MASCHINE!!! "Akai can kiss my ass."

[youngjboy]

There's so much ignorance and myths when it comes to music production, it's not even funny. For the last time, there is no unique "MPC swing". There's nothing special about it. Swing is just percentages. You can achieve the same swing/groove easily in any of the tools mentioned here. None of these tools will make your beat "stiff" more than the other, unless the sequencer in question is very limited (software sequencers generally have a much higher resolution than MPCs).


First off, Spark has not even been released yet. How do you know whether it is "completely integrated just as much as Maschine"? If you look at videos of Spark in use, there seems to be a ton of mouse-ing to get to the various sections in Spark ... going to effects, step sequencer, picking drum kits, all seem to require taking your hands off the controller ...etc. What's the point of a dedicated controller if you can't do almost everything with it???

The other thing that seems off about Spark is the main screen seems to be a mirror view of the controller. What's the point of that? And then to get to one of the secondary screens ... guess what ... you need to use the mouse ... Nothing like that on Maschine unless YOU WANT to use the mouse -- everything is doable from the controller.

We can agree to disagree. If you can't tell the difference than so be it. You keep saying that "you can achieve the same swing." That is exactly what i have been saying is that stock with no adjustments, the MPC feels a little looser than software. I never said that Maschine or Cubase could not achieve the same feel, it just takes more adjustments. There are endless videos and tutorials on how to set up your swing percentages to achieve a MPC like feel yet you claim that there is no difference.


Have you ever really did an A/B comparison or are you just playing devil's advocate. I like my MPC because it is rock solid on sequencing and controls hardware very good. When i used Cubase to control my hardware, it did not do as good, but it has its own benefits also such as ease of editing. I will put it like this, when i used Cubase to control hardware it was definitely stiffer.


Lastly, your comment about a higher resolution almost agrees with mine. If you quantize to a higher resolution the notes are tighter, so then is the MPC looser....

 

[noborders]

Again, I haven't heard of Ableton being unstable. Apparently you have heard otherwise.

Ok, I apologize about that. I seriously thought you were trolling because of your absurd claim about Maschine ever having been "unstable, crippled piece of junk that constantly crashed and never worked right". Live 8's instability is pretty well established at this point and it only takes a quick google search to see that: Let me google that for you

 

[Chuckdamailman]

you know what.. I'm starting to think that Native Instruments paid Noborders to come on this forum and spend his time disputing everything said about Maschine! MY GOD!!!!! Noborders is a NI Puppet..... And Yet....He still has no music up. Still waiting on you my man!

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------

I think the MPC might have even molested Noborders at a young age. This explains his anger towards the MPC.... Just a thought!

 

[Dan1234]

Hello everyone
Sry if i'm posting in the wrong section; I'm having a hard time finding the drivers for the akai mpd16. I searched the forums and found some links that never make it past the loading screen...
Also, how do it hook it up with traktor?
I'm a rookie at this; I just bought this thing and my excitement is slowly burning up....
Pls help

 

[jahrome]

To be completely honest, Maschine was nowhere near being up to par with an MPC when it first came out. I can also attest to Maschine being a bit less stable when it first came out. That was two years ago though....Fast forward to today, Maschine is much more useful to me and has improved my workflow.

Not trying to start anything (or perhaps I am)..but...I have seen several of your videos over the years. Your music (especially your drums) sound better when you used an MPC.

For those claiming that there is nothing special about MPC swing...you just don't know how to use an MPC. If there wasn't anything special about its swing, then there wouldn't be so many manufacturers and users created MPC-like groove templates for their software.

 

[Inverted314]

Not trying to start anything (or perhaps I am)..but...I have seen several of your videos over the years. Your music (especially your drums) sound better when you used an MPC.

For those claiming that there is nothing special about MPC swing...you just don't know how to use an MPC. If there wasn't anything special about its swing, then there wouldn't be so many manufacturers and users created MPC-like groove templates for their software.

