....ALL natural minor scales...follow this pattern of intervals...

w - whole step
h - half step

1 w 2 h 3 w 4 w 5 h 6 w 7 w 1

each number is a different scale degree. 1 is the ROOT of the key. Scale and key really don't mean anything different....it is a certain group of notes in a certain pattern.

so say you want to find out the notes in A minor. this pattern translates into:

1 w 2 h 3 w 4 w 5 h 6 w 7 w 1

=

A w B h C w D w E h F w G w A

ABCDEFGA is all the notes in the key of A minor. look at the pattern on the keyboard.

then do it for say...E minor

E w F# h G w A w B h C w D w E

E F# G A B C D E

thats e minor. that doesn't mean you can't play notes that aren't in this group just because they are "out of key"...in fact a lot of them can add a LOT of character and flavor. Even though Bb isn't "in" the key of E minor, if you play it in the right context (like playing Bb-A-G-E) it sounds WICKED!


hope this helps. this is the basis, if you know this you can construct chords and write melodies (and FIGURE OUT melodies) so much easier.
 
To simplify the above, all the white notes after A is the minor scale. All the white notes after C is the maJor scale. If you want to move a minor scale to a different key, you must move all the keys from A minor so that it would have the same intervals (spaces between notes) as a minor. If you want to move a maJor scale to a different key, you must move all the keys from C maJor so that it would have the same intervals (spaces between notes) as a maJor.

And no, they are not the same.

(Sorry for the capital Js, my J key on my keyboard doesnt work so I have to ctrl+v)
 
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yea the comment on scale/key being not so different was really in response to what seemed like some confusion on what they were.....

that a scale and a key are two completely exclusive entities....as far as the basics go they really are very similar.

of course you can be in a certain key and play a different scale (like a chromatic one) within it.....just trying to simplify :)
 
Actually, I know I said that A minor and C maJor arent the same but im not to sure. What makes them different?
 
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Shenlong said:
Actually, I know I said that A minor and C maJor arent the same but im not to sure. What makes them different?
Click to expand...

Which chord you end on...

If it feels like you should end on C (and it sounds happy), it's in C major. If it feels like it should end on Am (and it sounds kind of sad), it's in A minor. If it sounds like it should end on G (and sounds kind of medieval), it's in G mixolydian. But that's technically a mode, as are C major (the ionian mode), and Am (the aeolian mode).

There are corresponding modes for each of the notes in the diatonic (major and minor) scale. Each with their own feel and vibe, waiting to be discovered and put to good use.

Never stop learning.
 
j hazen said:
okay sorry if any of y'all touched on this....but to me this is the single most helpful thing you can learn in theory....

for electronic music (including hip hop)...you rarely go outside the normal major and minor scales. sures there's numerous modes and they all sound fancy, but its more confusing than useful when you are trying to grasp the basics. so first off, just start with minor key...you'll use that the most i guarantee it.

just think of it as a series of intervals, forget the names of the notes. first, a half step is the ADJACENT NOTE ON A KEYBOARD (C to C# is a half step for instance). a whole step is 2 notes on the keyboard (C to D).

Now, every minor scale, whether its C# minor or A minor or E minor....ALL natural minor scales...follow this pattern of intervals...

w - whole step
h - half step

1 w 2 h 3 w 4 w 5 h 6 w 7 w 1

each number is a different scale degree. 1 is the ROOT of the key. Scale and key really don't mean anything different....it is a certain group of notes in a certain pattern.

so say you want to find out the notes in A minor. this pattern translates into:

1 w 2 h 3 w 4 w 5 h 6 w 7 w 1

=

A w B h C w D w E h F w G w A

ABCDEFGA is all the notes in the key of A minor. look at the pattern on the keyboard.

then do it for say...E minor

E w F# h G w A w B h C w D w E

E F# G A B C D E

thats e minor. that doesn't mean you can't play notes that aren't in this group just because they are "out of key"...in fact a lot of them can add a LOT of character and flavor. Even though Bb isn't "in" the key of E minor, if you play it in the right context (like playing Bb-A-G-E) it sounds WICKED!


hope this helps. this is the basis, if you know this you can construct chords and write melodies (and FIGURE OUT melodies) so much easier.
Click to expand...

This kind of makes sense to me. but just for example im playing with the sample of janet jackson lets wait awhile I sped up the sample and in cool edit (i used it for reference) it says the song is written in G# so my keys would be G# A# B C D Eb F G#?
 
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Shenlong said:
To simplify the above, all the white notes after A is the minor scale. All the white notes after C is the maJor scale. If you want to move a minor scale to a different key, you must move all the keys from A minor so that it would have the same intervals (spaces between notes) as a minor. If you want to move a maJor scale to a different key, you must move all the keys from C maJor so that it would have the same intervals (spaces between notes) as a maJor.

And no, they are not the same.

(Sorry for the capital Js, my J key on my keyboard doesnt work so I have to ctrl+v)
Click to expand...

are we referning to all the keys after a2 and c3? because otherwise wouldnt they cancel eachother out?
 
geedubbee said:


Which chord you end on...

If it feels like you should end on C (and it sounds happy), it's in C major. If it feels like it should end on Am (and it sounds kind of sad), it's in A minor. If it sounds like it should end on G (and sounds kind of medieval), it's in G mixolydian. But that's technically a mode, as are C major (the ionian mode), and Am (the aeolian mode).

There are corresponding modes for each of the notes in the diatonic (major and minor) scale. Each with their own feel and vibe, waiting to be discovered and put to good use.

Never stop learning.
Click to expand...

this makes alot of sense so ur saying that ur brighter sounds on the keyboard are usually ur majors and ur darker sounding ones r usually ur minors? this is all semi new to me I was in highschool choir and thats about as far as my theory goes (those of us that learned music in high school know how that is lol)
 
The G# major scale would be: G# A# C Db Eb F G G#.
minor would be G# A# B C# D# E F# G#.
A god method to figure whether a song is in major or minor is this.

1 Figure the root note of the first chord.

2 From there, check if the major or minor chord sounds better.

Example: If your root note was C you check major [ C E G ] and you check minor [C Eb G].

Try this and you will understand what the people on here meant with "sad sounding" and "happy sounding".

@j hazen
great post man, really broke it down :cheers:

Edit: You can simply move the intervals of the chords I gave you to any root note you like

Major:
1 [two whole] 2 [one whole&one half] 3

Minor:
1 [one whole & one half] 2 [2 whole]

chris
 
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