How to tune samples?

C

cyesergio

New member
I have this guitar loop and wanted to add a bass part to it, but I think the loop is a bit out of tune...How should I tune the guitar sample? I already thought of some differnt methods, like using Auto-tune (but that only works on monophonic material I think, and I want to use this method on all types of material), I also thought of using a reference tone, but that seems quite cumbersome...Any thoughts on this? How do you sample heads do this??!!?
 
There are softwares that can work out the pitch of audio or you could use a guitar tuner or chromatic tuner. Find how much you're out and make the change in percentages using tuning software.
Reference tone cds are cds full of different pure waveforms at fundamental frequencies, eg: a sine wave at 440Hz or 1kHz etc...They are generally used for calibrating tape machines, mixers etc..
 
Ok first off where can i find these reference tone cd's ? And doesn't Sound forge have the ability to create reference tones? And these guitar tuners...can u use them for other types of material? Also i read about the new Reason sampler that autodetects the pitch and even organizes them for you!!! Is there some similar stand alone software that does this?
Oh before i forget how do you compare the reference tone to the sample? Do you use midi triggers?
thnx!
 
Bang on pal, Sound Forge does exac;y that under tools-synthesis.
Create tones at the frequencies you want, you can use the chart off one of my tutorials, http://www.samplecraze.com/audio-tutorials/synthesis1.htm , and create sine tones of varying frequencies. Other waveforms can get messy and are not really used as reference as the sine is the most flowing of all the waveforms. You can then play your sample alongside the reference tone and let your ears judge if it is in tune.
The technical approach would not help you here as reference tones do not have the same harmonic content of a guitar sample, if anything, it is the opposite, you would need a number of varying tones at varying frequencies to create a guitar tone, therefore, a spectrum anayliser or frequency analyliser would not help.
I'll try and dig up a couple of softwares that I came across that can determine the pitch of a sound but, again, this would be difficult to use as the sample is a guitar being played so it will go through different pitch stages. What you need is a key analyiser and I will try to find one and post a link to it. Basically you loop the sample over as many bars as needed and let the software find the key. If FL does this then try using that. I am sure Cubase had this function but cannot be certain as I use PT and Logic, maybe the other bredren can help out here. Any notation or scoring programme will work out the key for you.
 
Thanx guys that's what I needed! Some concise advise on how to dothis stuff! Oh and Samplecrze I saw you're really into soundfont development; I wanted to create a soundfont from the out of tune sample (and I did) but couldn't use any instrument besides the loop because of the tuning!

Anyways thnx man,

p's
 
In my opinion, the absolute best way to tune samples to eachother (i.e., make their pitches fit together in a track) is to do it by ear.

Just have your guitar sample playing, then play the bass sample over it gradually adjusting the pitch until it matches (i.e., sounds in tune).

Using your ears will give you the most accurate method.
 
Yeah that's what I was gonna do, you know, just by ear, using the soundforge reference tones. But I'm kind of fumbling with the methods...should I adjust the pitch for the sample using Vienna or Soundforge? I saw that Samplecraze uses soundfont's alot, maybe he can shed some light on this. I really need the fastest most efficient method, I've got a ton of samples that need retuning!!
 
Get a guitar tuner, they cost very little, or any tuner. Plug it into the headphone socket of the sampler or pc or even the outs of your mixer(choose a sub out here). The tuner will tell you the pitch of the sample and how far out you are in terms of cents. If you need to tune a sample, the easiest way is to change the length of the loop. By adjusting the loop start and ends the loop will play at a different pitch. Eg: if you take a sample that is 6+ cents out of tune to C3, then adjust the loop length of the sample till you get a reading of C3 0,when adjusting, the smaller you make the loop length the higher the pitch, or, alternatively and depending on the sampler, you can actually use the tune facility and adjust the parameters there to fit it in to the sample length. With samples you have cycles and if you tune a sample up or down you need to be wary of the cycles, if they are not full integer cycles then you will have artifacts and click and pops.
The other way is to , again, use a tuner and adjust the fine tune coarse or fine, by adding a few cents to a sample that is less than the pitch, eg: a sample at C3 6+, in your sampler you can use the fine tune facility and subtract 6 cents from the sample, that will bring it down to C3. Basically you are changing the pitch here. All samplers have a coarse and fine tune facility.
 
Connect a jack lead from the tuner to the headphone input on your sampler or computer.
The tuner I use is a Seiko ST 757 Chromatic Tuner, cost me 50 bucks.It has input, output, key, pith and note. You can select the key and it tells you how far off you are, the note and how far that is off tune and pitch in the event that you pitch to a set figure like in concert pitch.