There is nothing special about swing. Swing is a groove. Hell, you can emulate a swing just by playing if your tempo (or accurate lack there-of) is good.

 

[jahrome]

There is nothing special about swing. Swing is a groove. Hell, you can emulate a swing just by playing if your tempo (or accurate lack there-of) is good.

Which is partially true if you are playing it live or playing a drum set. But MIDI sequencers are a different story. You can set up an MPC and then set up Maschine and try to play the same groove. But the initial results will not be the same. The same is true if you set up an MPC 2000 and an MPC 3000 (or even 4000). They all behave a different way when playing and recording MIDI...even when using the same settings.

They way MPCs quantize and swing...just about anybody can record drums and come up with something decent on the first try. If you have used an MPC extensively, you know this. If not, you don't really know what you are missing. However, this is not to say that you need an MPC. If you learn a program or piece of gear well enough..you can get exactly what you need out of it. I am just saying that it takes much less effort using an MPC.

Trust me on this...you won't see any "Maschine Groove templates" out there to get that Maschine groove...just like you don't see "MV-8800 groove templates."

 

[Inverted314]

Trust me on this...you won't see any "Maschine Groove templates" out there to get that Maschine groove...just like you don't see "MV-8800 groove templates."

Sure, the MPC has become a household name in production world though. I used to have one. Although, I do wonder how many people are still buying new MPCs. I have to imagine the demand has gone down.

 

[youngjboy]

Which is partially true if you are playing it live or playing a drum set. But MIDI sequencers are a different story. You can set up an MPC and then set up Maschine and try to play the same groove. But the initial results will not be the same. The same is true if you set up an MPC 2000 and an MPC 3000 (or even 4000). They all behave a different way when playing and recording MIDI...even when using the same settings.

They way MPCs quantize and swing...just about anybody can record drums and come up with something decent on the first try. If you have used an MPC extensively, you know this. If not, you don't really know what you are missing. However, this is not to say that you need an MPC. If you learn a program or piece of gear well enough..you can get exactly what you need out of it. I am just saying that it takes much less effort using an MPC.

Trust me on this...you won't see any "Maschine Groove templates" out there to get that Maschine groove...just like you don't see "MV-8800 groove templates."

THIS

This keeps going round and round. The naysayers keep claiming that the MPC doesn't have any "magical swing"...yada yada yada. I agree it may not be magical.....however.....as a 2500 owner/user, they do have their own swing/feel, etc. I don't know how many times we go through this. People claim that all sequencers will play exact....but then contradict themselves by saying you can get the same results, or same swing, with maschine, software, etc. If they were the same, you would not have to make any adjustments as they would groove identical. Saying you can get the same results means that they are not the same out the box.

 

[Bananasass]

For those claiming that there is nothing special about MPC swing...you just don't know how to use an MPC. If there wasn't anything special about its swing, then there wouldn't be so many manufacturers and users created MPC-like groove templates for their software.

Wow. You really must know nothing about music production then, because you really can get the same swing with any type of gear. It's a rhythm.

Those templates you speak of actually prove that and from a pure perspective of rhythm it's nothing more special than a simple rhythm that sounds great.

It's a matter of timing (for which many people apparently need templates because they succk at timing) and objectively speaking the MPC is slightly flawed, which is why you'll often end up with traces of that 'signature swing' in a beat even if you do not want to.

It's easy to mistake that for a 'feature', when it's really more of a happy accident for as much as it's a true thing.

just like you don't see "MV-8800 groove templates.

That's because it's really a plain dumb idea to link a certain kind of groove to a specific piece of hardware as if it can only come from that particular machine.

The MPC swing is a dumb myth for the most part and a recording inaccuracy for as much as something different happens compared to other gear.

If you export midi from an MPC and import it into other gear and playback that rhythm, it will sound exactly the same. Hence, there's no magical sequencer in the MPC.

