Writer/Producer doesn't deserver ROYALTIES???

j.troup said:
I did all the production. I wrote every single lyric. His only contribution was "I want to do a song about this...this is what the situation is".
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Ok cool so based on that info your offer was more than fair because your upfront fee was a Studio Recording/Song Production Fee and then on the back end you're entitled to at least 100% of the music copyright and at least 75% of the lyric copyright and since there is no outside publishing company involved that means you would be in your rights to offer a 75/25 split on the mechanicals and advise the client this is separate from artist royalties which belongs 100% to him. Of course negotiations can be made to bring down the upfront fee and raise the back end or vice versa depending on each individual situation.

The client must understand that there is a clear distinction between providing studio/song production work and providing songWRITING (that includes both music and lyrics) content

In the future you can lay this out for the potential client before the work begins and offer them an option to buy out your written content and pay a bigger upfront fee total, which may be to your advantage if you don't believe the client will ever have a shot of making anything financial success of the track.

(Sample)
Studio Recording/Song Production Fee - $2500 per completed track
Songwriting Content Fee - $3500 per completed track upfront or back end royalty percentage
 
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Legal Dollaz said:
Ok cool so based on that info your offer was more than fair because your upfront fee was a Studio Recording/Song Production Fee and then on the back end you're entitled to at least 100% of the music copyright and at least 75% of the lyric copyright and since there is no outside publishing company involved that means you would be in your rights to offer a 75/25 split on the mechanicals and advise the client this is separate from artist royalties which belongs 100% to him. Of course negotiations can be made to bring down the upfront fee and raise the back end or vice versa depending on each individual situation.

The client must understand that there is a clear distinction between providing studio/song production work and providing songWRITING (that includes both music and lyrics) content
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That's what I was thinking.




So what would you say if part of the fee was an advance for songwriting music composition??
 
j.troup said:
That's what I was thinking.



So what would you say if part of the fee was an advance for songwriting music composition??
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That can work as well as long as its spelled out in advance. So if you use my example from the other post instead of them 'buying you out' they would pay an advance against future royalties and then a fair split.

Studio Recording/Song Production fee - $2500 per completed track
Songwriting Content fee - $1000 advance and 75/25 split (in this case) on back end mechanicals

So the client would need to give you $3500 upfront and the split would be determined afterwards unless the client states that he agrees you're going to write everything then you control the complete 100% but of course he can 'purchase' some of the pie as an investment in his own finished work
 
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Legal Dollaz said:
That can work as well as long as its spelled out in advance. So if you use my example from the other post instead of them 'buying you out' they would pay an advance against future royalties and then a fair split.

Studio Recording/Song Production fee - $2500 per completed track
Songwriting Content fee - $1000 advance and 75/25 split (in this case) on back end mechanicals

So the client would need to give you $3500 upfront and the split would be determined afterwards unless the client states that he agrees you're going to write everything then you control the complete 100% but of course he can 'purchase' some of the pie as an investment in his own finished work
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So to break down what you said (since there are a lot of people who aren't versed at all in publishing/royalties)


iTunes track $0.99 (99 Cents)

Statutory Mechanical Rate (per copyright) $0.10 (10 Cents, for the sake of rounding)


In a 75/25 split of the mechanical publishing in my favor, Copyright breaks down like this...






Writers Share (5 cents)

(Me) 75% of $0.05 = $0.0375 (3.75 Cents)

(Client) 25% of $0.05 = $0.0125 (1.25 Cents)




Music Share (5 Cents)


(Me) 100% of $0.05 = $0.05 (5 Cents)

(Client) 0% of $0.05 = $0.00 (0 Cents)




So for every unit sold on iTunes for 99 cents, (not taking into account the iTunes cut)




Me


$0.0375 (Writers/Publishers Share)

+

$0.05 (Music/Publishers Share)
----------------------------------------

$0.0875 Per iTunes unit sold (8 Cents)






Client:

$0.99 - $0.0875 (Artist Royalty)
-------------------------------------------

$0.9025









So basically, in a 75/25 split of the mechanicals (writers), per unit sold on iTunes, I end up with 8.75 Cents per unit sold, and the artist ends up with 90.25 Cents per unit sold.




Did I calculate everything right/leave anything out?
 
That's correct except deduct the standard 30% fee iTunes (Apple) takes off the top and it also assumes the artist is acting as his own label and will endure all associated marketing/promotional costs. If a traditional label comes into play then as you know the numbers change dramatically lol.

Also remember that anything can be negotiated, so for example you may knock a G off the upfront fee in exchange for 25% of his artist share if you think you got the next possible Justin Bieber on your hands and/or the client is a little light in the pockets.

If you break it down to the client in terms of real dollars like you just did they would be much more likely to agree to both the upfront and the back end side. You may need to throw in a free Donald Passman book as part of your upfront fee from now on lol....
 
Legal Dollaz said:
That's correct except deduct the standard 30% fee iTunes (Apple) takes off the top and it also assumes the artist is acting as his own label and will endure all associated marketing/promotional costs. If a traditional label comes into play then as you know the numbers change dramatically lol.

Also remember that anything can be negotiated, so for example you may knock a G off the upfront fee in exchange for 25% of his artist share if you think you got the next possible Justin Bieber on your hands and/or the client is a little light in the pockets.