Here: http://www.music123.com/Seiko-ST757-i80727.music

It's less than 30 bucks now.
 
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I see your online right now...So I did a little searching...U can use the tuner with other instruments then a guitar, but what if the sample is polyphonic, and I would want to know the pitch of that sample could I use it? Cause I'm guessing, the tuner just counts the cycles...but a polyphonic sample has a way more complex waveform!
 
Are you talking about more than one note at a time or evolving complex waveforms? If it's complex waveforms then you use the key facility and make sure the waveform undulates through the frequencies but in the right key. If you're talking about more than one note then that is a different ball game.
 
my opinion:
dont mess with some software to tell u if ur sample is on key.

no ofense intended but... do u know any real musicians? theres so many cats out there now with serious music backgrounds that are in to sampled music nowadays.

get a guitar or keyboard player etc. with a good ear to come to ur studio, lay down some tracks, and while theyre at it, tell u if ur samples are on key and in tune.

really tho, u should learn to do it your self by ear.
 
There is absolutely no reason you should need to use anything other than your ears to "tune" a sample.

It literally takes about 2 seconds to do it by ear... if you have any sence of pitch, tuning by ear is faster and more accurate when it comes to matching samples pitches to eachother or matching a samples pitch to your track.

In all honesty, if you are not able to quickly and easily tune a sample by ear, I can't imagine how you would be able write melodies to your tracks or even understand what you are playing at all.

To tell you the truth, I have never even heard of anyone using a tuner to tune samples.

I am really being serious, and I mean no offence by this.
 
and to their credit, i know alot of producers that started as djs or mcs who couldnt tell u what a C7 chord is and couldnt play one on the piano, but they still know how to tune a sample by ear. like dvyce said, it seems like how would you be able to ever make melodic music if you cant do this? anyone can learn, so dont worry, it just takes time.
 
yes.... and this has nothing at all to do with knowing anything at all about music or music theory or whatever.

It is simply being able to recognize pitches... to be able to compare them to one another.

That should be the first step in creating music... before you can really create any music of your own, it would seem that you would need this first extremely basic ability.
 
i dont totally agree. even though u can do it without it, i use a little bit of theory for this.

it comes in handy with more complex melodies, and when theres an entire musical idea, bass, chords etc.

for example, say i had two samples, a jazz one and a soul one. the tempos are matched. lets say sample 1 is in C minor and sample 2 is in D minor. the first thing i would hear in my head is "they're both minor". then i would ask myself "what's the root" of both samples. then i would figure out which way to move the sample.

doing it this way enables me to save a lot of time instead of doing it trial-and-error like many producers i know.

i would say that someone who could tune samples "knows something about music", even if they dont know any theory, its one of the two most important skills in music: pitch and rythm
 
StoopidBeatz said:
i dont totally agree. even though u can do it without it, i use a little bit of theory for this.

it comes in handy with more complex melodies, and when theres an entire musical idea, bass, chords etc.

for example, say i had two samples, a jazz one and a soul one. the tempos are matched. lets say sample 1 is in C minor and sample 2 is in D minor. the first thing i would hear in my head is "they're both minor". then i would ask myself "what's the root" of both samples. then i would figure out which way to move the sample.

doing it this way enables me to save a lot of time instead of doing it trial-and-error like many producers i know.

i would say that someone who could tune samples "knows something about music", even if they dont know any theory, its one of the two most important skills in music: pitch and rythm
Click to expand...


I agree with what you are saying here...


... but I am just responding to the idea of using a guitar tuner or whatever to tune your samples rather than adjusting the pitch by ear.

Of course when you are dealing with whole musical phrases and making them fit together, you need to have some fundamental understanding of music on some level, even if it is just an intuitive knowledge.

But that is beyond the scope of the "tuner" discussion...

...although, it is a good example of a type of sample that you can't tune with a "tuner."


Please keep in mind... I am by no means saying that any idiot can tune a few samples by ear, throw them together and have a coherent song... of course making music is more complex than that.

But when we are on the level of going "Laaaaaaa" and turning a knob until the pitch is the same as another "Laaaaaaa"... that takes no real musical knowledge... that is pretty much monkey work...

... it is just like when Bugs Bunny (or Elmer Fudd?) hits the note on the piano and sings "me me me meeee, la la la laaa" to find his pitch.
 
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