Many people also seem to claim it's not just the sequencer, but also the way the MPC mangles (all) sound but that obviously has no impact on any kind of swing in a rhythm.

Ergo, it's all crazy gibberish from MPC fanboys.

 

[Focused]

LOL at @Jahrome, first off I havent been using the MPC for drums since 2008. My videos really started to jump off around 2008, you have no concept of whether my drums/ beats sounded better on the MPC or not. I have just as many videos of me working in other environments (Logic, Reason, Maschine) as with the MPC on youtube.

Secondly, I never really used the MPC swing on my beats after 2005. In 2005 I stopped quantizing my drums on the MPC and began playing much more live and unquantized. The sound of my music never had anything to do with the MPC swing/quantize settings.


If you dont like how my music sounds now, its just because you dont like the conceptual direction of my music, has nothing to do with the tools I use! It has more to do with my current vision and my musical growth.

You should really get off the gear boat and get into the music, I could tell you an awful lot about why my music has changed that is irrespective of the gear I'm using. I use Maschine because its more convenient and allows me to get the job done. If you look at some interviews about me, you know where I work, so thats another part of the story.

 

[youngjboy]

LOL at @Jahrome, first off I havent been using the MPC for drums since 2008. My videos really started to jump off around 2008, you have no concept of whether my drums/ beats sounded better on the MPC or not. I have just as many videos of me working in other environments (Logic, Reason, Maschine) as with the MPC on youtube.

Secondly, I never really used the MPC swing on my beats after 2005. In 2005 I stopped quantizing my drums on the MPC and began playing much more live and unquantized. The sound of my music never had anything to do with the MPC swing/quantize settings.


If you dont like how my music sounds now, its just because you dont like the conceptual direction of my music, has nothing to do with the tools I use! It has more to do with my current vision and my musical growth.

You should really get off the gear boat and get into the music, I could tell you an awful lot about why my music has changed that is irrespective of the gear I'm using. I use Maschine because its more convenient and allows me to get the job done. If you look at some interviews about me, you know where I work, so thats another part of the story.

Very interesting. I have never used my MPC for drums as far as sampling or processing. I use my MPC mainly as a sequencer and center of my hardware. For me, i have found that when I used Cubase to sequence my outboard gear, I got inconsistent midi timing. I would get drifting here and there, and my drums seem to be much more stiff when quantized. I have a love hate affair with Cubase

When sequencing vst sounds on Cubase, i had better results. I did try Maschine at GC and was pretty pleased with the results. I have been debating it, but I am not at the point of going all soft just yet. I may pick one up anyway to play with.

 

[Inverted314]

and my drums seem to be much more stiff when quantized.

Did you put a swing on them after quantized? Naturally they would be stiff when quantized, your aligning to perfect timing.

 

[youngjboy]

Did you put a swing on them after quantized? Naturally they would be stiff when quantized, your aligning to perfect timing.

No, i usually quantize to 1/16. I don't really mess with swing settings. This is why i say that there is a little difference in feel itself. Cubase when I used it with hardware tended to be more stiff and if also drifts at times, but not the way the is okay. I just find that when using hardware, the MPC does a better job of controlling midi. I use a EMU 1820, and there is almost zero latency. Cubase and daws in general worked better for me with vst's. I can do one take and move on to the next track with hardware to hardware......software to hardware...it was taking me more takes do to the feel and timing not being what i wanted and having to re-record or manually shift notes in piano roll.

 

[flux302]

just as a quick aside in regards to the sequencing. this really come down to the ppq when not quantizing. the ppq resolution decides how "tight" the sequence is to what you played

 

[Bananasass]

No, i usually quantize to 1/16. I don't really mess with swing settings. This is why i say that there is a little difference in feel itself. Cubase when I used it with hardware tended to be more stiff and if also drifts at times, but not the way the is okay. I just find that when using hardware, the MPC does a better job of controlling midi. I use a EMU 1820, and there is almost zero latency. Cubase and daws in general worked better for me with vst's. I can do one take and move on to the next track with hardware to hardware......software to hardware...it was taking me more takes do to the feel and timing not being what i wanted and having to re-record or manually shift notes in piano roll.