If you break it down to the client in terms of real dollars like you just did they would be much more likely to agree to both the upfront and the back end side. You may need to throw in a free Donald Passman book as part of your upfront fee from now on lol....
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Yeah, just for the sake of the math, I took the iTunes service fee out. And yeah, when labels get involved all those numbers go straight to hell. lol



Trust me when I tell you that my advance is nowhere near that. Crackhead prices, I tell you.




And all clients are light in the pockets. lol





I'm just trying to keep it simple for these clients, and still ensure that I get paid. These are teens and their parents with a dream, so I ain't trying to GOUGE them, but still get paid what I'm worth, and what's realistic in this market.


But if I mess around and create the next Rebecca Black - Friday, I wanna make sure I get my cut of that 100 Million youtube views!




Thanx for the reality check. I appreciate it. And hopefully all of FP appreciates the quick and dirty publishing lesson.
 
Yea you got it figured out and actually you have a reason to keep pushing on the traditional 'working with artist' route, not because you're trying to live and die off of placement money alone but to boost up your discography client resume so you can go from the $500 upfront fee to $2500 because most of these kids and parents may not know much about the business aspect of the music game but they sure know the NAME/FAME game and that's what they love to throw their money at!

T.A.P. (Troup Artist Development) Services

get em...
 
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Legal Dollaz said:
Yea you got it figured out and actually you have a reason to keep pushing on the traditional 'working with artist' route, not because you're trying to live and die off of placement money alone but to boost up your discography client resume so you can go from the $500 upfront fee to $2500 because most of these kids and parents may not know much about the business aspect of the music game but they sure know the NAME/FAME game and that's what they love to throw their money at!

T.A.P. (Troup Artist Development) Services

get em...
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It ain't that fukkin low now. I said crackhead prices, not HILLBILLY METH HEAD PRICES!!! lol.




And you're right. You're exactly right. The "nobody/no chance" clients keep the lights on, but in the event one of these clients go Justin Bieber / Rebecca Black, the clients will mortgage their houses and cash out college funds to work with the guy who created them.



Artist development is only one piece of the puzzle I'm implementing. This is the very first step in Phase 1. Easing into the full time Consulting / Business Strategist role. Cuz dammit, making these songs takes TIME!!! lol






Thanx again. :cheers:
 
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j.troup said:
It ain't that fukkin low now. I said crackhead prices, not HILLBILLY METH HEAD PRICES!!! lol.




And you're right. You're exactly right. The "nobody/no chance" clients keep the lights on, but in the event one of these clients go Justin Bieber / Rebecca Black, the clients will mortgage their houses and cash out college funds to work with the guy who created them.



Artist development is only one piece of the puzzle I'm implementing. This is the very first step in Phase 1. Easing into the full time Consulting / Business Strategist role. Cuz dammit, making these songs takes TIME!!! lol






Thanx again. :cheers:
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I always enjoyed working with newbie artists
teaching them studio etiquette,what overdubs are,etc....
sounds good man
blessings in your adventure




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fataltone said:
I always enjoyed working with newbie artists
teaching them studio etiquette,what overdubs are,etc....
sounds good man
blessings in your adventure
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'



Thx.



Sometimes it's fun. Other times it's frustrating when someone can't perform simple tasks.





Thanks to all for their input, especially LD. I spoke to one of my Grammy winning producer homies, and he read me the riot act. lol



So I've made my decision, and I"m gonna hit up the client with the info, plus a quick and dirty lesson on royalties and the music industry.



AND I HOPE EVERYONE GOT A CHANCE TO VIEW THE PUBLISHING BREAKDOWN IN THE THREAD. BECAUSE THIS IS HOW YOU GET PAID AS A PRODUCER, AND YOU NEED TO KNOW.

---------- Post added 08-17-2012 at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was 07-24-2012 at 09:51 AM ----------

Writers, Producers, Engineers and Musicians....



1) Know your worth. You are valuable. Your contributions are what the music industry is built on.


2) Stand your ground. State your terms, make them fair and equitable, and stick to it. Never be afraid to let someone walk.


3) KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. Understand ALL TYPES OF PUBLISHING. Understand ADVANCES. Understand how the money flows.





Pay your dues in order to gain experience. That's fine. But once you are at a proficient level, DEMAND FAIR COMPENSATION for your work.



Don't sell yourself short. Don't fall for the okey doke. Don't let someone make you believe that their part in the record is more valuable than yours.



If you're good enough, then someone else will see it, and value your talents with their DOLLARS and FAIR TERMS. The customer that doesn't isn't the LAST customer you'll ever see.





That's all I have to say concerning this thread...
 
I'm liking this thread. It's reminding me anyone can make a living off of music without being a household name if they're willing to dedicate themselves to it. Not hard if this is what you love.
 
@ Troup. The bottom line is, who owns the masters? I assume you do.

I know you are no rookie, so don't take this as a diss

But when I enter a business contract with anybody, including friends AND family, everything is in writing and nothing is assumed. That way when down the road someone thought they were owed more or didn't owe more you have it in writing with their signature. period. Trust me. Business contracts I signed saved my behind quite a few times.

I watched a video where B.Cox said that when he goes into a studio to do a collab or co-writing, nobody leaves the room until the splits are agreed upon in writing.

When its just a few bucks everybody is cool. But as soon as big money starts to flow everyone has different interpretations of the original contract :)

It's called human nature.
 
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