It goes to show that you simply do not know how to work with Cubase then, as everything can be tweaked to your own preference with ultimately the same results.

A lot comes down to your own timing anyway and although any kind of latency issues when using software can be a pain if left 'untreated', there's really no reason why Cubase wouldn't be able to give the exact same results.

It's a silly debate. I can get the same swing playing on my SP-404 for crying out loud.

 

[youngjboy]

It goes to show that you simply do not know how to work with Cubase then, as everything can be tweaked to your own preference with ultimately the same results.

A lot comes down to your own timing anyway and although any kind of latency issues when using software can be a pain if left 'untreated', there's really no reason why Cubase wouldn't be able to give the exact same results.

It's a silly debate. I can get the same swing playing on my SP-404 for crying out loud.

And this shows you simply don't read then...

I have continuously stated that I use the MPC, but i have tried Maschine and like it. The point that i have made in regard to software is that in MY OPINION, the tools i have used were a little stiffer. As a drummer of about 10 years, i have a very good concept of what time, swing, feel, etc are. I have played drums and taken college percussion courses and can read drum sheet. I know what time is dude. Also, you don't have to swing to not be stiff. You can play a straight eighth notes groove and not be stiff, however not be playing swing eighth notes.


You proved my point with your own statements. You stated that if things were left "untreated", and if i "tweaked" settings. You just stated what i already said. My point was that with the MPC and hardware instruments, the stock timing and feel were better for me. I know that you can tweak things and play with settings. I was already doing this and it was taking me longer to do my work.

BOTTOM LINE.......I use what works for ME. A butter knife will cut steak, but a steak knife it my preference.

P.S. If you do a little research, you will see that there have been articles from Sound on Sound, etc talking about timing issues in Cubase, but......i guess they don't know anything either.

 

[Bananasass]

You proved my point with your own statements. You stated that if things were left "untreated", and if i "tweaked" settings. You just stated what i already said. My point was that with the MPC and hardware instruments, the stock timing and feel were better for me. I know that you can tweak things and play with settings. I was already doing this and it was taking me longer to do my work.

P.S. If you do a little research, you will see that there have been articles from Sound on Sound, etc talking about timing issues in Cubase, but......i guess they don't know anything either.

Sound on Sound is as limited as you are when it comes to hands-on experience and proper know-how.

You're really just incredibly lazy when you opt to only stick to stock settings.

Getting the good stuff out of your equipment takes EFFORT, even though many times a user interface can be very smooth and provide a good work-flow. Remember that this really is a timing thing. Make music breath by using a natural timing, add space before samples, mess with the almost on time kind of stuff. It's an art, not a science.

Apparently you simply refuse, but that's really not a flaw in any kind of gear nor software. In comparison, you didn't even look where you could find that steak knife of yours, but instead you probably tried the spoon. No shit it didn't work as well shirlock.

 

[youngjboy]

Sound on Sound is as limited as you are when it comes to hands-on experience and proper know-how.

You're really just incredibly lazy when you opt to only stick to stock settings.

Getting the good stuff out of your equipment takes EFFORT, even though many times a user interface can be very smooth and provide a good work-flow. Remember that this really is a timing thing. Make music breath by using a natural timing, add space before samples, mess with the almost on time kind of stuff. It's an art, not a science.

Apparently you simply refuse, but that's really not a flaw in any kind of gear nor software. In comparison, you didn't even look where you could find that steak knife of yours, but instead you probably tried the spoon. No shit it didn't work as well shirlock.

Okay man, I wil agree to disagree. No need to debate with you, good day.

 

[Xabiton]

So on to happier topics how powerful of a pc would one need to run Maschine? I am considering picking up a copy and using it soley as a drum machine that i can run samples into and create tracks with. No need for vsti and stuff like that for me